Spinning Darkness Question

[Cavius The Great]

If I chose to use the alternate casting cost of Spinning Darkness and the top 2 cards of my graveyard are black, the third green and the fourth black, could I still use the alternate casting cost by removing the top 2 black then the additional black card under the green card? Or do all three of the top cards of my graveyard have to be black?

[Jacob Orlove]

Spinning Darkness
4BB   
Instant   
You may remove the top three black cards in your graveyard from the game rather than pay Spinning Darkness’s mana cost.
Spinning Darkness deals 3 damage to target nonblack creature. You gain 3 life. 

[Cavius The Great]

That really doesn't answer my question Jacob. i know what Spinning Darkness does. 

what i'm trying to ask is do the top 3 black cards in my yard have to be in exact order.

[Apollyon]

They do not. You remove the top 3 black cards in your graveyard from the game.

If they needed to be in-order, it would say so.

[Upinthe]

I've noticed that some players are very sloppy with their graveyards and they get the order mixed up all the time. Usually I don't care, but should I be calling a judge over?

[Jacob Orlove]

I've noticed that some players are very sloppy with their graveyards and they get the order mixed up all the time. Usually I don't care, but should I be calling a judge over?

Thanks to Phyrexian Furnace, graveyard order matters even in tournament games!

[Apollyon]

I've noticed that some players are very sloppy with their graveyards and they get the order mixed up all the time. Usually I don't care, but should I be calling a judge over?

Yes. While it shouldn't really matter, as they haven't made graveyard-order cards in quite a while and it's doubtful that they will again, they still need to keep their graveyard in order. Calling a judge allows the judge to educate the other player about keeping their graveyard in-order.

Intentionally not keeping the graveyard in-order is cheating and punished accordingly.

[Matt]

Also Ashen Ghoul!

[Toad]

If I recall properly, WOTC said a while ago that graveyard order wouldnt matter anymore as long as you play in a format where graveyard order doesnt matter. Extended, Standard or Block, for example (unless I missed a card). So calling the judge for graveyard orders is not really needed unless you have a very good reason to do so. Might be considered as rule cheesing otherwise.

[Apollyon]

Toad, graveyard order can help in reconstructing a turn, aside from the order-specific cards. They haven't done order-specific cards since Tempest block, AFAIK, but it still matters.

It's not rules cheesing, unless you insist that the judge give them a penalty, in which case, it becomes Unsporting Conduct. It's mostly about education, rather than punishment, in PTQ formats.

[ashiXIII]

Toad, graveyard order can help in reconstructing a turn, aside from the order-specific cards. They haven't done order-specific cards since Tempest block, AFAIK, but it still matters.

It's not rules cheesing, unless you insist that the judge give them a penalty, in which case, it becomes Unsporting Conduct. It's mostly about education, rather than punishment, in PTQ formats.

I think if a player called me over for this at a PTQ I'd give the player who's graveyard was out of order a PE-Minor (and the according Caution) and I'd give the player who called me over an Unsporting Minor (depending, of course, on the exact scenario.) It's pretty clear there's no need for a judge here other than trying to cheese penalties.

[Apollyon]

Toad, graveyard order can help in reconstructing a turn, aside from the order-specific cards. They haven't done order-specific cards since Tempest block, AFAIK, but it still matters.

It's not rules cheesing, unless you insist that the judge give them a penalty, in which case, it becomes Unsporting Conduct. It's mostly about education, rather than punishment, in PTQ formats.

I think if a player called me over for this at a PTQ I'd give the player who's graveyard was out of order a PE-Minor (and the according Caution) and I'd give the player who called me over an Unsporting Minor (depending, of course, on the exact scenario.) It's pretty clear there's no need for a judge here other than trying to cheese penalties.

Sure there is. It's about education and telling a player to keep the gamestate accurate. While it's not particularly relevant in most formats, the graveyard is still supposed to be in-order.

If anything, we should be encouraging judge calls, as the judges are there for a reason. I hear all of these stories about people who say, "I should have called a judge, and because I didn't, there was a problem."

Obviously, if there is a reason that you should USC a player for calling a judge and being a dick, do so. But don't penalize players for calling a judge if they think that something isn't right with the game or if they have a question about the rules.

[ashiXIII]

Hence my second set of parentheses. There's always exceptions to the rule. However, at a PTQ, there's no card legal where graveyard order matters. If you're called over for something like this, the player calling you over is most likely fishing for a penalty, which is obviously USC. If there was a valid concern, I'd be more than happy to address it. But for the most part, it's easy enough for a player to ask "Please keep your graveyard in the correct order." If their opponent still fails to keep it in the correct order, then there's a need for a judge.