What would you play at Rochester?

[Juggernaut GO]

The Rochester double P9 tournament is only 3 weeks away, what would you expect from the metagame?   Will less players run gifts due to the nerfing of time vault and will fish become a viable choice?  Do workshops stand a chance at this tournament that is generally dominated by drain decks?

What would you play when you go there?

[Kowal]

Ninja Sword, obv.

In all seriousness, if any of these Dark Confidant fueled fish decks are viable anywhere, this is going to be the place for.  An assload of Control Slaver and no other aggro decks to give it trouble is about as dreamy a combination as you can get.

That said I agree with Veggies--  Those decks suck.  I'll be playing with Mana Drain.

[MuzzonoAmi]

If I were going to Richmond, I'd probably play GrimLong. It's the second-best deck in the format, and I'm not good enough with CS (the best deck, IMO) to do well with it.

[TurbulentDirge]

I was considering playing Ichorid. I have tested the deck myriad times on MWS with relatively good results. I have found that the only problem for me is TPS, but that is solved by boarding in Root Maze. It seems that it is less what decks beat Ichorid, and more Can Ichorid beat crypt in games 2 and 3.

However, what do you think that deck should be outfitted with to contend with the anticipated meta?

Any advice? (Other than don't play the deck)

-DL

[Vegeta2711]

Grim Long or CS are the safe bets. Of course you can figure that everyone will be gunning for you if you play CS and almost nobody is actually confident in themselves enough to play Grim Long.

If I were going, I'd play Grim Long. Whether it'd be my own version or Steve's.

If somebody is crazy enough and actually knows how to metagame, they could play a MWS aggro deck and just hope to get paired against aggro and shitty CS players the whole way. Works for half the T16 at Waterbury every few months.

[Moxlotus]

As ridiculous as this may sound, since everybody is predicting the meta to be CS and Long (which they're probably right), suicide black and GAT seem like good choices.

[zeus-online]

Cant imagine suicide black as a good choice, but GAT seems like an interesting choice!

I'm not american, so obviosly i'm not going, but IF i were, i'd go with T1T or something like that....duress in addittion to force/drain, with a solid draw-engine seems like a good thing against the predicted field.

/Zeus

[Sean Ryan]

Confidant EBA or some other form of aggro-control

It's got game against both CS and Grimm Long.  With it's worst matchups being other aggro and Shops.  Check out the thread: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=28392.0

Sean

[Mark_Story]

I can guarantee that there will be some strange decks being piloted by Canadians as well.

[psu42]

If everyone is playing CS where is the Angry Pheldagriff saying he is gonna play Oath.

I agree though Oath usually crushes CS.

[MoxMonkey]

I'll play Vs Oath anytime.  I'll be running CS with some fun cards mainboard.

My guess on the Metagame
40% U/W Fish
30% CS
20% Random Hate decks - GAT, Burn, U/R, 4CC, Tog
5% Workshops  Aggro + Stax
5% Grim Long / IT

[Imsomniac101]

If the meta is like everyone's predicting it to be, I'd play SuiBlack or Birdshit cuz those two decks slay combo like no other deck can. That being said, if everyone thinks that combo is going to be in style, everyone and their mother will bring Fish; making it an outing for WS aggro. Birdshit can handle both those decks and combo, making it a good choice.

[Chiz]

I can guarantee that there will be some strange decks being piloted by Canadians as well.

Maybe strange decks for you, but not for us! We usually bring decks that perform very well here (I can't talk for Ontarian, but that's what we did!). When we first brought Bomberman to the USA, it was the most popular deck around here, played by almost 1/3 of the people in the tournaments... With almost all winners playing Bomberman. It's not because a deck isn't in your metagame that the deck is bad. The metagme is really different here, which lead to different decks, that sometimes are better...

I predict that their will be a lot of drain decks again... A good deck to play is Dredge (If you can play it well), since there will be almost no combo deck.

I won't be surprise to see a lot of CS Slaver in the top8, like last time. I don't know if Ugo Rivard will win his 3rd SCGP9 at Rochester, but he will be there for sure

[Whatever Works]

I'll play Vs Oath anytime.  I'll be running CS with some fun cards mainboard.

My guess on the Metagame
40% U/W Fish
30% CS
20% Random Hate decks - GAT, Burn, U/R, 4CC, Tog
5% Workshops  Aggro + Stax
5% Grim Long / IT

Your metagame prediction is sooo wrong it hurts. There has NEVER been a metagame with fish having more then 30% of field. NO WAY it will be 40%... That would mean about 80 UW fish players in a 200 person field... umm no...

If people dont expect workshop decks they are sadly mistaken. If people arent expecting at least a dozen decks featuring the new black helbent infernal tutor they will be likely in for a suprise. If people dont expect the largest turn out of Aggro decks in 3 years they will likely be mistaken.

But please. I hope everyone dedicates there decks to being able to beat CS, and runs 4 pyroclasm/massacree... and tons of graveyard hate... Let Ben Kowall play Madness and win ANOTHER tournement so type 2 players can laugh at type 1 even more.

Kyle L.

P.S. If anything. Expect everything. You know there will be Fish, CS, IT... thats obvious... But dont forget about Stax, Madness, DRAGON (which most sideboards hit with CS/Ichorid hate), etc.

[nataz]

There has NEVER been a metagame with fish having more then 30% of field. NO WAY it will be 40%

Wasn't it the first richmond that was dominated by fish and 4cC? It may not have hit 40%, but I bet it was close to 30%.

[Methuselahn]

There has NEVER been a metagame with fish having more then 30% of field. NO WAY it will be 40%

Wasn't it the first richmond that was dominated by fish and 4cC? It may not have hit 40%, but I bet it was close to 30%.

Maybe, but those 5 proxy days are over.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I'll play Vs Oath anytime.  I'll be running CS with some fun cards mainboard.

My guess on the Metagame
40% U/W Fish
30% CS
20% Random Hate decks - GAT, Burn, U/R, 4CC, Tog
5% Workshops  Aggro + Stax
5% Grim Long / IT

So you'll have anti-Oath cards for the 0% of the field that's running Oath?

[AngryPheldagrif]

And Gifts no longer exists either?

[Evenpence]

The Rochester double P9 tournament is only 3 weeks away, what would you expect from the metagame?

Slaver, IT, Friggorid, and Fish.

Will less players run gifts due to the nerfing of time vault and will fish become a viable choice?

Yes.  The gifts players have gone over to Slaver or IT.  Fish will be fine.  All of the above decks will place well, particularly Friggorid, believe it or not.  Yes, I'm saying Friggorid will do well at Rochester.

Do workshops stand a chance at this tournament that is generally dominated by drain decks?

No.  It won't be played much.  Decks will still be maindecking (and sideboarding!) hate for it, so there's no reason to play it.

What would you play when you go there?

Something that beats Slaver, IT, Friggorid, and Fish.  I refuse to play with Drains, so I have NO IDEA yet.

If I were playing to just straight up win, I would play ICBM Oath.  Fortunately, I play what I like to play, so I won't be playing it as I hate drains and I hate oaths.

[AngryPheldagrif]

. . .*calls Evenpence unintelligent*. . .Oath designed in a metagame with Stax, Slaver, and IT, a deck that includes a card I once mentioned in passing to Eric Becker (my great contribution) and was made to crush those.

I love how my esteemed teammate implies that Evenpence isn't quite the thinker, yet somehow thinks that my ICBM Oath was designed specifically to beat a deck that came out many months later than it. I claim to be a good deck builder, but I'm not quite psychic.

[edit]: I had to paraphrase what he wrote since he deleted it trying to avoid the embarassment.


On a more serious note, I would in fact play ICBM Oath were I coming up there, but it's a bit of a drive and I have a busy summer.

[Implacable]

I love how my esteemed teammate implies that Evenpence isn't quite the thinker, yet somehow thinks that my ICBM Oath was designed specifically to beat a deck that came out many months later than it. I claim to be a good deck builder, but I'm not quite psychic.

Incredibly Challenged By Mathematics.

[emidln]

I'd be playing Meandeck Gifts if I were going. Since my job demands overtime and I'm a scrubby player anyway, I figure I might as well not waste my money and sick time for the trip.

[policehq]

I'd play hate and probably lose.

 Mana:
1 Black Lotus
2 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Mountain
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
4 Plains
4 Plateau
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

Beats:
1 Genju of the Spires
3 Gorilla Shaman
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 True Believer

Burn:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Magma Jet

Disrupt:
3 Shattering Spree
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Tormods Crypt

Side:
3 Goblin Bombardment
3 Orim's Chant
2 Pyroblast
3 Sacred Ground
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Shattering Spree
1 Swords to Plowshares

I hate Massacre, though, so I would change it to R/B or R/U. All I know is that there is a lot of maindeck hate against Dragon, Ichorid, Oath, IT, Slaver, Fish, Gifts, . . .

-hq

[Ben Kossman]

I'd play Sui black or  R/G w/Artifact Mutation MD because I'm broke.

[UR]

It depends on what kind of mood I'm in that day. Right now I'm having a lot of fun with Masknaught, but because Oath is dying in the States (it looks that way form here, anyway) Dragon might become viable again and I do have a lot of experience with that.

[AngryPheldagrif]

Oath is dying in the States (it looks that way form here, anyway)

Feel free to visit the Midwest if you want to see Oath in action. My list pretty much revived it locally and now it's usually the most popular or at least successful in the metagame.

[Fred The Ev]

I would play MEANDECK GIFTS with duress moved in for MisD.... But right now It has like 2 billion proxies and in any case I can't miss school to go to some giant tournament.

[Evenpence]

. . .*calls Evenpence unintelligent*. . .Oath designed in a metagame with Stax, Slaver, and IT, a deck that includes a card I once mentioned in passing to Eric Becker (my great contribution) and was made to crush those.

I love how my esteemed teammate implies that Evenpence isn't quite the thinker, yet somehow thinks that my ICBM Oath was designed specifically to beat a deck that came out many months later than it. I claim to be a good deck builder, but I'm not quite psychic.

[edit]: I had to paraphrase what he wrote since he deleted it trying to avoid the embarassment.


On a more serious note, I would in fact play ICBM Oath were I coming up there, but it's a bit of a drive and I have a busy summer.

I don't get team ICBM.  You guys seem to argue with each other alot, as well as with other people.

Anyway, I would play your deck because it schools Slaver and has alot of game against combo.  That's going to be half the metagame, if not more, right there.  With the board, your bad matchups become fine and you'll win if you pilot the deck.

It's by far, IMO, the best metagame decision for Rochester.

[policehq]

Anyway, I would play your deck because it schools Slaver and has alot of game against combo.  That's going to be half the metagame, if not more, right there.  With the board, your bad matchups become fine and you'll win if you pilot the deck.

It's by far, IMO, the best metagame decision for Rochester.

I don't exactly know since I play sanctioned, un-hyped tournaments, but isn't that a self-defeating statement? I mean, people accused Steven of "distorting the metagame" with his articles to play a certain deck when he would pilot another. If everyone goes into this saying Oath is the best deck, wouldn't someone just meta-game against Oath?

EDIT: I fully understand that this is hard to do, since the anti-Oath deck would also have to beat the match-ups that Oath beats. Still I feel like some player could come up with something, having this large card pool to work with that we have and all.

I have fun with MaskNought and Sensei's Tops, but I don't think I'd play it (this is RE: UR) simply because I felt Oath wouldn't show up.

-hq

[AngryPheldagrif]

. . .*calls Evenpence unintelligent*. . .Oath designed in a metagame with Stax, Slaver, and IT, a deck that includes a card I once mentioned in passing to Eric Becker (my great contribution) and was made to crush those.

I love how my esteemed teammate implies that Evenpence isn't quite the thinker, yet somehow thinks that my ICBM Oath was designed specifically to beat a deck that came out many months later than it. I claim to be a good deck builder, but I'm not quite psychic.

[edit]: I had to paraphrase what he wrote since he deleted it trying to avoid the embarassment.


On a more serious note, I would in fact play ICBM Oath were I coming up there, but it's a bit of a drive and I have a busy summer.

I don't get team ICBM.  You guys seem to argue with each other alot, as well as with other people.

Anyway, I would play your deck because it schools Slaver and has alot of game against combo.  That's going to be half the metagame, if not more, right there.  With the board, your bad matchups become fine and you'll win if you pilot the deck.

It's by far, IMO, the best metagame decision for Rochester.

We may have a team, but I'm always a loose cannon. I couldn't care less who's insulting who, but cheap shots with no basis or backup are a foul in my book. I'm much more happy when it's me versus everyone else. Increases the prize payout for me.

I'll have a thread up on Oath in the next day or 2, so y'all can argue it out then.

And for the record, Oath is infinitely harder to hate than people think. With SSS it's just that much worse now.