[Article] The Evolution of UbaStax

[dicemanx]

I agree with Colby that Shop decks should run a Trini, as at the least it stops YawgWill, and at best it stunts mana development until you can cast and activate your game ending Cap. It's very much like the Crypt in some respects.

I must say though I'm very surprised that the Smokestacks have been dropped altogether. That is a very fearsome card, especially turn 1, and how much more valuable are cards like Tangle Wire or CoW if you run next to no pressure. The latest build has 1 huge pressure card - Cap. Aside from that, you have stall cards (CotV, Shards, Wires, Crypts etc). That is frankly not a very fearsome line up for a control deck, even if you're temporarily keeping something like a YawgWill or Welder at bay. The deck just screams for 8 pressure cards in the form of Cap + Stack or at the very least Cap + Juggernaut. More pressure allows for the use of Mana Crypt, which is a huge card.

For example, walk me through a typical win against Gifts, CS, or IT that doesn't involve drawing a Cap. If you're able to find one in the first few turns then OK, but does the whole game plan revolve around that card? Are all of the other components merely stall until the Cap resolves and gets activated? I'm very skeptical because this deck has departed from Colby's decklists at Richmond which I actually liked, and because this deck has yet to see actual tourney play. I'm sure you guys test your decks online often, but it is not the same as proving it at actual events. What i see here is answers.dec, which doesn't inspire confidence in me when there's no card drawing (Bazaar doesn't count when it matters) or tutoring effects.

Regarding Leyline of the Void: I am convinced this card has no business appearing in any main deck except for one deck: Ichorid. Being forced to run 4 or 0 is bad enough, but also having its playability contingent on (bad) mulliganing decisions makes it quite inflexible despite the gain over Crypt. By comparison, some of Crypt's apparent weakness are illusory - Null rod and CotV, for example, don't "stop" Crypt. Can you tell why I say this?

Edit:

I also am in support of Breathweapon here. His post was scrutinizing your list. That you both got upset illustrated an issue on both of your ends, not his. I think he was ultimately wrong on many points, but that is the point behind these forums. We don't talk *at* anyone here. There aren't "proven" lists here unless the deck consistently t8s. He raised many valid concerns, including the addressing of the highly contentious statement that this is supposed to be an evolution of the Stax archetype. I am not trying to play favorites here - I treat everyone equally, and if I feel you're wrong, then I'll say so and give my reasons. Let's just focus on the brainstorming and the theoretical part here, but ultimately the proof will lie in the events that this deck will play in.

[Evenpence]

Peter, my current build isn't like Yespuhyren's current builds - it's been much closer to the lists and ideas that you've sent me than Yespuhyren's.

I can send you a list, but it's more of a concept.  Team Blitzkrieg has been working much more on Legacy lately, rather than Vintage which has definitely showed in the lack of our development, particularly with Ubastax.  I haven't worked on a serious Ubastax variant in about three weeks, although the version that I ended with was extremely favorable against the field.

I didn't have ICBM Oath to worry about though.  Ugh.

[yespuhyren]

That you both got upset illustrated an issue on both of your ends, not his.

The thing is, though, I didn't get upset because he criticized the deck.  I got upset because he was acting like a smartass.  Saying things like "I'll assume 2x wasteland is a typo" and "You've taken the deck out behind the wood shed and shot it"

That is what made me mad.  He acts like he knows everything.

@Nataz

One's thoughts are only as good as one's language.

Now I know where this deck should be categorized, right along with Workshop Slaver and Cerebral Assassin.

Exactly.

@Evenpence

I'd go so far to say I wouldn't consider any deck with out FoW unless it had access to Leyline of the Void MD or SB for serious tournament play, it really is that good.

I don't even know what to say here.  Sure, the card is good, but it isn't as good as you are making it out to be.

@Wolven

You want Ensnaring Bridge in the SB, it's amazing.

Not against Oath it isn't.  Well it is.  But that is if it stays in play.

[BreathWeapon]

Thanks for the support DiceManX,

I can admit it when I'm wrong, and I was wrong about a number of points I made about this deck (tho' I swear you guys should seriously reconsider Leyline of the Void. I know it sounds bad in theory, but it has been amazing in practice). The problem tho', as I see it, is that the article is misleading, because this deck's strategy is nothing like Stax's. Thus, I came to the conclusion that this deck is essentially the same as Workshop Slavery and Cerebral Assassin, it is a deck that uses a number of soft lock cards to buy time to resolve an immediately game ending card.

So, instead of building Cap.dec out of UbaStax, I think it would be a better idea to build a deck completely around Jester's Cap, which seems to be what this deck is becoming. As long as you use Mindslaver and Darksteel Colossus to back up Cap for when its time window closes, I think you'd have a reasonable strategy on your hands.

@ Tormod's Crypt,

I'm guessing it's because Tormod's Crypt functions as a number of Time Walks until Null Rod or Pithing Needle is found? That said, I'm not certain I agree with that estimation, because Chalice 0 on the play along with Null Rod, Pithing Needle and Oxidize out of the SB gives the advantage to Ichorid a lot of the time. I'm not saying Ichorid can't be hated out, but that deck packs a ton of disruption pre and post board.

@ Ensnaring Bridge,

You can say that about any SB card against Oath. Do you have a better suggestion?

[MaxxMatt]

Gamble – This card has some great potential, but it fails in a few places. First of all, it has the deadly casting cost of one, which is a big problem for this deck most of the time, and it rarely makes exceptions for this. It also will often end up with you discarding the card that you tutored up, because Uba Mask and Bazaar will both contribute to you having a very low hand side. Because of this, as cool as Gamble is, it just doesn't make it.

R (1), Sorcery
Search your library for a card, put that card into your hand, then discard a card at random. Then shuffle your library.

I would like to know if Gamble have been tested or only theorically analyzed.
You could play 3 or 4 of them and then minimizing the number of maindeck *solutions*.
I usually don't regret too much if the card choosen got discarded, because the deck usually abuse of his hand as much as his grave.

More importanti, with them and Bazaars/Welders you can achieve with good percentages, CoW+Strip locks or Welders+Specific-Bombs recursions

Analyzing a bit  deeper your deck (really good even after a first glance), while CoWs, CotVs, Bazaars,Welders and Wires should be played in multiples because they are the *real* skeleton of the deck, I suppose that you are not going to like Mazes, T.Crypts, Shards in any *single* matchup, because they have been added for specific reasons and not for general porpouse ones.

With Gambles, I think that you can rise the number of singletons: you would add to the deck a good additional flexibility.
I don't know if you would like to play with them, *but* a single Null Rod or a single Trinisphere or a single Memory Jar or a single Sundering Titan or other spells that I'm not able to think at now, can be fetched and used more frequently thanks to Gambles.


If you are going to win, you usually resolved CoWs, Bazaars, Jesters or Welders. With this board situation, Gamble is nearly as powerful as Demonic Tutor: if you hold the card in your hand, you DemonicTutored for something and you achieved a possible CoW/Welders recursion while if you unluckily discard the tutored card, you can swap it in again too.

As you clearly stated, the only regret that I have, while playing with them and CotVs, consist of the possibility of being unable to resolve Welders AND Gambles after an *automatic CotV=1*.
Analyzing *when* you are going to blindly and proactively play CotV=1, I think that we can realize a couple of additional things.
In any single matchup, which you are going to resolve CotV=1 *before* Welders/Gambles, this play is by far, your best surviving option, so the risk of playing with a couple of spell that can conflict themselves isn't that high.
Against a not known opponent, you could resolve at least a single Welder or a Gamble before stopping their own CotV=1.
Again, a lot of different initial hand's configurations can force you play the entire game opposite ways.

How often, proactively playing CotV=1 before anything else, is better than playing Gambles/Welders?
I think that you would use them blindly only against speedup Comboes decks and maybe, Ichorid or BrassmanGiftsControl and only if you know exatcly what are they playing.
In any other situations, the possible differences between decks and players' style, may force you to wait playing CotV=1, usually optimizing both Welders/Gambles/additional bombs.

If Gamble would have *singularily* optimized Welders or CoWs, I would have not recommended you play them, because a single hate spell would have stopped you from winning.

On the other hand, your deck consist of Artifacts, Lands and Creatures.
CoWs would let you freely replay discarded lands (and, more important, the tutored ones would have a deadly impact on the game for your opponent).
Welders would let you freely replay discarded artifacts ( usually restricted ones or deadly ones ).

From this perspective, a quick Gamble ( a lot of cards into hand ) can be really better than Demonic Tutor, because it have  a double effect in it: a quick one ( the card itself ) a slow one ( the recursion ).

While writing, I thought a little more about *what* can be tutored that could switch the game in your favour.
Black Lotus, MW, Academy, CotVs and any other possible restricted card addition/target would be really game breaking.

This is a possible maindeck cards' pool

-1 Granite Shard
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Tormod's Crypt
-1 Uba Mask
-1 Barbarian Ring
+3 Gamble
+1 Trinisphere
+1 Memory Jar / Sundering Titan / Other card.

Regards,
MaxxMatt

[yespuhyren]

@ Ensnaring Bridge,

You can say that about any SB card against Oath. Do you have a better suggestion?

I have always felt that Goblin Bombardment is the strongest for the sole reason that Enchantments are the hardest to deal with.  Their only weapon against this is Pithing Needle, where they side in 2x Needle.

[Harlequin]

In reguards to gamble targets, I would think that #1 on the list would be stripmine.  Unless you're in game 2 against a deck that likely has GY hate, it seems like even if you end up discarding Strip w/o crucible on the board ... haveing strip in the yard gives you quicker access to it than having strip in the deck.  Also you do not run the risk of UBAing away your strip because you've played a land for turn and used Bazaar.

[yespuhyren]

Strip mine would almost definitely be the #1 target in every situation.  The issue is discarding something you need, as well as conflicting with Chalice@1.  When I tested this out, that was the biggest hamper.

[AngryPheldagrif]

So are you planning on bringing this to Rochester or GenCon or anything, have you actually been winning local tournaments with this, or are you basing all this off hypotheticals and 'testing?'

Could you give us some reasons on why we'd want to play this deck at a major tournament?

[Whatever Works]

I have to agree with Breathweopon on the fact that your decks disruption is fairly week in the combo matchup. I wouldnt go so far to say that your conceeding the matchup, but I do feel its not a strong point by any means.

You mentioned that you had 15 maindeck cards, but most of the cards you listed I would be hard pressed to call true disruption cards to combo.

-Tangle Wire. To a combo deck this isnt really great disruption. Especially since most combo decks can play most of their spells as instants, cast rebuild, or hold there moxes back. You play tangle wire... they tap down 2 lands... then drop mox jet, ritual, ritual, lotus petal, intuition, etc. etc.
-Trinisphere is just toooo good not to run. It just wins games. Its is against combo... what Library is in the control mirror...
-Jesters Cap to me is a much stronger card in the control matchup vs. decks like gifts then it is in the combo matchup where it proves to be just a little to slow.

Overall, It was a great article. I agree 100% that Pyrostatic Pillars are amazing and I personally believe they should be at least a 3 of maindeck in the current Control Heavy metagame.

Kyle L.

[BreathWeapon]

I'm going to go post a Cap.dec design I came up with last night in Improvement, so I don't side track this discussion. Do come over and check it out tho', I think I'm on to something innovative.

[yespuhyren]

So are you planning on bringing this to Rochester or GenCon or anything, have you actually been winning local tournaments with this, or are you basing all this off hypotheticals and 'testing?'

I was planning on making Rochester, and there, yes, I would have brought this.  I recently found out that I will be out of town, and therefore will not be able to attend.

I live in Canada, and it is tough to get to the states.  Also, I go to school, as well as work about 30-40 hours a week.  Although I make tournaments when I can, I haven't been able to get to many tournaments at all recently.  The only tournament I took a list of The Jester I was happy with to, I did T8.  Then I lost the timed T8. 

The "testing" I do is online against TMD'ers and other people as well.  You can ask some of our fellow TMD'ers like sa-x and Lotushead about my caliber of play or the deck's power if you doubt its strength.

I do not by any means believe this is the best deck in the format, nor do I believe there is a best deck in the format.  I believe that other than Oath, it has a lot of good matchups, and can beat any deck in the field, given the chance.

[The Chosen One]

yespuhren, with the list you have posted on this page, how have your matchups been? do you miss the extra wastes? is maze that good? have you missed crypt/smokestack?

[yespuhyren]

I have changed the list up again to re-test with Wastelands, doing

-2 Maze
+2 Wasteland
-1 Mountain
+1 Trinisphere

Although I do like the changes to an extent, I still don't like the vulnerability against Tinker/Colossus.  The list with Mazes at least gave me a higher chance of saving myself, as digging with a Bazaar to find it against decks packing Colossus has been a good strategy.

@Smokestack/Crypt

I really don't miss Smokestack, but of course I miss Mana Crypt.  The card is great.  But without Smokestack or an extremely fast win condition, there is no way I can justify playing Mana Crypt, because statistically, I will take more than 20 damage from the crypt before I can kill the opponent.

With only 4 welders to remove it when life gets too low, it is just not worth it.

[BreathWeapon]

One of the things I've come to appreciate about the deck list is that even if Cap doesn't resolve on the first few turns and remove the opponent's win conditions, you don't just fold up your tent and go home. You can still fight Stax in the war on permanents with Crucible, Uba and Welder gaining an advantage as well as lock them out of the game with Mask/Welder. That said, how realistic are your chances against Fish with Tangle Wire and Granite Shard if the game goes long? Have you considered adding a Mindslaver or Karn to give you more outs? Karn would also solve the Mana Crypt problem.