Utility cards in Gifts

[CrashTest]

The removal of Time Vault from most Gifts lists did not damage the deck extensively, but there definitely has been a lot less talk on the deck in recent times. Darksteel Colossus/Tendrils kill seems to work fine, and my question here is what utility cards belong in this deck, more specifically the Brassman gifts type builds.

    Here are some of the possible choices for maindeck utility. I will make a few brief points, and hopefully people can let their opinion be known on whether they feel these cards deserve a maindeck spot or not.

Rack and Ruin - This card has been used for a while now maindeck, as it is very strong against Stax. The question is, how useful is this slot now that Stax seems to have recently declined a bit in popularity? It can be a dead card in many situations, but it is definitely a bomb when it is useful.

Darkblast - This card is definitely strong against the many 1/1's in the format, but it also has the potential to be a dead card, and perhaps Pithing Needle may serve the needs of neutralizing Welder/Shaman a bit better.

Tormod's Crypt - This card has been used moreso in Control Slaver due to more recursion via Welder, but I think 1 maindeck in Gifts may be useful depending on the metagame. Yawgmoth's Will is stopped by this, and to a lesser degree it stops some combo decks that rely on the graveyard.

Pithing Needle - The usefulness of this card can vary, but 2-3 can be very strong maindeck. It is not a dead card because you can pitch it to Thirst for Knowledge, and it deals with a wide array of threats - from Welders, to Wasteland.

Merchant Scroll - Meandeck Gifts runs 4, and Brassman builds have occasionally run 1. It is a good card in this deck, but I wonder if running just one really makes much of a difference. It is another tutor, sure- but it depends on what it is replacing in the deck.

Extra Gifts Ungiven - Once again, MD runs 4, and Brassman builds usually 2-3. I liked 2 for a long time, but 3 seems to be a good number. You can ditch it early to FoW, and still have 2 more later on.

Fact or Fiction - Many builds have run this, and it can be useful, although I think Gifts is generally much better. I am still not sure on this one.

[magus888]

I think Fire/Ice is much better than darkblast in Gifts. It kills 2/2s, 2 1/1s, taps opposing 11/11s and can be fetched by Merchant Scroll.

[Imsomniac101]

I think the utility slot is currently taken up by Pithing Needle. With the recent meta shift, I think it would be prudent to trim 1 or 2 and replace them with Duress. Maybe even follow Dicemanx's lead and relegate the secondary win condition to the board for extra duressing power.

[CrashTest]

Duress is another card that should be added to the list of utility cards. It can definitely be very powerful. What's the optimal number to run? 2-3? 4 may just be too many, as you may have to change the Mana Base up from 2 Underground Sea to possibly 3 to help support the extra black.

  Strip Mine is another card. Currently I run it in lieu of a Snow-covered Island or my 5th Basic island. It is good when you draw it, but I do not think it has a great impact since it is only 1 and you likely won't tutor for it when you have Ancestral Recall/Tinker to get.

[Liam-K]

The two I would consider most seriously are Mox Monkey and Tormod's Crypt, not neccecarily in that order.  Both are a strong gambit when competing for the control role, and both interfere with welding.  Crypt pitches to TFK and is always relevant against yawgwill, whereas monkey is a bigger early game advantage and makes more tempo.

Duress is good too.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Has no one here heard of rebuild?  It functions like rack of ruin often, but is on color and doesn't have to be a dead draw.

Echoing truth is also quite strong for randomw MD hate (pyrostatic pillar, meddling mage, choke, etc), and chain of vapors (if it's appropriate for your build) is solid and enables tendrils.

I'd consider merchant scroll a tutor, FoF card advantage and Gifts both, but none of them are utility exactly.

[policehq]

Something that may or may not be of note regarding Darkblast versus Fire/Ice and/or Pithing Needle:
Since you aren't playing Goblin Welder, Darkblast is the one of these three cards that you can lose in a Gifts Ungiven pile or discard for Thirst for Knowledge and still get back.

RE: Rebuild - I thought this was pretty standard fare when Merchant Scroll and Tendrils are part of the game-plan.

-hq

[CrashTest]

Yeah, I assumed Rebuild is already in most builds due to the Tendrils plan.

       I am not sure if I'd want extra bounce in the form of Rushing River, Chain of Vapors, etc. It may be superflous if one already has a Rebuild along with Rack and Ruin, Pithing Needle, and other answers.

      Fire/Ice is decent, but Darkblast can come back, which is nice versus multiple 1/1's.

[Draven]

An awesome thing about Darkblast is pre Will, it acts like an Ancestral. Just yesterday while playtesting, I was able to dredge a few times prior to the Will, just to dump more goodness in the yard.

About Fact or Fiction vs Gifts: Sometimes the sheer card advantage FoF offers is better than the Gifts, expecially if you arn't ready to win. There have been numerous times I have Fof'd before a Gifts, just to what options are available. If you see 2 of your win cards in the FoF, it makes your gifts even stronger...

Duress is such love/hate card. I love to see Duress, but I hate fetching Undergrounds. Gifts really needs Mana Drain to explode, and Duress works against that plan. (usually)

Just a side note, I don't think I would MD R&R. It is an awefully narrow card for a deck like Gifts. It already has so many "force mulligans" Every single "win" card sucks if it is your opening hand:

Yawg's Will
Rebuild
Burning Wish
Recoup
Darksteel Colossus

All very horrible in the opening hand. I wouldn't want to see another card in this list. Well, great post. I love Gifts and am always happy to see people talking about the deck.

[CrashTest]

Draven, what you mention about FoF is true. A lot of times, you have the Mana for Gifts early on, but you just aren't ready to win yet. In times like these, FoF is definitely better because you can net yourself some more card advantage without having to waste your Gifts searching for bombs. If you have 4 Gifts, like MD Gifts does, then you can use it like a tutor for smaller stuff instead of just a card to get the combo pieces.

         Also, sometimes there is some talk about Library of Alexandria, but I think it  should definitely be in the decklist. In the mirror it is just massive card advantage, and the deck's mana base is fairly stable as it is.

Here is a decklist that may be viable now. It is basically Ben Kowal's list from the last SCG, but removing some stuff like Time Vault/Flame Fusillade and adding a Rebuild and Burning Wish. Let's see what people think about this list, or what people would change. Let's keep it to the maindeck for now, as the sideboard is a whole new world of possibilities.


Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creatures
1 Darksteel Colossus

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Darkblast
4 Force Of Will
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rack And Ruin
4 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rebuild

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Burning Wish
1 Imperial Seal
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
4 Island

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

   The tentative cards that may be changed in my opinion are as follows:

1 Strip Mine - Perhaps adding a Snow-covered Island may be better in this slot, I need to test more before I can be sure
2 Pithing Needle - A lot of people played either 3 or none for a while, I think 2 may be a good number.
1 DarkBlast - This may be superflous, but if Control Slaver is popular again for the upcoming tournaments, it may be very useful
1 Rack and Ruin - May be a better sideboard slot rather than maindeck
1 Tormod's Crypt - I am still not sure if this deserves a maindeck slot in Gifts, it will depend on the metagame


 And cards that were not added, but may be added:

1 Fact or Fiction - Good card advantage, and you can drop it asap unlike Gifts where you sometimes have to wait.
1 Merchant Scroll - A pretty good tutor, I think it would not hurt to add this
1 Juzam Djinn - 5/5 for four Mana, beats! (Just kidding on this one..I think)
1 Fire/Ice - I prefer Darkblast because it has more synergy with the graveyard
     

[ZeroGs]

      My thoughts of darkblast while it is true about its synergy with YawgWin it's not necesary, a single gifts should already put your graveyard in a game winning state. Therefore, it not being able to be pitched to FoW, tapping a trinisphere, tapping a colosus, killing a 1/1 or 2/2, awesomeness when they have drain online and you EOT tap their 2nd blue(drawing a card!!!), you can even get it with a merchant scroll(some of these have already been mentioned, just to recap). The usefulness of F/I FAR outweighs that of darkblast. IMHO

[Draven]

      My thoughts of darkblast while it is true about its synergy with YawgWin it's not necesary, a single gifts should already put your graveyard in a game winning state. Therefore, it not being able to be pitched to FoW, tapping a trinisphere, tapping a colosus, killing a 1/1 or 2/2, awesomeness when they have drain online and you EOT tap their 2nd blue(drawing a card!!!), you can even get it with a merchant scroll(some of these have already been mentioned, just to recap). The usefulness of F/I FAR outweighs that of darkblast. IMHO

Darkblast shines in the CS match because if they counter Darkblast, guess what? It is coming back next turn. If they are wasting hteir counters on Darkblast, and you are "wasting" your counters on their bombs, I think you are in pretty good shape.

I agree 100%, F/I is more versitle, however, Darkblast is inevitable.

[ZeroGs]

Darkblast shines in the CS match because if they counter Darkblast, guess what? It is coming back next turn. If they are wasting hteir counters on Darkblast, and you are "wasting" your counters on their bombs, I think you are in pretty good shape.
I agree 100%, F/I is more versitle, however, Darkblast is inevitable.

      I as well agree with you on that, I have always thought when having these types of discussions it really depends on what the game state is, what will be an amazing card in one situation may not be as impressive in a another. F/I will be more usefull in more situations than darkblast. Now when we are talking about the CS matchup, gamestates, considering control vs. control, and which of the two decks shine at a later game point. I think by the time you get rid of welders after a countered darkblast it will only give the CS player more of an advantage in the matter of advancing his/her manabase. This is something you dont want to happen, so let them counter your F/I one less counter you have to worry about when going savage with gifts, like I said against cs you will want to win before they get a chance to hardcast slaver at which point they will not need welder to begin with. Most of the guys here who play CS will tell you that welder isn't the strongest card in the deck, might even be sided out and then you have REB's to deal with.


my two cents....

[CrashTest]

What does everyone think about the decklist I posted above? What changes would you make?

       I am going to start testing it more extensively, but I feel I may cut the maindeck Rack and Ruin.

[dicemanx]

I don't like 6 things about it:

1) No Duress, at a point in time when Duress is arguably strongest

2) No Yawgmoth's Will #2 (aka Skeletal Scrying)

3) Inclusion of Vamp and Imperial Seal - I could understand these cards in Flame-Vault based Gifts, but in GiftsX style decks, I think they are weaker compared to further redundancy offered by more draw spells, or at least 1 Merchant Scroll (which isn't card disadvantage, its blue, and maximizes your Recoup as do Duresses)

4) No Swamp means that its better to go 2 Delta 3 Strand (or even 1/4). Otherwise, you risk getting shorted by Needle.

5) I've felt for a long time that Petal needs to be in this deck over Mana Vault.

6) No Juzam. That card is an autowin. Have you seen the picture? Its insane.

[Machinus]

1) No Duress, at a point in time when Duress is arguably strongest

3) Inclusion of Vamp and Imperial Seal - I could understand these cards in Flame-Vault based Gifts, but in GiftsX style decks, I think they are weaker compared to further redundancy offered by more draw spells, or at least 1 Merchant Scroll (which isn't card disadvantage, its blue, and maximizes your Recoup as do Duresses)

I agree on Duress and Seal, however I don't think cutting Vamp is the right play. If you are running duresses and you have already made a higher committment to black, vamp is one of the strongest cards you can run in this deck.

[pyr0ma5ta]

6) No Juzam. That card is an autowin. Have you seen the picture? Its insane.

ROFL.  Board 4 Juzams in your Gifts at Rochester and t8.  I'll be your loveslave for life.

Imp Seal is a Recoup target, and if you're going to run Duress, Seal, Vamp, and DT alongside Derfderfyawg, then you probably want a basic Swamp.  Lotus Petal needs to be in the deck as a 3rd black source to Gifts for, and it's also an artifact to pitch to Thirst.  Arguably, in today's metal, RNR is a pretty poor choice maindeck.  I'd rather have the Petal or Vault, or both. 

[dicemanx]

1) No Duress, at a point in time when Duress is arguably strongest

3) Inclusion of Vamp and Imperial Seal - I could understand these cards in Flame-Vault based Gifts, but in GiftsX style decks, I think they are weaker compared to further redundancy offered by more draw spells, or at least 1 Merchant Scroll (which isn't card disadvantage, its blue, and maximizes your Recoup as do Duresses)

I agree on Duress and Seal, however I don't think cutting Vamp is the right play. If you are running duresses and you have already made a higher committment to black, vamp is one of the strongest cards you can run in this deck.

Well, given that I felt quite good about getting rid of that Vamp in running Gifts for over a year, I definitely think it was the right decision to make.

Counterintuitive perhaps (because vamp adds much flexibility), but Gifts is a beast that benefits from a high amount of card draw redundancy and often prefers to draw many cards instead of deciding what to tutor for specifically - too often in the early stages there's nothing specific that you need. You just want to draw cards, and quickly. The deck already runs tons of tutors anyways, and you have to be careful about maintaining a nice balance between card draw, disruption, and tutoring.

[Pitlord]

I really think Fact or Fiction is nutty in gifts. There are some cases where you drain something, but don't have quite enough to really do a lot with gifts until next turn or the turn after. Also, it come up were you drain something because it is a must counter, and you really have no board position, where gifts is very weak.

Also, I think duress and darkblast are both very solid slots and would keep at least 2 duress and 1 blast mainboarded.

The Rack and Ruin seems a little weak, especially since workshop decks are in a lull right now. R&R is a good card for the main deck, but I don't think that right now is the perfect time for them.

Pithing needle is amazing, but is 2 too many? Would a t-crypt, slaver style, be better than running the second and sometimes dead needle or si the risk of having t-crypt be dead not worth the losing the flexibility of needle?

[CrashTest]

I don't like 6 things about it:

1) No Duress, at a point in time when Duress is arguably strongest

2) No Yawgmoth's Will #2 (aka Skeletal Scrying)

3) Inclusion of Vamp and Imperial Seal - I could understand these cards in Flame-Vault based Gifts, but in GiftsX style decks, I think they are weaker compared to further redundancy offered by more draw spells, or at least 1 Merchant Scroll (which isn't card disadvantage, its blue, and maximizes your Recoup as do Duresses)

4) No Swamp means that its better to go 2 Delta 3 Strand (or even 1/4). Otherwise, you risk getting shorted by Needle.

5) I've felt for a long time that Petal needs to be in this deck over Mana Vault.

6) No Juzam. That card is an autowin. Have you seen the picture? Its insane.

    Lotus Petal definitely should be in there, I agree. 2/3 on the fetches as well.

           I am going to consider cutting Imperial Seal, but I am not sure about Vampiric Tutor. I think it is too strong to cut. I am going to test without Rack and Ruin, and add a merchant scroll and 2-3 Duresses as well to see what happens.

        Do you think that I will need a basic swamp if I go with 2-3 Duress, together with the Vampiric/Yawg Will/Demonic Tutor? (And maybe Skeletal Crying)

       Actually, I will need 18 swamps because I am adding 4x Juzam maindeck, and 4x Hymn to Tourach. And some Demonic Hordes with 2-3 Sinkholes. Ah, the good ol' days.

Here is an updated list:

-1 Rack and Ruin
-1 Darkblast
-1 Imperial Seal

+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Merchant Scroll
+1 Fact or Fiction

And changed the fetch ratio to 2/3.

Skeletal Crying could replace a possible Thirst For Knowledge, and I am not sure what I'd take out for 2-3 Duress. Perhaps the Fact or Fiction, and the Vampiric if I had to, but I really hesitate to remove the Vampiric Tutor at the moment without testing it further.

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal

Artifact Creatures
1 Darksteel Colossus

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Fact or Fiction

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Burning Wish
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
4 Island

Lands
3 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

[dicemanx]

I am going to consider cutting Imperial Seal, but I am not sure about Vampiric Tutor. I think it is too strong to cut. I am going to test without Rack and Ruin, and add a merchant scroll and 2-3 Duresses as well to see what happens.

Vamp is OK, but you might find it really isn't that critical.

        Do you think that I will need a basic swamp if I go with 2-3 Duress, together with the Vampiric/Yawg Will/Demonic Tutor? (And maybe Skeletal Crying)

I've run a basic Swamp in many events, although since Wasteland frequency seems to be diminishing, I might opt to return to 3 Underground Seas and 0 Swamps. I might do that anyways even if the Fish counts go up.

       Actually, I will need 18 swamps because I am adding 4x Juzam maindeck, and 4x Hymn to Tourach. And some Demonic Hordes with 2-3 Sinkholes. Ah, the good ol' days.

Transformational Sui board is obviously the next logical step!

Skeletal Crying could replace a possible Thirst For Knowledge, and I am not sure what I'd take out for 2-3 Duress. Perhaps the Fact or Fiction, and the Vampiric if I had to, but I really hesitate to remove the Vampiric Tutor at the moment without testing it further.

Aside from Vamp, I've stopped liking the FoF. Too often it's a mere 2 for 1, and tends to be inferior to Gifts Ungiven itself.  If the choice came down to FoF vs Scrying, then YawgWill#2 wins.

[DuKeLiO]

Another utility card in Gifts can be Spell Snare. In May 20th I win a Mox Pearl with a Gifts build with 2 Spell Snare maindeck. It is a very flexble card. It counters a lot of good cards almost in every matchup. You obtain counter advantage in the mirror protecting your card draw from Mana Drain for only U, you also counters Oath, Mana Leak and Null Rod in the Oath matchup, also Null Rod, Daze and some 2 mana guys vs fish. Stax is the less useful matchup, but it counters Sphere of Resistance and Chalice for 1. For reference my decklist:

4 MD
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst
3 Gifts
2 Spell Snare
Mystical
Ancestral
Walk
Scroll
Rebuild
Tinker
FoF
Demonic T
Yawgmoth's Will
Burning Wish
Recoup
2 Pithing Neddle
1 E.E.
1 Colossus
10 Artifact Mana
Tolarian
LoA
2 Sea
3 Volcanic
4 Fetch
4 Island

It proved to be very useful in the tournament and playtesting.
Also I agree with dicemanx, V.Tutor are a powerful card but you do not need it in Gifts. I only would play it in a meta with a lot of random aggro to be sure I find my tinker to win easy. Versus Stax and control i always side out Mystical Tutor and if I were running Vamp it would be and easy card to side out in every matchup where card advantage were an issue. In gifts you want card-draw and then combo out.
A lot of players removed the E.E from his maindeck but I have find it a very versatile card versus a lot of random stuff, from chalice of the void, planar void, Phyrexian Dreadnought, moxen on a light-land hand from my oponent and some others situations.
Apoloyces for my bad english, I wait you can understand that I try to tell you.

[Pitlord]

I think dropping the vampiric tutor seems like a decent choice, as long as it is for scrying. Skeletal scrying lets you get a larger mass of cards, instead of cloggin your draw with a tutored for card. Scrying is good as a 1 or 2 of, but I think that more than 2 is too redundent, resulting in drawing scryings where you have nothing to remove.

Also, I would not remove fact or fiction unless it was for another gifts ungiven. Fact is a huge boost, and can also help fuel scrying with the cards pitched. Fact is a great card, and might be a little weaker than gifts a lot fo times, but there are situations where it would actually be better.

[Imsomniac101]

This is slightly off-topic, but there isn't another Gifts thread at the moment.

I've been playing with Gifts for a few months now, and I've tried all manner of draw engines. Intuition/AK, Thirst, Scrying, 4 Scrolls/4 Gifts, Confidant; and I've become increasingly dissatisfied with ALL of them.

Problems:
Intuition/AK:
- takes too many slots
- makes the deck more vulnerable to graveyard hate

Thirst:
- effect isn't as powerful as I like
- I hate discarding moxen
- I never want to discard 2 cards

Scrying:
- life loss is relevant against aggro-control type decks
- requires black mana
- relies on the graveyard, sometimes there aren't any cards that I want to remove

4 Scrolls/4 Gifts:
- not flexible enough
- Scroll is sorcery speed, and Gifts is a full 4 mana

Confidant:
- has to be on the table in the first few turns to have any effect
- card draw is not immediate
- vulnerable to creature hate

Just my personal opinion. I'm currently playing with Intuition/AK, but I don't have enough slots to play with the cards I really want.

[ZeroGs]

I recently made a few changes to my list, taking out vamp and vault for the duress'ses. The problem I have now with the inclusion of 2 duress is needing a steady black source, maybe 3rd Sea or swamp and -1 island would fix that right up. I feel that this build is pretty strong even though lacking LOA. My main reasons for not including it is that when I play moxes, counter a spell, pitch to force or even resolve an unsucessful thirst for knowledge(not pitching an artifact) all library is, is 1 colorless, I like having U open, or even better the strip mine which was the one who took its place, strip mine = always good, LOA = conditional. Like it was mentioned before you want to draw and combo out, but also stopping them from "going off" in turn leaving your hand short of 7.   

Aritfacts:
Rx Black Lotus
Rx Sol Ring
Rx Mana Crypt
5x Moxen
2x Pithing Needle
1x Tormods Crypt
Rx Lotus Petal

Artifact Creatures:
1x Darksteel Colosus

Instants:
4x Force of Will
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Mana Drain
4x Brainstorm
3x Gifts Ungiven
1x Rebuild
Rx Mystical Tutor
Rx Ancestral Recall
Rx Fact or Fiction

Sorceries:
Rx Yawgmoth's Will
Rx Burning Wish
Rx Demonic Tutor
Rx Time Walk
Rx Tinker
1x Merchant Scroll
2x Duress

Lands
Rx Tolarian Academy
Rx Strip Mine
3x Island
1x Snow-Covered Island
3x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island

As towards the topic of this thread, my only utility card preSB is tormods crypt as it is never completely useless as it pitches to TfK, Let me know what you guys think.

[dicemanx]

Strip Mine is not "always good". If you mean that you can almost always use it to destroy a land, then sure, that's correct. However, whether that will have meaningful impact in a deck that otherwise typically runs no mana denial and is mana hungry is situational. And LoA doesn't have to be able to draw a card for you every time you draw it and play it. Even if LoA only drew you cards in 10% of the games, that to me would be too good to pass up.

I will continue to state that not playing LoA in control decks is a mistake.

[Machinus]

Strip Mine is not "always good". If you mean that you can almost always use it to destroy a land, then sure, that's correct. However, whether that will have meaningful impact in a deck that otherwise typically runs no mana denial and is mana hungry is situational. And LoA doesn't have to be able to draw a card for you every time you draw it and play it. Even if LoA only drew you cards in 10% of the games, that to me would be too good to pass up.

I will continue to state that not playing LoA in control decks is a mistake.

I always run Library, and almost never run Strip Mine in Gifts. So I agree here as well.

[ZeroGs]

I may have gone too far as to say strip mine is "always good", I'll accept that. I will say though that it is useful more often in terms of probability than LOA. Wether ~10% is with or without accuracy(I'll use ~squigglys~ may be a little more or less), LOA becoming active and helping or just being a burden, the latter will happen most often. If it wins you those games then you can also say that ~90% of the time it wont help in winning the game, only become useless. Strip mine on the hand will destroy immediate threats in the flavor of bazaar, workshop, academy, or you can also strategically get rid of one of their colors, that are kept so tight in the major decks today.

Dont get me wrong I think LOA is a very powerful card, but in a gifts pile, strip mine given the right situation(more often than LOA) will be sent to the graveyard, along with needle when you NEED to get rid of their land threats, and that to me means a lot, allowing you to make more aggressive plays, which is how I like to play gifts.

In the control mirror I cant really argue about its strengh, only thing I can say it that if you out tempo them with strip and get in critical spells, play your postSB reb's right you should not need the Power of LOA, which has screwed me in the past.

This all may be a little skewed based on games I've played, but that's what makes magic magic....

[dicemanx]

In the control mirror I cant really argue about its strengh, only thing I can say it that if you out tempo them with strip and get in critical spells, play your postSB reb's right you should not need the Power of LOA, which has screwed me in the past.

Well, perhaps you should explain how exactly it has "screwed you in the past". Granted, there will be the odd game where you will play an early LoA and because of it you won't have the Drain mana available turn 2, but that can often be attributed to a poor game decision or mulliganing decision rather than a deck construction mistake. For instance, if you start with a LoA hand, its conceivable that you might not play it over an Island/fetch turn 1.

[zeus-online]

Only times LoA has ever screwed me over, in any deck has been because of mistakes, done by me.