New Frontiers aka an attempt at green ritual

[Bum_of_keld]

alright here it is

New Frontiers - G
Sorcery
You may return a forest to your hand instaid of paying Now Frontiers mana cost

You may play an additional land this turn

Draw a card

The card feels elegant and very powerfull to me, the type of card that gets put in every deck of the color for the type two format but its so simplistic and cool, i just love the feel of it. It can be a very small ritual of a green mana by replaying and retapping a land and replacing itself, very powerfull but confined to green, the color least able to really take advantage of short term gain. It also acts as a really cool land accelerant, a one shot exploration that replaces itself instaid of sticking around which has that green mana feel of building itself.

As to the name's flavor, the new frontier without ACC is nice, it gives the idea of spreading ideas and resources (drawing a card and playing a land). The ACC part might be that you needed to temporarily leave somewhere you already were to expand to a new place now and would come back to it later, not necessarily a "green" feel but i think its close enough to suffice. What do you guys think, i would LOVE to see this sucker in print.

[ReAnimator]

So you know there is an actual card called New Frontiers, which is a rare from oddesy right?

/nice card though.

[Machinus]

I like this card. As for the name, you could call it "quirion" something.

[chrissss]

really nice card dude.

what about making it an instant, so it can even be used to hose strip mine/wasteland?

[Bum_of_keld]

Yeah i just remembered that... suggestions people? Quirion something does have a certain ring to it though  :lol:

And i did think of making it an instant and giving it a sort of gush like feel, but it seemed like the card may become to powerfull as a trick at that point instaid of an accelerant.. But harrow did have that ability to dodge removal, hmm it may be possible. Anyone with a bit more knowledge of the current color pie have a suggestion on instant/sorcery status in green?

[parallax]

First, remove the card draw. This card does not need to cantrip. It's good as without it and the card draw just makes it broken. This is basically a card that provides one free mana like Elvish Spirit Guide or Desperate Ritual. I don't see any problems with this being an instant. It is pretty much another Crop Rotation at that point. MaRo mentioned that land-searching spells that sacrifice lands are usually instant so they can play around LD. It should read "Put a land card from your hand into play." then. This card has nice synergy with Land Grant/Bayou in Tendrils decks. I believe it would have to be restricted in Vintage (even without the card draw).

[Machinus]

I think this is already good enough at sorcery that it should stay as one.

[jro]

This card is way above the curve.  Here are the cards that cost G and let you draw a card: Insist and Frog Tongue.  Both of those are  more conditional than this, and never lend them to the kind of abuse this is capable of.  Not to mention you could play this just as a mini-Gush.  Even just as an empty hand topdeck this card is nuts: You bounce a forest, draw a card, and replay the forest, putting you 1 card deeper in your deck for no cost.  (You can even float G first, risking burn but otherwise putting you up 1 mana.)  Basically, as long as you have at least a single forest in play, this card always nets you 1 mana AND a card.  Let me put it this way: I'd play four or these in 2-land Belcher, and that deck only runs 2 land.

[netherspirit]

I think this would be fair as an instant as long as the card draw is removed, as for a name, all I can think of is something like Plains of Discovery, but that sounds more like it should be a land.

[The Atog Lord]

This card is actually insane. It is broken. If it were blue and worked with Islands instead of Forests, it would be at least as strong as Brainstrm, if not better.
This card cycles through your deck and costs you no mana. It is a 0cc cantrip, it is an instant-gratification Urza's Bauble. Four of this card would wind up in every single deck that plays forests (or Tropicals).

[Bum_of_keld]

Absolutely with the alt casting cost the thing is amazing, but I'm wondering if thats really so bad. I mean its the ESG effect everyone always wanted because instaid of having an alternate Grey ogre it has an alternate buildup option and it replaces the land you play if you take that option. I see now that this card has fallen to something much more similar to half a gush, but it is GREEN folks, not blue, which is obviously a strike against its power level. I'm wondering that if stands as is with the ACC if it is just to powerfull as the best of the one mana advantage rituals that have become the new standard (cabal etc..) but again, everytime i try to think of it as broken i think back to in what context? With land grant and storm yes obviously, the card actually came to me from that context, but where else?

I think this is the mana accel card that green deserves, a card that speeds up to 3 mana turn three without a significant sacrifice. Outside of type one it will fuel earlier counters and draw engines, as well as beaters, but i doubt it would "break" any formats outside of giving UG desire a card to wet its pants over.

Do you guys think its TOO powerfull as is, i could see knocking off the ACC and taking out the "ritual" part of this card.

and oh yeah..
Quirion Exploration
heh..

[jro]

Do you guys think its TOO powerfull as is, i could see knocking off the ACC and taking out the "ritual" part of this card.

It is absolutely too powerful.  It's an automatic 4 of in any deck that runs forests, in any format.  Let me explain why: it nets you 1 mana for absolutely no cost, not even the cost of a card.  It's as if Elvish Spirit Guide said "Remove this from your hand: Add G and then draw a card.  Play this only on your turn and only if you control a forest."

[Machinus]

I guess one problem is that you can go forest, this, land, go. That is too good for most formats.

Raise the cost to and keep the cantrip. Also make it put the land into play tapped. Then I think it will be better.

[Bum_of_keld]

It is absolutely too powerful.  It's an automatic 4 of in any deck that runs forests, in any format.  Let me explain why: it nets you 1 mana for absolutely no cost, not even the cost of a card.  It's as if Elvish Spirit Guide said "Remove this from your hand: Add G and then draw a card.  Play this only on your turn and only if you control a forest."

Yes i understand that its a "ritual" more in the flavor of green. The "ritual" part of this card can only be used to net green mana or force you to replay a new duel in the new formats. Netting green/generic in a deck playing green means you will be laying permenants at an accelerated rate. I have no problems with this in standard or block. Yes it is powerfull and gives what ever else that is good in green in the format a huge boost, but perhaps i have something against green but that doesn't really scare me guys, outside of combo decks. Yes this is incredibly good in any deck that manages to use green as part of its combo, but green doesn't have much to offer combo outside of the obvious harvest usage and land grant in type one. Restrict this is type one, i don't care. If that makes the card good and ready to give green the card that actually gets its mana off the ground without completely exposing itself to being hosed then i have the job i set out to do.

HOWEVER i do think that the combo potential of this card may be too intense, perhaps dropping the ACC is in order and would clean up the card's flavor quite a bit. An actual green "ritual" flavored card is out of flavor, though i do have to point out that it is not unprecedented, obviously referring to cards like ESG and early harvest. But then again with the card draw this is not throwing away anything at all to recklessly do something else like black or red, it still has a distinctly green feeling too it. I am not really sold one way or the other i love the utility of this card. sigh...

With the dropped ACC how about something like boon of exploration for the name.

"Exploration begets opportunity for those brave enough to mount it."

[parallax]

For those who believe this card is fair because it is green and not blue like Gush: This card is only barely green. This card is as green as Land Grant, which sees play in Meandeck Tendrils, which is a Blue/Black deck. Any deck in any format can add Tropical Island/Breeding Pool and use this card in mono-blue. Also, Gush was most abusive in Gro-A-Tog, which played green. This would also be busted in Extended Tog, which plays green. I could also see Turboland builds in Legacy cropping up abusing this card. Vinelasher Kudzu is Standard-legal. I see this shaking up a lot of formats and breaking at least one.

Forest, this, land, go would not be that abusive. Forest, this, land, BoP, go would be. Compare this card to Elvish Pioneer.

If you want this card to accelerate to three mana turn two, then the land needs to CIPT, and remove the ACC.

If you want to make a green-flavored ritual, remove the card draw.

[Darkenslight]

New Frontiers - G
Sorcery
You may return a forest to your hand instead of paying Now Frontiers mana cost.

You may play an additional land this turn.

Draw a card.

As it is, it's probably too b0rked.  I'd say something like either:

Territorial Acquisition  1G
Sorcery
You may return two Basic Forest to it's owner's hand instead of paying Territorial Acquisition's casting cost.

You may play up to three additional lands this turn.

It was never enough to find the land, but to own it as well was a dream only a few would ever realise.

OR:

New Frontiers - G
Sorcery
You may return a basic forest to your hand instaid of paying Now Frontiers mana cost.

You may play an additional land this turn.

Draw a card.

[Harlequin]

How about makeing the drawing a card more limited?
something Like:

Wispers of the Wood
Sorcery
You may return a forest to your hand instead of playing Wispers of the Wood mana cost.
Reveal the top card of your library, If it is a land put that card into your hand, If not you may choose to put that card on the bottom of your library.
You may play an additional land this turn.


So it gives you a conditional draw... or a Scrye 1.

[Matt]

[Machinus]

Right, summer bloom is bad when it doesn't draw a card. However, if you drop it to 1, add a cantrip, and have some sort of ACC, it becomes really cool. So I think there is a fair cost. My attempt is much closer.

[jro]

Yes i understand that its a "ritual" more in the flavor of green. The "ritual" part of this card can only be used to net green mana or force you to replay a new duel in the new formats.

It's not the "ritual" itself that is necessarily the problem.  The problem is that while all other mana accelerants force you to trade a card for a mana boost, this doesn't.  It's just straight up free mana.  If you don't think this is a problem in block or standard, consider something like this:
1st turn: Forest, Tap Forest, Play ACC of this, Draw a card, play forest, Tap Forest, play Sakura Tribe Elder
You end the turn with 2 cards in play and 5 in hand, and you've played a 2cc spell.  It's like starting the game with 1 mana floating in your pool.

Even without the ACC, this card is horribly abusive.  How about getting two of these opening hand (with 3 forests in your top 9 cards):
1st turn: Forest, Tap Forest, Play this, Draw a card, Play a forest, Tap Forest, Play this, Draw a Card, Play a Forest, Tap Forest, Play Birds of Paradise
So now you've got 4 mana sources in play ready for Turn 2, and you've still got three cards in hand (four once you draw).  Turn 2 Loxodon Heirarch is definitely not fair.

I absolutely agree with Parallax's suggestions on fixing this: either drop the card draw, or drop the ACC and make the land CIPT.  Either version would still be playable, but it would no longer be horribly abusive.

[Bum_of_keld]

OK OK, how about this:

Boon of Exploration
G
Sorcery
Put a land from your hand into play tapped,
Draw a card.
"Exploration begets opportunity for those brave enough to mount it."

and

Quirion Exploration
G
Sorcery
You may return a forest to your hand instaid of paying Quirion Exploration's mana cost.
You may play an additional land this turn.


Some one come up with something better for that name... yikes.

[Machinus]

Why not just tweak the original card?

Cardname

Sorcery
Lands you play this turn come into play tapped.
You may play an additional land this turn.
Draw a card.
You may return a forest you control to it's owners hand instea of paying Cardname's mana cost.

This prevents broken opening plays but maintains the usefulness of the original card.

[Bum_of_keld]

Machinus, think about it.

Firstly, this new card boils down to a card that's merits are on par with rampant growth. And then look at the ACC, it is completely useless now in terms of short or long term advantage really, it just becomes a 0cc cantrip if you control a forest. Not exactly what i had intended. The card originally had the potential to net a green and a card turn one or accelerate an entire turn of mana development much like an early time walk for a green. Obviously broken.

By splitting the card into a ritual piece that actually accelerates at the significant cost of a card gives you the fair ritual.

The second card gives you alot more flexability by making it basically an "elf" early game as far as mana development goes or just cantripping itself in the late game.

Both cards seem good to me, but no longer the redic broken half a gush and an exploration to boot it was..