[deck] Shop Agro - Right time to play?

[Harlequin]

Shop aggro seems like more and more the right deck to play.  So long as it is geared to face Tedrils combo.  It can overpower almost every version of Fish, and out race Slaver.  Stax is about an even match, but stax is on the decline.  Same with Oath, your really raceing them to punch, but again oath is on the decline. 
Shop / Welder decks continue to gain "tricks."  So they have the potential to be insanely broken.  However the "Tricks" can be twarted by well placed counterspells or disruption like null rod or needle.... but at the end of the day, when all the tricks have been spent and newtered, there is always the walking 4 turn clock to fall back on.
It seems like alot of other players (new and old) have recognized this, and have been looking into building shop decks. 

So here is my attempt at a Shop Agro deck in the makeing:

4  Workshop
3  Blue Fetchland
3  Volcaninic Island
1  Underground Sea
1  Mountain
1  Tolarian Acad

2  Wasteland
1  Ghost Quarter
1  Strip Mine

5  Moxen
4  Lotus, Sol, Crypt, Vault
2  Gilded Lotus

Protection Artifacts:
1 Trinisphere
4 Chalice
3 Crucible
2 Jester's Cap

Arti-Beats:
4  Juggernaught
1  Razormane
1  Karn
2  Triskellion

Tinker Toolbelt:
1  Dupelicant
1  Sundering Titan
1  Memnark

Spells that required Colored mana:
3  Goblin Welder

1  Tinker
1  Ancestral
1  Time Walk
1  Wheel of Fortune
1  Demonic Tutor
1  Vampiric Tutor
1* Shattering Spree (or 2)
1* Gorilla Shaman (gets cut for spree #2)

Sideboard--
4 Pyrostatic Pillars
4 Defense Grid
2 Shattering Spree
3 Eon Hub
1 Razormane
1 Crucible

General Play:
Its workshop aggro... so basically the plan is to beat face.  Typical Chalice is for 0 (against combo) and 2 (against control).  Chalice for 1 easy to cast as well, but I typically do not cast it blindly because it cuts off cards in my deck as well.

This decklist comes from a Decklist that Orlove Ran in Richmond '05 to 4th place.  Then It's got some added toys.

Choices:
-- 2 Trike, 1 Razormane --  Originally this deck runs 3 trikes.  I Really like the 1 razormane for fighting against fish.  He is Easier to hardcast and the discard can be paid realatively guilt-free because of Crucible and welders.  Also he gives you a random out against Goblins.  I think the 2:1 gives better diverity than the 3:0.

-- Memnark -- Possibly the oddest/newbiest deck choice.  He edges on "win-more" most of the time, but I'm not convinced that he is totally worthless yet.  He's more of a catch-all sollution to "big" problems.  He has synergy with most of the deck, things like Welder, Karn, and shattering spree can be randomly crazy good.

-- Land Destruction Package --
3 Crucibles, 1 Strip, 2 Wastelands, 1 Ghost Quarter.  Again I think the diversty has merit.  You hear alot of players talking about "waste-proof" mana bases now a-days.  I think a single Ghost Quarter could prove to be extremely powerful.  Firstly, It can cut off access to non-blue colored mana in control type decks... namely RED mana.  BUT so can Wasteland.  Basically here is the arguement - If your opponent has basics left in the deck then It does nothing, and if they do NOT have basics left then its as good as wastland - therefore just run wasteland.  The point is that it is truely NOT "as good as wasteland" simply because it can now clear basics that ARE in play when they run out.  So It really is extra stipmines. 

-- Wheel of Fortune --
Wheel is a card that I think People play incorrectly.  Wheeling for the sake of getting a new hand is not very good if your opponent has the same advantage.  So before game 2, when I have my Grid's in the deck, this card is always played with a grian of salt.  Carefully setting up Chalices and welder OR hopefully haveing a trinisphere must be arranged in-order to ensure this card's sucess.  This is all 4 Thrists rolled into one card.  Basically this card makes an attempt to keep the threat level up, and the mana dependance down (as compaired to running a set of TfK).

-- Gilded Lotus --
Because it may be tapped immediately, in all fairness to this card, it only COSTS 2 mana... but you need 5 to play it.  With cards like Cap and Nark this is a good way to power-up some mana hungery cards as well as convert Shop mana into colored mana.  It aslo gives a noteable boost to Shattering Spree, and is perfect for under Trinisphere.

-- Shattering Spree and/or Gorrilla Shaman --
I'm starting to lean more and more to Shattering Spree x2 (with 0 shaman).  It lets me kill a pesky null rod useing only one land, or lets me punish other shop decks if I have gilded in play.  Because I play Karn, and chalice - the Mox Monkey seems a bit redundant.  I do like his ability to control the early game against control... but still he seams a bit redundant.  The other option is to cut Karn for 1 Shaman wich has also been considered.

Sideboard Choice:

4 Pillars.  Right off the bat, powerful answer to combo.  Hurts me very little.  Better than null rod? I think so because #1 Null rod Hurts me, #2 null rod slows them rather than speeding me up, and #3 they are already going to be siding in mass artifact bounce and possibly artifact destruction.  Pillars is not a win condition, but it does limit the ammount of time they have to win, and sevearly limits the WAYs they can win, such as the Bargin kill.

4 Defense Grid.  This ensure that you have a hope and a prayer against Control.  It trumps their turn 2 drain by comming down on turn 1.  However it weakens the first turn Chalice for 2, if I do not have a Grid in hand.  But against control game 2 I am more interested in chalice for 3 and chalice for 1.

3 Eon Hub. Answers Energy Flux, Ichorid, and Oath. But is it better than Something like Echoing Truth?  I think so.



Match up core concepts:
Gifts (control Tendrils) - Basically Keep laying down threats and attacking the mana base.  Getting out a sundering titan or Memnark is key to victory.  Post Board you need Pillars and Grids in, and probably the extra Crucible.  They are going to go for an early Tinker so try and get a welder to stick.

Slaver - A bit different than Gifts.  Basically, Similar Game one plan, with the added goal of getting a trike out to win your welder war.  Memnark can be your best friend.

Fish - Basically your trying to overpower them.  Null rod can be a thorn in your side but it doesn't stop Juggies and more importantly it doesn't stop razormane.  Post board its all about sticking a Eon Hub before they land a Flux.  So, again attack the mana, and keep your threat level up.  You have more tutors then they do, so you should be able to land it or weld into it.  If you can't, its not impossible to weld around it with trikes and razormane's to keep thier field at bay until you find a Hub.

Stax - You have the speed advantage on stax, and your mana base is high enough to all but ignore thier chalices and spheres.  The main deck spree's can shine in this match-up.  Also memnark gets a chance to be exremely powerful as well.

=======================================================

Well thats the basic Deck. 
I Like the simplicity in the sideboard.  It has clear answers Combo, Drain, and Oath, in consistantly abundant supply.  The only real concern on my part is that I lack Reb on the board.  Is it overly simplistic to make my board
4 Pillars
4 Reb
4 Defense Grid
3 Eon Hub

Does the overlap in Grid and REB make this too much work to pull off?

Would this deck be destroyed by fish?  I think the answer is yes if the fish deck is packing targeted hate like Disenchant or E-Truth.  Is this a valid concern?

How about Slaver, or tinker in general.  Is welder enough (with the rogue threat of 1 Nark and 1 Dupe)?  Chalice can prevent Tinker If I am on the play and drop it for 0, but again do I need to be packing bounce? do I need maybe Sculpting Steel?

[Dante]

I'm not sure Ghost Quarter is worth it here.  Ghost Quarter combined with Crucible might be an innovation for Stax, where it has a long-game plan and an anaconda-like squeezing (basically where Ghosting out all of someone's basics will be worth it).  In your deck here, it seems like you want to Waste to keep them off mana while beating with a big stick, not try and bleed them out of basics.

Your manabase should either get fixed or be 5-color.  You have no way to fetch out your 1 basic mountain, so why even bother with colored lands and fetches, especially since you're playing Titan.

I'm not sure if this might be the best choice, since it's best matchup (Stax) hasn't had much traction lately and you basically roll over to combo game 1 (combo decks know how to play around chalice and 3sphere and 2 caps isn't reliable enough fast enough).  Drain matchups will always be tough.  It might be a tough fight with more combo now than last year.

[Harlequin]

The one mountian was a dirrect result of Ghost Quarter.  Basically, letting you "fetch" for a red mana with GQ and any other land.  I will admit that GQ has definately not undergone any riggorous testing as of yet.  In all likely hood I will most likely go back to 3 wastes and 2 crucibles. 

The point about combo also does not fall on def ears.  The other idea was to "pre-side" against Combo and squish the Pyrostatics into the main deck.  I'm not sure exactly how I would accomplish that though.  Any suggestions to that end?

I would also agrue that the deck does not have a fantastic match against Stax.  Its good, but if they get the welder jump on you, your basically dead.  Also they have more and easier ways to control your welders.  I would argue this deck has its best match against Fish and Slaver... wich is out in force.

[Juggernaut GO]

pyrostatic pillar is a great card in some matchups, in others, it fucks you right in the ass.   I would be content to drop pyro pillar against any control deck, and ride a juggernaut to victory.  It is an auto win card against storm combo if you get a turn to play it, but if you play it against fish or goblins, or any other aggro/control deck you lose.  their dorks and counter magic will beat you before pillar will.

Would I maindeck 4?   The answer is, it depends.

The other problem that decklist has is lack of draw.  If you are not running sphere of resistance, there is no reason not to play thirst for knowledge along with the welders.  The lone wheel of fortune will more often then not give your opponent a winning hand, and you will almost always lose the game unless you have already time walked and have the win on the board.  For this reason, I like memory jar much better expecially with welder interaction.  You go broken, and they possibly lose their yawgwill in the jar hand unless they find a brainstorm.

Also, running fetchlands and a 2/3 color manabase is nearly useless unless your playing brainstorm.  Brainstorm is the only reason to run fetchlands in type 1.

I have a 5c workshop aggro list that I have never played, not sure if I ever will, because all workshop aggro has a terrible match against control slaver unless you can resolve a chalice for 0 turn 1 every game.

4 mishras workshop
1 tolarian academy
1 strip mine
2 wasteland
4 gemstone mine
1 barbarian ring
4 city of brass
1 ancient tomb
1 ghost quarter

1 duplicant
4 goblin welder
3 juggernaut
1 triskelion
1 sundering titan
1 platinum angel
1 gorilla shaman

4 thirst for knowledge
1 ancestral  recall
1 time walk
1 black lotus
1 tinker
1 trinisphere
2 crucible of worlds
1 mana crypt
1 demonic tutor
1 sol ring
1 vampiric tutor
5 mox
1 mana vault
1 crop rotation
1 fastbond
1 balance
1 memory jar
4 chalice of the void


sb:
2 triskelion for fish and other aggro
2 rack & ruin Better then shattering spree because of the instant speed.
2 ray of revelation  oath will show up at rochester, and you cant lose if you board these.
3 tormods crypt  best weapon vs slaver, IT, and some gifts decks
3 swords to plowshares  fish, oath, random aggro, some workshop decks.
3 pyrostatic pillar  any combo, any control deck.

[Harlequin]

Travis, how do you feel about Defense Grid?  I notice your deck doesn't offer much to the arguement "If something big gets drain ... GG."

Do you care about the drain mana? Do you chalice for 2 ASAP? or is that deck fast enough to power right through drain?

I do agree, durring testing, I found the draw department.. lacking.  Originally I didn't want to run Thrist because I was planing on Sideing or MDing In the Eyes of Chaos... but I think that might be too far out there, and it was eventually cut for the Defense Grid.

[Juggernaut GO]

Thirst for knowledge is your weapon against drain.  I will always cast a TFK during the opponents first main to draw a mana drain.  Its a spell that they have to counter when you have a welder out, and they normally will burn in their 2nd main for 3.  Then when they are tapped down, you can cast your fat spell on your turn, which they will have to force of will if they have it, or deal with it.

Also, running strip effects, it is alot easier to keep your opponent off drain mana then if you werent, expecially if they drop volcanic/underground.

[Draven]

Brainstorm is the only reason to run fetchlands in type 1.

This sentence is wrong in every instances of the word "wrong." It should be reversed saying with out Fetchlands, Brainstorm is far less usefull...

[Rock Lee]

oh man

I KNEW someone was going to jump up on Travis's case on that comment. Everyone knows Travis makes exaggerated claims to get a rise out of people, but that they're usually backed by some logic or reasoning.

For those who can't translate "Travis Talk" here's your cipher'd version.

"Brainstorm is the only good reason to run fetchlands in type 1, because otherwise you're thinning (read:weak), shooting with a lavamancer, building ... threshold *shudder*, or building your Tog kill, which are all as worthless as a goblin mons raider."

[Juggernaut GO]

"Brainstorm is the only good reason to run fetchlands in type 1, because otherwise you're thinning (read:weak), shooting with a lavamancer, building ... threshold *shudder*, or building your Tog kill, which are all as worthless as a goblin mons raider."

you got it.

no one really cares about grim lava mancer in this format, honestly...