New Fish Toy?

[scutakicker]

So everytime a new set comes out lots of cards are looked at and then they turn out to be too slow, too weak or too conditional (Trygon Predator is a great example). This, however, caught my eye:

Creature - Giant Soldier  1W
Cumulative upkeep - Put two cards in a single graveyard on the bottom of their owner's library. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.)
4/4

It is a 4/4 (which is about as solid as you can get besides Negator) for 2. The "drawback" will likely eventually kill it off, but only after you've swung several times and eaten their yard out of anything that can be recurred via Will, Crucible or Welder. Yards fill fast in vintage so it should be able to survive for at least 2 swings, perhaps 3 (or much more in the case of decks like Ichorid). If not MD material, it seems at least a great sideboard card vs Ichorid and Control decks (they usually abuse Will and fill the yard w/ card drawing and counters). Thoughts?

[Draven]

So everytime a new set comes out lots of cards are looked at and then they turn out to be too slow, too weak or too conditional (Trygon Predator is a great example). This, however, caught my eye:

Creature - Giant Soldier 1W
Cumulative upkeep - Put two cards in a single graveyard on the bottom of their owner's library. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.)
4/4

It is a 4/4 (which is about as solid as you can get besides Negator) for 2. The "drawback" will likely eventually kill it off, but only after you've swung several times and eaten their yard out of anything that can be recurred via Will, Crucible or Welder. Yards fill fast in vintage so it should be able to survive for at least 2 swings, perhaps 3 (or much more in the case of decks like Ichorid). If not MD material, it seems at least a great sideboard card vs Ichorid and Control decks (they usually abuse Will and fill the yard w/ card drawing and counters). Thoughts?

What is the creatures name??? I can't seem to find it on the Gatherer. What set is it even from? Perhaps it is from *Coldsnap* due to the Cummulitive Upkeep???

[edit] Changed *Requisition* to *Coldsnap*... That's what I meant, but all the talk about Requisition caused a goof in my typing...

[Fred The Ev]

If you couldn't find it and it has cumulative upkeep, then that probably means it's from coldsnap.

[roberts91rom]

Sideboard versus Ichorid. Thats it. Once that guy comes down no deck will drop down 2, then 4, then 6 things in their graveyard. You'll be lucky to keep this guy around more than 2 turns, and even then you are probably facing a bad player. Doesn't do anything versus Will, Welder players will just stop dumping and you remove 1/5 Strips or 1/6 fetches from crucible. Only against Ichorid, and even then I would rather run stuff that just wins instead of trying to A)Race dredge or B)Stall dredge for 1 turn.

[cssamerican]

So, in most cases it will remove at least two cards (Of your choice I assume?) from their yard and do 4 damage for 1W. That not bad if that is all it does, but I actually think it does a little more. If you opponent delays his game plan in an effort to remove this guy by not playing spells, then he is playing perfectly into your gameplan. It would give you additional time to strengthen your board and more time to win the damage race. Because of this I don't think any deck can afford not to play spells, so the drawback most likely isn't a severe as it first appears. You could also use your own graveyard to pay the upkeep the first time in an effort to keep it on the board longer if need be.

It also combos nicely with Power Conduit since it gets to grow the creature while keeping the upkeep at two cards. Probably not real competitive but certainly fun in more casual settings.

[Imsomniac101]

This is a very interesting card. Normally, I hate listening to people suggest cards that are obviously suboptimal, but this card is different. I will be watching this very closely, if not play testing it.

My verdict is that it's definitely playable.

btw, the card's name is Jotun Grunt, with two dots above the "o".

EDIT: on further thought, I think this card is quite insane, it's like graveyard hate on a stick (that doesn't take additional mana, take that Wretch). UW Fish will be glad to have this card, as is any aggro-control deck packing white.

[dandan]

I'm not sure if rules questions about cards that haven't been printed belong here but I guess it is relevant to the application of this card. Clearly the first upkeep is remove 2 cards from a yard, but is the second upkeep 2 instances of remove 2 cards from a yard i.e. you could remove 2 cards from your yard and then 2 from theirs or would you have to remove all 4 from the same yard?

As someone said, it is a sturdy beatstick that empties yards in a hurry. I think it might fall between 2 stools as as a pure beater it will be hard to keep it alive for long (although one swing with the occasional second swing might be enough to justify itself) and as graveyard hate it is fairly slow. I guess an aggro deck that wants some graveyard defence might use it but I see it more as a SB card, where Tormod's Crypt is usually better. Still, graveyard hate that is Null Rod proof, likes to be bounced and can smash face isn't that bad!

[Juggernaut GO]

you could always ninja it back to your hand after the upkeep gets to big to pay.

[Mantis]

Whoa there, if this card hits play on turn 1 or turn 2 it might be not all THAT good. But what about you play it after you've emptied your hand? It's going to be huge serving a double duty keeping down Welder/Will or Crucible or Dredge and swing for four every turn! If players stop playing spells that might mean this Soldier will be screwed but the rest of your gameplan can continue. And like the man with the best sig ever pointed out; it can be Ninja-ed when he ages too much.

The 1W manacost means this could work well with the full compliment of Moxen. I don't know about you guys but I'm thrilled with this card and I'm going to test it out for sure.

[Darkenslight]

I call Yawghate.   :lol:

On a more serious note, I like the card's potential for abuse, not only in Vintage, but in other such wonderful things as Extended (Die, Tog, DIE!) and even Legacy, to an extent (Die Thresh, DIE!)

1W for a 4/4 with Cumulative Upkeep that's not really a drawback?  I'm in!

[Harlequin]

If you were going to really run this guy in fish, you'd probably want to up your tutor count.  Mainly because you can keep tossing your ancestral back in the deck.  Maybe some sort of Yawg-less, Togg-less, Quirion Dryad deck?  Something in the realm of 4 merchant scrolls?  basically totally abuseing Ancestral recall like it's never been abused before!

[Guli]

It can be combined with cards that fill your graveyard aswell to keep it alive for 2 swings. For example dredge. Or just fetch a lot and waste/strip. If ya can get 3-4 cards in the graveyard i think it will be safe to play this card. I will most likely play 3 of these to see how it goes in my UBW fish. I was running Suppression fields (3) so i could replace those easily and add in wastlelands and additional fetch. I think in a non black heavy fish deck it will be easier to play this guy than the Wretch. It also gives a faster clock. No seriously this card looks very promising!

edit*

Also if you really want to keep it on the board 1 more turn you can use Stifle right?

[nataz]

  Something in the realm of 4 merchant scrolls?  basically totally abuseing Ancestral recall like it's never been abused before!

That was the first thing I thought of too!

haha, I'm pretty sure that as a random beater or what-not in fish he isn't that usefull, but as a possible engine? Maybe.

He's more like feldons cane on a stick then wretch or crypt or anything.

[Scoops666]

As far as the rules question someone asked earlier, each 2 cards popped is a differant instance, so you can go 2 from my yard, 2 from yours, etc... It doesn't have to all come from the same graveyard.

[Imsomniac101]

As far as the rules question someone asked earlier, each 2 cards popped is a differant instance, so you can go 2 from my yard, 2 from yours, etc... It doesn't have to all come from the same graveyard.

Holy Crap + other expletives. If that is true then this card is GOOD. In my excitement, I kind of forgot the speed at which this thing works. That is the only true drawback of the card, it's slow graveyard hate. Possibly, slightly slower than wretch.

?Something in the realm of 4 merchant scrolls??basically totally abuseing Ancestral recall like it's never been abused before!

That was the first thing I thought of too!

haha, I'm pretty sure that as a random beater or what-not in fish he isn't that usefull, but as a possible engine? Maybe.

He's more like feldons cane on a stick then wretch or crypt or anything.

All you need is two beats with the guy, then the rest of your creatures will make short work of your opponent.

edit*

Also if you really want to keep it on the board 1 more turn you can use Stifle right?

If this thing can be stifled, then I'm definitely all in. It becomes an auto include in my eyes. Can somebody confirm that the upkeep can be stifled?

[Darkenslight]

If this thing can be stifled, then I'm definitely all in. It becomes an auto include in my eyes. Can somebody confirm that the upkeep can be stifled?

Yes.  Cumulative Upkeep is one triggered ability.  It Reads:

502.13a Cumulative upkeep is a triggered ability that imposes an increasing cost on a permanent. "Cumulative upkeep [cost]" means "At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice this permanent unless you pay [cost] for each age counter on it."