Heartbeat Sideboard Slots

[Anusien]

A few things in the Heartbeat sideboard seem a necessity:

3 Gigadrowse
The canonical list has at least 2.  Especially since the explosion of UW at a few of the regionals and the prevalence of Angel Control as well, having at least 3 seems very very important.  In Team Standard, you might see control or the mirror 1/3 of the time, but in the new T2, it might be as often as 1/2.

1-3 Savage Twister
Depending on how many you have maindeck, most players want to have 2 or usually 3 Savage Twisters to bring in against aggro.

3-4 [card]Carven Caryatid[/card]
I've only seen lists with 4, but I suppose if you needed a cut, you could start here.  Also, some players replace these altogether with Kudzu, but that seems wrong.  Still, Cavern Caryatid can be very slow against aggro.

The Man Plan
Having a transformational sideboard seems essential.  Matchups like Zoo, Magnivore, BW, BWg and Angel Control can be very difficult depending on the setup if you stay on the combo plan.  There are two options that seem to be good.  Either you board in a few flying monsters (1-2 Meloku, 1-2 Keiga, 0-1 Ryusei, 0-1 Simic Sky Swallower), or you board in Vinelasher Kudzu.  The flying monsters are more powerful, but Kudzus come down more cheaply.  Kudzus seem better against Zoo and the mirror because they come down earlier, but are situationally weaker.

Open Slots
I'm a fan of [card]Shadow of Doubt[/card] since it helps against BW and the mirror.  I've also seen [card]Drake Familiar[/card] and [card]Viridian Shaman[/card] as Weird Harvest-able ways to remove Pithing Needles and Ivory Mask.  [card]Iwamori of the Open Fist[/card] as extra fatties (to supplement Vinelasher Kudzu) is an option, but it's bad against BW.  If you don't have it in the main, Research // Development probably earns a sideboard slot as well.  You could also board [card]Voidslime[/card] or Hinder and be able to turn extra Drift of Phantasms into hard counters.

[Roxas]

This is what I ran at Regionals:

4 Carven Caryatid
2 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
4 Gigadrowse
1 Naturalize
1 Savage Twister


If I could do it over again, I would run not run Naturalize or the fourth Gigadrowse.  Not sure what I *would* run instead, but those two definitely need cutting.  I could never justify cutting something for the fourth Gigadrowse, and I didn't cast Naturalize once. 

[tehmajickguy]

You definitely need 4 Vinelashers in your board. They rule the mirror match better than any other card while being pretty savage in other match-ups. Heres what I ran at regionals:

4 Vinelasher Kudzu
3 Carven Carytid
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Voidslime
2 Savage Twister
1 Research//Development

It was pretty solid all day, but finding room for Pithing Needles might be advisable. Boarding in Kudzus, Voids, and Needles crushes the mirror while the Needles also help out your Husk match, which is absolutely abyssmal.

[Sgt. Pepper]

I listened to the Top8magic.com podcast today, and Paul Jordan (some friend of Mike Flores who plays on the Tour sometimes) said that the mirror was all about who could go off faster. He advocated against bringing in guys for the mirror because Heartbeat has a good aggro matchup. Thus, going from to combo to aggro control actually makes you deck weaker in the mirror (though I guess bringing in a lot of Needles and Voidslimes could help).

I also don't like Kudzu's against Zoo or any Stompin_Ground.deck because it will just trade with a creature or burn spell if your lucky. Gladiel Sleifer said that you'll only get wrecked by certain cards if you let them. If your opponent just Shocks the Kudzu instead of waiting until it's a 4/4, then Kudzu just doesn't do anything. I think you're better of with Carytid and Twister.

Regarding Iwamori: almost every deck runs some kind of legend, even if it's just a single Meloku, it's not worth the risk. Just play Twister and wipe the board, keep it simple.

As I said in the other thread: I would defiantly board a Punishment to get rid of any Needles that might appear from the board.

Your right btw in saying that a man plan is essential. It keeps your opponent guessing, and you can sometimes make them board in/keep in cards that aren't relevant just because they fear Keiga.co

[tehmajickguy]

I listened to the Top8magic.com podcast today, and Paul Jordan (some friend of Mike Flores who plays on the Tour sometimes) said that the mirror was all about who could go off faster. He advocated against bringing in guys for the mirror because Heartbeat has a good aggro matchup. Thus, going from to combo to aggro control actually makes you deck weaker in the mirror (though I guess bringing in a lot of Needles and Voidslimes could help).

I also don't like Kudzu's against Zoo or any Stompin_Ground.deck because it will just trade with a creature or burn spell if your lucky. Gladiel Sleifer said that you'll only get wrecked by certain cards if you let them. If your opponent just Shocks the Kudzu instead of waiting until it's a 4/4, then Kudzu just doesn't do anything. I think you're better of with Carytid and Twister.

Regarding Iwamori: almost every deck runs some kind of legend, even if it's just a single Meloku, it's not worth the risk. Just play Twister and wipe the board, keep it simple.

As I said in the other thread: I would defiantly board a Punishment to get rid of any Needles that might appear from the board.

Your right btw in saying that a man plan is essential. It keeps your opponent guessing, and you can sometimes make them board in/keep in cards that aren't relevant just because they fear Keiga.co

While its semi-true about Heartbeat having a good aggro match, Heartbeat doesn't want to see a turn 2 guy that the best thing they can do to it is remand it. You don't even need to board in needles, it just helps. I'd like to know how its supposed to beat a deck with 11-12 counters and an evergrowing clock.

In regards to Kudzu versus a deck like Zoo or Gruul, its really a matter of what you think your opponent's deck is gonna look like after board.  At the very least, Carvens, Twisters, and Melokus should be coming in for obvious reasons.

Finally, I fully believe that Crime//Punishment is worthy of a maindeck slot. Its so versatile its crazy.

[kirdape3]

Why not just listen to Max Bracht and board as follows:

3 Bottled Cloister
4 Hinder
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Savage Twister
4 Vinelasher Kudzu

with the following board plan:

Mirror:
In: 4 Vinelasher Kudzu, 4 Hinder
Out: 1 Boomerang, 1 Maga, 1 Swamp, 1 Pyroclasm, 3-4 Heartbeat of Spring, maybe 1 Early Harvest

Orzhov:
In: 3 Bottled Cloister, 3 Savage Twister
Out: 4 Remand, 1 Sensei´s Divining Top, 1 Recollect

Zoo/Gruul:
In: 3 Savage Twister, 1 Meloku
Out: Invoke the Firemind, Boomerang, 2 Sensei's Divining Top

U/R:
In: 4 Hinder
Out: 1 Invoke the Firemind, 1 Heartbeat of Spring, 1 Eearly Harvest, 1 Pyroclasm (against the full set of Goblin Flectomancer, however, you'll need the Pyroclasm… board only one card then)

[Anusien]

First off, I hate Bottled Cloister versus BW.  That was fine when all you had to worry about was Ghost Dad, but Husk will just blow Mindslicer on your turn.  I'd rather Research//Development main versus Cranial and transform or partially transform post-board.

Going for Invoke the Firemind in the mirror is a mistake.  If you go for Maga, it becomes much easier to win the counterwar, since Muddle the Mixture cannot counter Maga.  My boarding pre-Kudzus was -2 Heartbeat, -1 Crime//Punishment, -1 Research//Development, -1 Savage Twister +3 Gigadrowse +2 Shadow of Doubt

That boarding is risky, and outdated.  I like Crime//Punishment, because among other things, it gives me another board sweeper if I need it.  And I would keep Boomerang in against Gruul anyway if you don't transform; it's way too easy for them to just board in 3 Needle and wreck you.

Also, Cavern Caryatid seems too good against Gruul and BW to not bring in.  As SWK is fond of saying, they basically can't win if you resolve one, since it's a 3 for 1 or better.

[NCM]

Unfortunately, I was not able to make it to Regionals, but this is the board I would have run (NOTE: I had 3 Savage Twister and 1 Research/Develpoment main):

1 Loaming Shaman
3 Carven Caryatid
3 Gigadrowse
1 Train of Thought
1 Boomerang
1 Bound/Determined
2 Research/Development
3 Voidslime

Caryatid, Gigadrowse, Train, and Boomerang should be fairly obvious. Bound/Determined is there against blue-based control to distract their counters from what's important and generally just mess with their heads. Voidslime is in there for both the mirror and BW Husk so that I at least have an answer to Mindslicer. Loaming Shaman was originally savage tech against Magnivore but then I realized that if you have 3 mana you're already winning. The real trick to winning that matchup is going first.

About the three-of metagame slots, specifically Twister and R/D: I was first inspired to run 3 Twister main by the deck that took first at a PTQ in LA. His logic behind running so many Twisters is that you don't have to waste time and tutors to grab it. I was very swayed by this logic and it's what I decided to to. However, I am now rethinking that decision and think that a 2 main/x board Twister split would be good. I am also beginning to doubt if R/D is worth it or if I can just increase my counter-base further.

I agree with what Anusien said about Cloister. It's too slow and there are too many ways around it. Same for Ignorant Bliss.

I personally don't like Crime/Punishment. Okay, it deals with Needle. So does Boomerang, Naturalize, and Viridian Shaman. It deals with multiple Needles you say? Zoo and Gruul have no draw engine (unless somebody throws Ninjas in and makes Blue Zoo), BW has enough discard to the point where Needle isn't the biggest threat to you and it's basically the same thing with control, only with counters instead of discard. Magnivore might not even pack Needle if their going first - then their plan will just be to play Ponza for a few turns and then put you on a fairly short clock (4 turns or so) with Vore. Another argument for it that I'm sick of hearing is that you don't have to pay 5 mana to kill Kird Ape. This is true, but if you do play Twister for 3 you also kill Isamaru, Ledgewalker, Ruskala, Dryad, Scab-Clan Mauler, etc. So by using C/P for 1 you're getting less card (and tempo) advantage.

However, I won't dismiss it entirely. I'll test it again and see if it works as good as Boomerang. With C/P you need to pay 6 to take out Ivory Mask, but who runs that anymore?

Why not just listen to Max Bracht and board as follows:

3 Bottled Cloister
4 Hinder
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Savage Twister
4 Vinelasher Kudzu

Why exactly did he have Hinder over Voidslime? It seems like thay are both functionally similar but Voidslime is much more versatile and you are almost never without green mana in this deck (if you are then you're either manascrewed or not playing correctly). Sorry, I didn't know when that was.

[49 Cents]

Voidslime wasn't legal yet.

[Anusien]

Crime//Punishment has an easier mana cost, and it kills Needle instead of bouncing it, which can be relevant.

I can't see Bound//Determined ever being good.  It seems so much worse than just running a counter there; it isn't a win in the mirror because Shadow of Doubt still works.  Like yeah, it cantrips and does good stuff, but I'm wary of cards that only go offensive.  Bound//Determined doesn't, for instance, stop a turn 4 Zur's Weirding.

Loaming Shaman is interesting on your own graveyard more than anything, but I can't actually see it being worthwhile.

Is Train of Thought worth it against BW?  Will you get enough mana to make it relevant?  I'd think Needle would be better hate on Husk, plus it's more useful.

No beatdown plan?  Isn't that better against Vore than Loaming freaking Shaman?  Plus, so incredible versus blue decks (like the mirror).

[NCM]

B/D does suck, but if your opponent doesn't know how to play around it, it can distract them enough so that they will waste counters on it. Then again I might not be giving my opponents enough credit. Either way, I'll probably cut it.

Turn 4 Zur's Weirding? Who plays Zur's Weirding?

Train of Thought is more geared towards the control matchup and the mirror, but it could be used against BW. I'm boarding in a lot against BW as it is.

I'm comfortable without the beatdown plan (I'm short on time so I'll explain later), but yes it probably is better than Loaming freaking Shaman.

Also, I forgot to post my current board:

4 Caryatid
3 Gigadrowse
1 Train of Thought
1 Boomerang/Punishment
1 Savage Twister (2 main)
4 Voidslime
1 TBD

[Anusien]

Turn 4 Zur's Weirding? Who plays Zur's Weirding?

UWR Angel Control is difficult solely because it has Zur's Weirding and it Compulsive Researches Angels into its yard to set up a hard lock.

Train of Thought is more geared towards the control matchup and the mirror, but it could be used against BW. I'm boarding in a lot against BW as it is.

I would be hesitant about it in the mirror because you'd have to give up a counter (Muddle) at sorcery speed in order to find it, and I'd rather have Gigadrowse or something.  My problem with so many of those cards is they're often not better than just having Muddle or Weird Harvest.  Boarding in singleton tutor targets is so overdone with this deck.

[NCM]

Train of Thought is more geared towards the control matchup and the mirror, but it could be used against BW. I'm boarding in a lot against BW as it is.

I would be hesitant about it in the mirror because you'd have to give up a counter (Muddle) at sorcery speed in order to find it, and I'd rather have Gigadrowse or something.  My problem with so many of those cards is they're often not better than just having Muddle or Weird Harvest.  Boarding in singleton tutor targets is so overdone with this deck.

If you look at my board, you'll see that when I board in Voidslime I have 12 counters at my disposal. I can afford to lose one of those if it means gaining massive card advantage.

Which brings me to my next point. Card advantage is vital to the deck during matchups that demand it, control and the mirror. I prefer card advantage over the man plan because you retain inevitability. With the man plan your have cards like Kudzu, Meloku, and Dragons which is great and all but it forces the deck's strategy to change from a non-interactive one with inevitability to an aggro-control deck with comparatively less certainty. The man plan was great during its induction when nobody expected it. Now people know how to work around it and it's becoming less and less optimal. themajikguy already said why Caryatid is better than Kudzu against aggro. The man plan gives you tempo, but inevitability is ultimately a more powerful weapon in the deck.

As far as Vore goes, I don't really know how to comment on the matchup aside from just saying "win the coin flip". A man plan could work, at the very least it could be better than Loaming Shaman, but I doubt it would go over well in a general meta. Anyone else have more experience with the matchup care to shed some light on the subject?

[LordHomerCat]

If you tap out for Train of Thought in the mirror (for like 4+ cards, which I guess is about the minimum for "massive card advantage"), on your turn, tapping down like 8 lands, don't they just go off when they untap and your card advantage doesnt matter?

[NCM]

Actually, I consider drawing (and keeping) at least 3 cards to be "massive card advantage". After all, this is only Type Two.

You could just play Train when you're about to go off. Play Train for 3 cards, tapping 6 lands and leaving 3 open for Early Harvest or 5 open for Heartbeat followed by Harvest. Or you could leave extra mana open to counter/bluff a counter. At the very least you have +3 CA, so even if they do kill you you can at least have three more cards in hand.

As far as the mirror is concerned, I don't believe that it's about whoever can go off faster. If I wanted to do that I would board in Utopia Sprawl. The mirror is about whoever can go off safer - ie. with counter backup. In order to get this backup, card advantage is key. In my testing, I have usually waited to go off in the mirror until between turns 6 and 8 as opposed to between turns 4 and 6. The reason is because in that matchup I like to have 2 counters (preferably Remand so that I can use it on my own spells*) backing me up before I go off, and since the deck doesn't really have a draw engine I have to sit around and spin Top for a few turns in order to accomplish this.

*There is a benefit to doing this. Let's say an opponent tries to counter one of your spells and you hava a Remand in your hand. Lets see how it would play out if you countered their spell.

NCM plays Early Harvest
### plays Muddle the Mixture
NCM plays Remand (targeting Muddle the Mixture)
### plays Muddle the Mixture

They'd just counter it again. Now let's try something different.

NCM plays Early Harvest
### plays Muddle the Mixture
NCM plays Remand (targeting Early Harvest)
Muddle the Mixture doesn't resolve - no target
NCM plays Early Harvest

[Anusien]

Yeah, we all know the Remand trick.

You misunderstand.  I don't want Meloku, and I would definitely not board in Meloku versus the mirror.  If you get down a turn 2-3 Vinelasher Kudzu, your chances of winning go up drastically.  If neither player has a clock, both players sit around accumulating cards until someone goes for it.  If you get a Kudzu down, it forces the other player to hurry up and go off.  It's also significant because you only have to burn for 10, and he has to burn for 20.  It's not a question of Kudzu versus Caryatid, but Kudzu versus Meloku.  I've never had a problem with just having 8 counters and the three Gigadrowse.  But maybe I'm playing the mirror differently.  Without going for Kudzus, my boarding was: -Crime//Punishment (I knew he was staying on the combo plan), -Savage Twister, -Supply//Demand, -2 Heartbeat of Spring, +3 Gigadrowse, +2 Shadow of Doubt.

Sensei's Divining Top is enough to make up for the lack of card advantage.  Yes, you occasionally have problems (like I did in a nasty game one where I set up Research into Gigadrowses) where you can't draw business, but if you have 2+ counters already, you can afford to save up counters and just go off.  You're trying to pitch me some situation where you have at least four Islands and two other lands untapped, with Muddle the Mixture and Voidslime in hand.  In order to go for Train of Thought safely, you'd really need to at least have two counters beyond the Muddle you're transmuting, and then there's really no point in throwing away a counter just in case, because he's not going to win regardless.
Oh yeah, and Train of Thought is a sorcery.    I wouldn't run Compulsive Research, and that's +2 for only 1 blue mana.  I'd rather run Research//Development, since that might clock, and it's an instant.

Like, yes, against control, going for the man plan is a bad idea.  I love playing against control though.  You really need the man plan for some matchups like Husk and Vore.  The fact that having Kudzu in the mirror is nuts is just extra gas.

[tehmajickguy]

@ Anusien:  I wasn't sure about Meloku either until I played with him at Regionals. He single-handedly made sure I beat Zoo and picked up a clutch game versus an aggro Critical Mass variant. Granted, he's not exactly great against Husk, but he definitely gets the job done. I'm pretty sure hes worth at least 2 slots in the board.

[Anusien]

@ Anusien:  I wasn't sure about Meloku either until I played with him at Regionals. He single-handedly made sure I beat Zoo and picked up a clutch game versus an aggro Critical Mass variant. Granted, he's not exactly great against Husk, but he definitely gets the job done. I'm pretty sure hes worth at least 2 slots in the board.

That's easy to say, but where?  My board:
4 Carven Caryatid
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
2 Savage Twister
3 Gigadrowse
2 Shadow of Doubt

what should I cut for Meloku?

[NCM]

I've never had a problem with just having 8 counters and the three Gigadrowse.  But maybe I'm playing the mirror differently.  Without going for Kudzus, my boarding was: -Crime//Punishment (I knew he was staying on the combo plan), -Savage Twister, -Supply//Demand, -2 Heartbeat of Spring, +3 Gigadrowse, +2 Shadow of Doubt.

Sensei's Divining Top is enough to make up for the lack of card advantage.  Yes, you occasionally have problems (like I did in a nasty game one where I set up Research into Gigadrowses) where you can't draw business, but if you have 2+ counters already, you can afford to save up counters and just go off.  You're trying to pitch me some situation where you have at least four Islands and two other lands untapped, with Muddle the Mixture and Voidslime in hand.  In order to go for Train of Thought safely, you'd really need to at least have two counters beyond the Muddle you're transmuting, and then there's really no point in throwing away a counter just in case, because he's not going to win regardless.
Oh yeah, and Train of Thought is a sorcery.    I wouldn't run Compulsive Research, and that's +2 for only 1 blue mana.  I'd rather run Research//Development, since that might clock, and it's an instant.

For starters, Shadow of Doubt is essentially a counter in this deck since it is almost always used in response to something like Cranial, Weird Harvest, or a Transmutation and it will stop those in their tracks (at most Cranial is reduced to Castigate). In fact, I was running it before I realized Voidslime could stop Mindslicer. So you're really running 10 counters.

The scenario I described assumes that you transmuted for Train on the turn before or ripped it off the top like the mizer that you may or may not be. But for the most part, it is unlikely unless you've done a lot of accelerating beforehand, so you're right in that respect.

I don't see why you'd need 2 counters in addition to Muddle. Can you be a little more clear on that? Did you mean if you're about to play Train or just in general?

As far as it being a sorcery goes, so is Reach, the Transmutations, and the combo itself. Many of the best control options in this deck are sorceries. R/D may be instant speed, but it doesn't actually get you cards in your hand when you need them, it just makes you spin Top more to find them, and that's not something I'd like to do since it means that I may have to let combo pieces go for the time being in order to get a Gigadrowse.

Top is all you need you say? Against control it is possible, but in the mirror I don't think that it can cut it, especially if your opponent is putting pressure on you with Kudzu or drawing twice as many cards as you. Train may not be the right answer, but we definitely need something.

[Anusien]

My point is that with the number of counters I'd need to have and the amount of mana I'd need to have to feel safe transmuting away for Train of Thought and then casting it the next turn, you have a huge advantage anyway.  I'd need to have three counters in hand before I'd throw one away to get a draw spell.

Re: Shadow of Doubt as a counter: Hrm...  How was the mana on that for you?  Did you have difficulty casting it?

[NCM]

OK, I see what you're saying about the counters now. I guess you're right.

As for how Shadow of Doubt was as a counter, no, I didn't really have trouble casting it. What's you're point? That it's less mana than Voidslime?

[Anusien]

My concern is really that Voidslime is a ridciulously tough mana cost to make, especially early.  It's worth picking up a few, if only they'd not be $12