The Mountains Win Again

[Myriad Games]

I've posted my latest tournament report from the Double Mountains Win Again Top 8 at Myriad Games this past Saturday!

Check it out!

[Myriad Games]

While refining the deck for the current / future metagame, one point of discussion has been how many Gifts / Combo / Control slots are needed in the side. Options include Children of Korlis, more copies of cards that are presently singletons (Null Rods, Pyrostatic Pillars, Tormod's Crypts, etc), a number of REBs / Pyroblasts, Duress, etc. In my recent experience, Gifts has not been an overwhelming portion of the metagame; it has simply been played by better players and therefore consistently appears at the top tables.

Thoughts?

[Barron]

The way i use the deck against gifts is a little different from most, but i have had success with it, even pre sideboard. I want to say that i especially do not like pillar, and to a lesser extent, I do not like null rod. I have learned from experience that pillar has never been a game winner for me against gifts, even without it being disrupted: pillar and null rod are damaging when drained (i play very few 2cc cards) and when that happens it tends to be game over: with the lack of counterspells I have tried to stay away from relying on permenants gifts with permenants since, more often than not, they can easily bounce it back to my hand and combo off taht turn. My strategy is to keep their mana in check with wastelands,  mox monkeys (4 md), and by almost always placing their mana from gifts in the graveyard (sometimes even when they pick tinker): to keep their hand in check by making sure they have to force when they can: and to keep their graveyard in check with a crypt always out in play (I just went from 4-3 MD, but have more testing to do to see if i dont want 4). So long as you keep them from having the resources requisite to combo out the game is yours. This strategy isn't as "hard" as a on board null rod would seem, but it's passive nature prevents mana drain from being very effective and prevents their bounce from being very effective. So, with that strategy in mind, I prefer the non-permenant sideboard, duresses, REBs, etc. I currently have a new sideboard that opts for the durresses and the reb/pyroblast mix (the number of which i am still deciding). The problem i am having is what can go out of the md. I cut down the swords count, by one or two, and i cut the lavamancer count, and sometimes the crucible. My question is, what are the worst MD cards against gifts? Yes it depends on deck builds, but general positions on cards can still be made. Right now i am thinking that the least relevant/most damagind cards in the MD are dark confidant and magma jet, but i am relucant to take them out initially since they are also advantagous in card quality and draw. The real problem is that Drain, that 2 mana really makes a difference in their goldfish speed. Those are my thoughts.

[Myriad Games]

Thanks for the feedback, Barron. Could you post your latest deck list? This will allow us to better analyze which main deck cards from are weakest against Gifts. Keep in mind that if you expect a lot of Control / Combo (including Gifts), it may be worthwhile to maindeck some Pyroblasts / REBs. They're also quite good against Fish and there's no denying that blue is by far the most popular color in Vintage.

[Barron]

The build I am currently working on isn't finalized yet, but here is how it is looking so far.

Creatures 15
4 Goblin Welder
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Gorilla Shaman
3 Dark confidant

Artifacts 7
3 Tormod's crypt
1 mox ruby
1 mox pearl
1 Crucible of worlds
1 Umezawa's jitte

enchantments 2
2 genju of the spires

Spells 14
4 STP
4 Magma jet
4 hide/seek
1 enlightened tutor
1 vampiric tutor
 
lands 22
4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
3 plateau
3 bloodstained mire
2 badlands
2 windsewpt heath
1 stripmine
1 scrubland
1 mountain
1 wooded foothills

SB
4 duress
2 reb
2 pyroblast
1 sacred ground
2 rack and ruin
1 tormod's crypt
3 ?

I still prefer the old build because i find it to be a bit more controlling, which is what i tended to want more of in my matches. I like to play 4 welders because they will always have a use with one MD jitte (which i will explain later) and I also like them because they flush out those forces, which i am almost always happy with since that card disadvantage can really hurt them. I keep going back and forth in my head on gorilla shamans and vandals, but i think i finally decided on shamans, they tend to be more destructive (as far as quantity) and more useful against decks that aren't stacks, but run power. I also like them because with them i don't really need to rely on null rod. Yes the combo decks can keep the mana in their hands until they want to combo out, but keeping them in their hands slows their deck down enough, also i found, especially against decks like gifts, null rod wouldn't really matter since they would just play the mox and then search for the bounce when they wanted to combo out and there wasn't much i could do about it. I like the MD crypts since I find them more advantagous than null rod against stacks and gifts. They cost nothing (so no need to worry about drain) and since they cost nothing i can just throw it out there against stacks to use as tanglewire fodder, and a lot of stacks builds already MD null rods so that gives an idea as to how useful that card really is.

The jitte. I decided to MD jitte since this deck has some issues should it ever play a jank deck and jitte just tears those apart. it's also great to get out in the first game against fish decks and is just a good kill condition. My only reservation is its mana intensive nature. I don't like paying 2cc for a card that isn't immediately useful. With the cc in :this deck being so low: there being 1cc tutors: monkeys needing mana: and the genju: a 2cc card can really slow it down, so it better be immediately useful so the deck doesn't lose its in game edge.

I don't like the grunt because i find it gets chumped block fairly often and even though it denies graveyards, it doesn't do it at instant speed, which is key against gifts. i would rather just wipe out their chump blockers with lavamancer and swing with a genju. I know, and have though about kris mage, but i think this decks lack of cardadvantage is a weakness that shouldn't be made worse. I am starting to think of a competing TMWA build that exploits the syntergy between the kris mages, grunts, and welders, but it would need to be another type of build almost entirely (In the details) and not a hybrid. 

I am also still considering MD entomb, but i can't seem to find any around here so i haven't really playtested it yet. I figure with the welderns and crucible it can work as an *very* effective tutor. There is the chance of it being a dead draw, but i view it like I would a mox. If i draw it past the first few turns, i am not happy to see it; it's not all that useful, but when it is in the opening hand it's explosive. With entomb, yes it could be a dead draw, but when it isn't i can see it deciding the game. It's a tutpr that gets around mana cost for the spell, with welder, and with crucible you can just fetch out the strip mine, which tends to just make people concede on the spot.


I should probably add my meta consists of combo (gifts and now maybe a grimlong), stax, sullivan solution, counter goblns and foodchain goblins (I tend to outlast both so i have never actually played either, but am slighly worried about them) and the rest is varied. with U/R slaver and such. I am having problems optomizing my deck in the environment and especially the sb. so any help would be great.

goblins is rough so I am thinking more jittes, maybe SOFAI; i really don't know. I am also hating fire/ice, no one runs it, yet, but i think they may, now and that card against my deck build is pretty devistating at times i would imagine. If i find slaver a real problem i will probably just SB pithing needles. i really don't like null rods synergy in the deck.

[Myriad Games]

Thanks for the list, Barron. That's definitely an "old-school" Mountains build, with more classical elements than the newer Grunt-based builds. I think the weakest cards in the main against Gifts are Grim Lavamancer, Jitte, Magma Jet, and possibly Genju. While a turn one Genju can develop into a major threat if they're not packing Darkblast, it's often too slow and resource-intensive to allow you to launch a successful offensive and still disrupt them. The Duresses definitely come in for the Lavamancers and the REBs for other slots. Depending on your metagame, you can run some Pyroblasts / REBs in the main to counteract that sizeable blue portion of the metagame. If you have a lot of Stax in your environment, you can't beat Goblin Vandal in the board. He's not so great against Slaver or Gifts as compared with Gorilla Shaman, but he's much better against Stax, and in combination with Welder and Shaman, Team Artifact Destruction can tear up the board quite easily. I've been toying with the idea of Jitte since it's good against random decks with creatures and there are a lot of other successful singletons in the deck, supported by the addition of the black tutor(s). Jitte definitely takes some time to get online. If you're not running Grunt, you definitely don't want Kris Mage. I don't like the idea of Entomb, which has been considered before, because it relies on you having both the black mana to play it and a pre-existing setup on the board including either Crucible or a Welder and an artifact in play. Those two scenarios come up, but not often enough to warrant the inclusion. More often than not, I think it will just be a dead card. Sword of Fire and Ice is far too slow in this deck to counteract Goblins. The important part of that matchup is eroding their mana to stop them from resolving Ringleader and keeping them off Lackey (especially when played first turn). If they're playing U/R Goblins - all the better If you run into a lot of Goblins, it may be worth running Pyroclasm in the side, as nothing else quite clears the board for just 1R. Null Rod does not play well with T'Crypt or Jitte. Against the decks where you want Jitte, you don't want Null Rod, and vice versa, so that's an easy swtich. Against Gifts and Combo, you want Crypt and Null Rod as safely valves. If you go the Grunt route, Null Rod fits in much better.

Also, I encourage everyone to write up tournament reports, even brief ones, after you've played an event with some version of TMWA. This will help fellow players analyze your play, point out optimal plays, and discuss future refinements.

Thanks!

[Irenicus]

Hello all, let me first introduce myself as a first-time poster on themanadrain.com and this thread. I am from Germany and played my first T1-tournament  January 06 with TMWA. Then i played the deck in every tournament (one exception) until October 06(made 3 Top8, the last one with this list).
I started with the "oldschool" Version (Kami, Genju, Blasts main), tried Hide/Seek main relatively early (meaning when the card was first legal) and finally moved to my last version:

Maindeck(60):

3x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
2x Battlefield Forge
4x Mountain
3x Plateau
4x Mishra's Factory

4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Orim's Chant
4x Sword to Plowshares
3x Jötun Grunt
3x Gorilla Shaman
4x Goblin Welder
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Shattering Spree
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
4x Magma Jet

Sideboard (15):

1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Sacred Ground
2x Seal of Cleansing
3x Pyroblast
4x Red Elemental Blast
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Crucible of Worlds

I know, that it looks alot different from the version that you play in the US, but after playing the deck for over 8 months, i settled on this list for my metagame. Btw in our local tournaments we get unpowered prices, therefore (and because at the beginning i hadn't any power) i played TMWA mainly unpowered.

Let me explain some cardchoices:

Batllefield Fourge:
This is mainly in the deck to random prevent loses vs. Sundering Titan. I played for a long time with 4 Plateau and 1 Sacred Foundry but lost too many games to the Titan. Therefore i made that little swith and never looke bad, because it never hurt me and helped a little bit vs. Sundering Titan.

Orim's Chant:
Normally i played with four Pyroblast main, but sometimes they were just dead and therefore i tried Orims Chant. I am still not sure wether it is the right call, but Orim's Chan is (at least) able to use proactive and not just reactive (as Pyroblast).

Shattering Spree:
It's not that i am in a big Stax-Meta, but i really like Spree vs Gifts and Slaver Game 1. Is like Shaman 5-8 vs. them, but sometimes better (read: Replicate).

In genereal t tested and played a lot of different versions and lately settled on a more focused version. I don't like 1 and 2 off's in this deck and therefore my versions looks a little bit too straight from a certain point of view. But my reasoning is, that you want your hate cards as fast as possible online and that means (e.g.) that you need to play 4 Crypts.

Anyway, just ask, if you can't understand certain choices.

At the moment i am playing Bomberman and testing that deck, but maybe i will switch back to TMWA for the last tournament in this season (year).

[Myriad Games]

Thanks for the deck list and summary. This is certainly a very focused main deck for The Mountains Win Again,with an eclectic sideboard containing many of the elements that appear in the main deck in our latest versions. What has your play experience shown as major weaknesses or strengths of the deck? What are your best and worst matchups and why?

[Irenicus]

I think that the major weakness of the deck is that i can't draw cards ( i tried D. Confidant, but didn't like him). Therefore you need to have the right cards in time.
The reasoning for my SB is that after Game 1 you know which Silverbullets you want to bring in and vs fast Decks like Grim Long an Enlightened Tutor works as a fast way to get you a missing Pillar of Crypt.

About my matchups, i think that Oath is bad. But we don't have many Oath players here, therefore it doens't matter that much. Another pritty bad matchup is FCG or Goblins in general. You have many dead cards vs. them and is very difficult do handle a Siege Gang. I have won some games vs Goblins but never won a match.

What i like to play against is any kind of Ux Fish. We have alot of them here, but only a few good players who play it. First game can get a little bit rough, but after boarding it's really a good matchup (Blast, Jitte, CoW). Another good matchup is Dragon. You have many good cards vs. them (Crypt, Chant, StP, Seal, Strip Effects, even Shaman/Spree/Blasts aren't that  bad vs the newer Dragon-Versions) and it really takes a good dragon-pilot/-sideboard to take you down.

Another Matchup i want to talk about is Stax. First of all vs a bad Stax-player you have a good game with every version of TMWA, BUT a good and experienced player can give you a hard time (e.g. setting the Chalices right, knowing when to drop Smokestack, don't run a Tinker into a blast, how to play around a crypt...). I had played with Vandals for a long time, but vs any other matchup then Stax i liked the Shamans more and vs Metal Woker Stax (i know, that they arent that popular in the US) Vadanl became worse. Therefore i tried Welder+Shaman+Spree and it worked for me. I am not saying, that Stax is a bye (cause it's not, no matter with version of TMWA you play), but with my decklist the matchup is not worse then with any other version of this deck and Mountains + Shattering Spree can give you quite an early game winning advantage.

Matchups like Gifts or Slaver can go either way, but i am not afraid of them. You just need a good combination of cards in your opening hand.

[Myriad Games]

Good points regarding the lack of a filtering/drawing engine without Confidant. It makes it all the more important to mulligan properly to make sure you have a couple of early threats / answers in your opening hand after you know what your opponent's playing. I can see the argument for Shattering Spree over Vandal if you're running two color since you're likely to have more red on the table. I just can't see myself bringing in either Vandal or Shattering Spree against Gifts since they more likely hold mana in hand to go off in my recent experience. Fish is one of my favorite matchups because I get to have on-board interaction. Neither Fish nor Stax are necessarily byes. The skill of the players makes a huge difference in almost every matchup. TMWA is very well equipped to deal with Fish and Stax, particularly after sideboard. Actually, the more I tweak the deck, the more I find that after sideboarding I have very few cards in the deck that I don't want to see during a given match.

[Barron]

The stacks round is definitely not a by, but i have found that it is much easier for TMWA to come back from a faulty start than it is for stacks. If they don't close out the game in the first couple turns they don't seem to win. But to make the match a little easier on me i am thinking of adding another sacred ground into my SB, filling one of the 3 extra spots. I figure i will just side in two sacred grounds and two rack and ruins. I think i would just side out the 4 swords for them, since no stacks deck around here runs darksteel, but their first turn welder always keeps me on my toes.

I am also thinking of ditching that entomb since i can't figure out what to cut for it. The instants are as tight as they could really get and that just leaves the creatures and artifacts. If i had the room i would add a 4th crypt so i don't want to cut anymore from the artifacts and the only creature i could really see cutting would be the 3rd confidant, but he is much better than entomb.

Part of me thinks of adding the mox jet, but i dont know how i really feel about that. It's mono color app doesn't make it as useful as i would like, but there are times when i would like to be able to EOT enlightened tutor for the jet to fix my mana. I don't know if it's worth it but sometimes i find myself tutoring for a mox (once i had to actually do it for the win  in semis against stacks).

[Myriad Games]

I would not side out your S-words against Stax. As you pointed out, they remove Welder, but more importantly, they get rid of every other creature threat they can throw out. Well worth keeping in. Also, keep the permanent count high - Grim Lavamancers are great against Welder-based Stax. Having a high number of permanents and being able to drop them quickly is essential. Always open with a Vandal, Shaman, or Welder after sideboarding and you're in a very good place.

I've been testing the Mox Jet lately and I find it to be subpar. You really don't need that early acceleration more than with the current two Moxen and an off color mana source in a deck that's already running more than enough mana just doesn't make the cut.

[Barron]

So what do you think should be sided out for the rack and ruins, and sacred grounds? (I am also considering a 3-1 count rather than a 2-2 since chalice can be killer) I figure hide/seek gets rid of all the creatures in stacks (spare welder), but both keep the creature from being welded(?) back into play and the hide/seek is overall a bit more versatile. I could cut out the magma jets, but they are good welder killers and help with card quality. that then just leaves the tutors, which are certainly not coming out, and the creatures, which are already devistating enough against stacks. I can bump out a genju, but that still leaves 3 spots, and i won't take out both since his clock is amazing.

[Myriad Games]

Against Stax, you'll hardly ever have enough mana to activate Genju. That being said, it is a permanent and only costs 1 to drop, so it's not entirely useless. From your previously posted list, if you're siding in 3 Rack and Ruins and 1 Sacred Ground, I would remove the Jitte, the 2 Genju, and 1 Dark Confidant. The first three are too mana intensive to be relevant and the Confidant is less likely to come into play if you're fetching out your primary colors. Be wary of Chalice at 1 or 2, but between the Rack and Ruins, Gorilla Shamans, Welders, and Hide/Seek, you should be all set.

[Myriad Games]

I've created a refined match compilation system that I'll be using to track progress of TMWA. If you're interested in participating in this casual study, just PM me and I'll give you all the details. It's pretty simple reporting - you'll just send the pertinent information to me via email. It should complement the thread contents nicely and will allow for a broader view of the metagame.

[Franz Ferdinand]

myriadgames: How attached are you to Kris Mage? I've been testing Shadow Guildmage in the same spot and it has been just as good without having to pitch cards.

[Myriad Games]

Thanks for the query, Franz. I prefer the Kris Mage since it lets you commit to red rather than going for the black splash in the matchups where you're concerned about Wasteland. For example, you can fetch for a 2nd Plateau to make sure to maintain access to red and white rather than getting a Badlands and losing access to white if they Waste your white source. Fetching a basic Mountain also works very well which is not something you can do to cast a Shadow Guildmage and ensure that your red source will stick around for the activations. I find the Mage's drawback relatively negligible most of the time, especially once you get a Confidant active. It can even be used to feed Grunt and/or Lavamancer. As previously stated, I'm very wary of committing to black too much to avoid mana screw in those instances. In the matchups where you're not at all concerned about mana erosion (Gifts, Combo, Control, etc) neither the Mage nor the Guildmage would stay in anyway.

[wethepeople]

myriadgames: How attached are you to Kris Mage? I've been testing Shadow Guildmage in the same spot and it has been just as good without having to pitch cards.

I tested versus a friend of mine playing UW Fish with four Wastelands maindeck using TMWA with a fairly heavy black splash. I was trying Shadow Guildmage a little more rather than dismissing the card entirely, and after this 2/3 game, I decided that it is sure to be cut from my list.

He happened to get two Wastelands during the game, and him, knowing my deck very well, chose to destroy both Badlands that I got all game. This was a very smart move for him because it cut off several cards in my deck including two or three in my hand. I had already gotten one Confidant in play so I wasnt doing so bad, but everytime I drew a black spell (including Shadow Guildmage), there wasnt anything I could do  but sit back and take the loss.

I have made Kris Mage part of my particular list but I however did cut Grim Lavamancer. I made this decision because I have found that both Jotun Grunt and Lavaman's abilities contradict one another's too greatly to be worth playing in the same deck. I know that only running two Lavamancers makes this situation very unlikely, but running the both of them doesnt seem right to me.

I think that the major weakness of the deck is that i can't draw cards ( i tried D. Confidant, but didn't like him).

Dark Confidant is the whole reason I chose to add black, it is probably a great deal of the reason that Myriad tried it out also. If you are going to play black, I think that you must run Bob. I am not saying that you must run four, because that is just a personal preferance.

In my opinion, Dark Confidant is the greatest creature black has to offer, and he is personally my favorite. I have always made decks based around him ever since I began to play Fish. He has helped me out more times than I can count. Card Advantage is big in Vintage, and it is TMWA generally does not have, so I really feel that Bob is necessary for the deck.

if you're siding in 3 Rack and Ruins and 1 Sacred Ground, I would remove the Jitte, the 2 Genju, and 1 Dark Confidant.

Now I agree with you entirely on siding out Genju versus Stax, same with Jitte. But from all of the times I have played with Dark Confidant, he has been amazing versus Stax. He alone allows you to continue drawing permanents to keep your field strong. I know several people, including Stax players themselves, who feel the same about Confidant in this matchup.

I usually choose to take out just one creature removal spell in this situation because they aren't nearly as helpful as they are versus most decks. Barron, if you run four Swords and four Magma jets MD, it wont make much of a difference if you side out one of the eight removal spells.

//wtp.

[Myriad Games]

Thanks again for the comments and feedback. The Lavamancers and Confidants both worked extremely well today. I ended up splitting in the finals in large part due to their power. I wouldn't cut either, though the balance between Grunts and Lavamancers is noted. I believe you want both since they're separate threats and each has to be answered. Regarding the Confidants vs. Stax. I now agree that, when carefully played, the Confidants are excellent here, but it's still risky. It's a trade off power for consistency, and when calculated carefully, it pays off. I ended up running all four when I played against Stax and it worked out just fine. That said, you have to be very careful with the mana in that matchup, so make your choices carefully - they can make or break a game.

I should have a report up later this week from the East Wareham tournament which took place today, December 2nd.

[wethepeople]

I don't know if this has ever been tested before, but when reading your previous post for some reason I got the idea that Crucible of Worlds would be a decent card in this deck.

Crucible allows you to use the Strip lock fairly easily because you run four Wastelands, which usually results in gg. Since you run Enlightened Tutor, it's just another piece of utility worth playing in the deck. If you are playing versus Stax or some other form of mana denial, Crucible of Worlds virtually ruins that gameplan.

I am going to test a singleton Cruci in my list with the black splash because that particular list has a weaker mana base, and land destruction disrupts the deck greatly.

One last thing that is completely irrelevant to what I was just discussing:

I threw two random Lavamen in my deck today to try out once again. I got a few games in versus multiple different Fish variants and they worked out fairly well. I got one online in a few of the games and they practically cleared the way for Grunt. I know this statement contradicts what I said in my previous post, but after testing verus nothing but Fish, they obviously worked out much better than from past testing. The only problem was that Lavamen killed my Grunt like one turn earlier, which wasnt as bad as I thought because in the end he won me most of those games.

With so much Fish in my meta, I think Grim Lavamancer is worth two slots in my list. Kris Mage may still remain I 2[of. I dont know yet, I need to test both of them a bit more before I can be sure.

[Roat17]

Actually, if you read Myriads latest tournament reports, you'll see that he usually does include a crucible as a single.  I played TMWA at a tournament a while ago and the strip/cruci lock helped tremendously.  The largest problem I find that I have is that I don't always have the appropriate mana for hide/seek + [answer#2].  I don't know why, it might be that I'm just not mulliganing aggresively enough.  But I have started to use 3 confidants and since I play 26 lands it usually works out

[Evenpence]

and since I play 26 lands it usually works out

For real?

Is this normal?

[Nastaboi]

I am going to raise once again this very fundamental question: is the tutorable hate package really better than dedicated 4-of one could run in its place (e.g. Duress, REB or something alreadyt one-of)? As I see it, good control-combo players can always play around single piece of hate, so burning a tutor to get one hate card is not going to be enough without backup. You need several peices of hate to give you creatures enough time to bring it home. Any thoughts on the subject?

[Myriad Games]

Re: Crucible

    Crucible was added back in July in version 18.5 (we're developing version 25.x now for those of you keeping track) and it has been a solid addition ever since. We certainly don't want more than one Crucible, but having one Crucible helps tremendously. Whether it's stabilizing the mana base, recurring Wastes or Strip or Mishra's Factories, it's a solid part of the deck. This is also the reason it's almost never sideboarded it out.

Re: Mana sources

     There are technically 24-26 mana sources in the deck including 4 Waste, 1 Strip, and 4 Factories. I do not consider those cards "real" mana sources so much as I consider them tools and also additional colorless sources. The distinction is crucial, and playing the deck well - especially against decks sporting land destruction - requires recognizing the difference. A hand containing a Wasteland and a Mountain is usually un-keepable while the very same hand containing a fetch and a Wasteland may be, depending on the matchup and the other cards in hand. Decks like Gifts and Combo run up around the same number of mana sources including all the jewelry and they have search and filter to help smooth out the curve. This deck can run fewer effective mana sources since it has a very tight curve.

Re: Holy Tutorable Tool Belt, Nastaboi!

     It's a topic that requires careful consideration. I find myself sometimes wanting to go back to the good ol' days of having 4x some-piece-of-hate after sideboarding, but I realize that more often than not, that overcompensates against one deck type too much. Having the REBs and Pyroblasts and Duresses after sideboard should be able to make sure a particular singleton resolves.  In the main deck, the individual tools are there to make sure you have a solid threat/answer to any given deck, albeit at the expense of a couple of dead cards. Basically the deck starts out with a decent matchup and tightens up considerably after proper sideboarding to the point where basically every card is a threat or answer, creating a potent concoction of Vintage-y goodness. I can see both sides of the argument on this one, and I think they're both valid. It all comes down to fine-tuning the deck for your expected metagame, as any good deck should do.  Besides, you never know when you'll need Shark Repellent! 

     

[Myriad Games]

I've posted my latest tournament report from ELD's Mox Tournament at Gateway Comics in East Wareham this past Saturday.

Check it out!

[Myriad Games]

One discussion of late has been the number of Red Elemental Blasts in The Mountains Win Again between the main and the sideboard. Having played anywhere from 0-8 (including Pyroblasts), I can justify pretty much any number.  In the current metagame, with so much Gifts, Pitch Long, and Fish, how many do you think are appropriate and what are the best targets?

[Evenpence]

The deal with REBs is that they win counterwars by providing additional counters into your deck.  With REBs in a deck that doesn't win counterwars, you're looking to gain tempo so you can get in there for a few more swings.  You want to REB EOT Gifts, for instance, so the enemies' turn was worthless.  You're not going to gain CA (card advantage) on REBing anything aside a force of will (where you gain the CA anyway), so there's no point to running more than 4, imo.  You don't want to weaken your intial strategy too much to disrupt the opponent's.

[President Skroob]

This might be a stupid question, but are there certain situations where Red Elemental Blast is better than Pyroblast and vice versa, or are they so similar that it never matters? I can't think of any situation where this would come into effect, but I've never actually taken them in a deck, so my experience doesn't lend itself to that analysis.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Pyroblast is slightly better in combo as it can target any spell or permanent (only countering or destroying blue ones) and build storm.  Red Elemental Blast can only target blue stuff, so you actually need to have a blue thing to counter or destroy.  REB is also that much more difficult to Misdirect.

Other than that, no, they're pretty much the same card.  Pick your favorite picture or run a split of each so they can't get Meddling Maged.

[President Skroob]

Pyroblast is slightly better in combo as it can target any spell or permanent (only countering or destroying blue ones) and build storm.  Red Elemental Blast can only target blue stuff, so you actually need to have a blue thing to counter or destroy.  REB is also that much more difficult to Misdirect.

Other than that, no, they're pretty much the same card.  Pick your favorite picture or run a split of each so they can't get Meddling Maged.

What actually brought up the question in my head was the issue of Misdirecting one, but wouldn't the issue be null since the opponent would just Misdirect it into the Misdirection itself?