The Mountains Win Again

[Myriad Games]

Since Children of Korlis does indeed let you regain lost life, I suppose that would work by letting all the copies of Tendrils resolve up until just before lethal resolve and then sacrifice the Children to gain the life back. They would still gain the life from the Tendrils, however, so even in this best case it simply resets you down a little bit and you still need to beat down for the win. My preferred method of lockout involves Null Rod + Pyrostatic Pillar, but I could see Children as a 1st turn complementary disruption that's not grabbed by Duress. It's certainly better than Orim's Chant in this instance, since that just delays them a turn while this forces them to spend all those resources generating the Tendrils only to be thwarted by a bunch of rascally kids.

While the cards involving RR or WW in their costs are tempting, they would require a reworking of the deck. A White Weenie build or even U/W Fish build might work for Rebel Toolbox and might be worth considering.

As always, looking forward to the changes.

Keep the comments and suggestions coming.

[wethepeople]

i am going to start working with my H/S build for the like four hundredth time. I dont understand why i like TMWA so much, it must have something to do with the fact there is no Blue, and it is still good. The Hide/Seek version may not be best right now because TS just released so much Tendrils hate, so i dont expect to see a whole lot of that flying around, mostly Fish.

i like Genju of the Spires ftw very much, i dont know if i like it or Jotun Grunt better, the problem with Genju is that you must run a full set of Moxen or else it takes too long. Grunt basically has Fading early game, maybe both can be played. 3 Grunts and 1 Genju?

i am going to look through Time Spiral a bit more for TMWA goodies. I will then post everything here, of course.

[Barron]

I am also on the fence about Jotun Grunt vs Genju. I ended up playing with 4 grunt, and he was ok, but not great. (I ended up placing 4th after a loss to psychatog). I also think the addition of black for hide/seek and darkblast is only slightly beneficial, maybe not worth the investment.

I think i prefer abusing grim lavamancer and crucible rather than using the Grunt. (Yes i know their uses aren't necessarily exclusive, but there is an element of bad synergy that makes its presence known every now and then).

I don't see any new cards that will definitley be an asset to the deck, but i do think this new set will make this deck more competitive. This set is very fish friendly, which is something players will definitely abuse, which is another reason why I think i prefer abusing the lavamancers, and I am still thinking of keeping the black mana in for the darkblasts, and maybe SB the hide/seeks, or just not play them.

[wethepeople]

yeah but Grunt+Dredge is practically tech, i found another card that worked really well with Grunt that i put into a random list i have in my MWS files, i will upload it later.


i found nothing good for TMWA in Time Spiral, i just looked over every White, Red, and even Black card in the set. 

[oneofchaos]

Children of Korlis is essentially a timewalk against the tinker/dsc win.  You take 11, gain 11.  For what it's worth, it's certainly not dead in non combo matchups. 

[Barron]

Has anyone tried Jotun Grunt with skullclamp? Honestly I prefer the lavamancer abuse and crypt to the grunt, but the grunt and skullclamp could make up for deck's lack of card draw; I haven't tried them together, yet.

[Myriad Games]

Skullclamp could be useful against Oath, but I don't see the major benefit of killing your own little guys or making Grunt a 5/3 rather than a 4/4. It doesn't work with Null Rod, but you could certainly try some equipment in the side - perhaps Umezawa's Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice.

[Barron]

Yeah, the synergy with null rod isn't all the great, but neither is the synergy between null rod and T-crypt. I have tried the mono md rod build, but I never found it all that advantageous. Do you really find it useful? I figure double clamping a Grunt, or even a unicorn (when in a bind) would be better than the lone rod, or at least consistently more helpful. I haven't actually tried the other equipment, either, since they are fairly mana intensive and I already dump plenty of mana into factories, lavamancers, and genjus as is. I was also thinking of slightly bumping up the Curve and using Vial rather than the Rod, but i haven't quite figured out what the vials would replace.

[Myriad Games]

I wouldn't drop Null Rod in the current environment. It's too useful against Combo, Stax, Gifts, and Control Slaver. That being said, you don't have to run a ton of them. You can customize the number of cards to fit your local metagame.

[Myriad Games]

Any predictions for sideboard optimization options post-Time Spiral?

I'm tempted to keep a close match to the current build with some substitutions between the main and sideboard and then see where it goes from there.

[wethepeople]

Any predictions for sideboard optimization options post-Time Spiral?

I'm tempted to keep a close match to the current build with some substitutions between the main and sideboard and then see where it goes from there.

I dont expect a whole lot of Gifts with the release of Wipe Away and Trickbind, same with Pitch Long, unless everyone decides to start running Duress. According to Myriad's last tournament report there was almost nothing but Fish variants, so it looks as if the change has already made it's way. I have seen quite a bit of Salvagers since Boston, so I plan to pack some hate for them. Chalice of the Void-0 is real good versus Bomberman because Engineered Explosives can't get rid of it, they must then find a Spellbomb or something to bounce it.

Jotun Grunt is good with more Aggro because it can survive some damage, Genju just dies. The only problem with Grunt is that since everyone is playing Fish it can't live so long either. I am going to stick with Grunt for now.

[Pathian]

Chalice of the Void-0 is real good versus Bomberman because Engineered Explosives can't get rid of it, they must then find a Spellbomb or something to bounce it.

Spellbomb isn't an answer to CotV@0, Aether Spellbomb only does creatures. Most Bomberman builds run Disenchant or Cunning Wish for Disenchant for this purpose. However, Bomberman's Engineered Explosives CAN deal with Chalice. They just cast it using colorless mana off a drain, Sol Ring, or Library, etc since using colorless mana changes the CMC of the spell on the stack but puts no sunburst counters on it

[wethepeople]

I never realized you could do that to get by Chalice. I must say, Bomberman is a tough deck to stop.  I think Swords to Plowshares is the best answer to Salvagers in TMWA that I can think of right now.

[Barron]

This is the new deck that I am considering and I would really like some advice.

The meta, involves some power but no one really has enough for the great combos, though I am sure there will be some eggs or some jank. Scepter makes up a substantial portion of the deck, while there is also the lone food chains, dragon, and stax. I expect a couple fish decks, possibly white and blue, and a couple psychatog decks. I have never seen an oath, but i have a nagging feeling that one might show up.

So that being said. here is the deck

Creatures 15
4 Goblin Welder
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hearth Kami
1 Kami Of Ancient Law
2 Ronom Unicorn

Spells 24
4 STP
4 Magma Jet
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Genju Of The Spires
2 Pithing Needle
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Enlightened tutor
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Trinisphere

Lands 21
4 Plateau
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept heath
1 wooded foothills
2 Mountains
1 Plains
1 Stripmine

SB
3 REB
3 Pyroblast
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sacred Ground
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Kami Of Ancient Law/Magus of the Scroll/?

First I will address the "WTF" card, Trinisphere. I am not 100% on this card, but the way i figure is as follows, it does serious damage against combo (about as good as any on collor card), it severly hinders counter magic, which is great: with the kami and land destruction it has the chance to shut an opponent out of the game, it's fetchable with enlightened tutor and recursive with welder so I can avoid it should I ever choose to.

Next, Hearth Kami. Since the power in decks is minimal, and beacuse the artifacts people tend to run are more like crucible and scepter, I decided not to run Mox Monkeys and i opted for the Kami. I didn't do Goblin Vandals because some people run Engineered plague in anticipating of foodchain goblins, and if i did vandal engineered plague would wipe out more than half my creatures.

Pithing Needle: shuts down psychatog and chant along with most other stuff that they might throw my way and with the welders i can reset it whenever i want, which has been great.

Jotun Grunt: I dont run this guy because I think the grim lavamancers and crypts control and abuse graveyards better then grunt ever could. i would rather have the lavamancer open the way for the Genju, then have the grunt be chump blocked.

So, what says you all?

[Myriad Games]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Kami / Unicorns if your metagame doesn't sport a lot of Oath and Dragon. I think Genju has been outmoded by Jotun Grunt since he doesn't require as much mana investment. Grunts can act as removal for other Grunts since they cannot afford to just have their Grunt sit there and still win the damage race. I don't think the Trinisphere will ever come down when it's relevant to the matches you're concerned about. This deck does not have enough acceleration to cast it early when it would matter. Finally, Magus of the Scroll is not as good in this deck as Grim Lavamancer, even given the synergy with Grunt. The simple reason is that the Magus requires 2 more mana to activate. While that can be effective in the long game since it would theoretically never run out of steam, it's not nearly as useful in the early game, which is what matters more in Vintage. If you don't survive the early game, you won't get to the long game. I'd just as soon see a fourth Lightning Bolt in place of the Kami/Magus slot in the side.

The Salvagers matchup is not as dismal as it seems at first. Killing the Salvagers is the primary goal, and you have plenty of removal to do it. Don't make the mistake of siding out Grim Lavamancers. Also, if you tap into Hide / Seek by splashing black, you can removal Lotus which forces them to go the beatdown route.

[Barron]

So do you recommend adding in a splash of black? I tried it and thought it made the deck slightly more competitive, but I also thought that may have been necause the meta wasn't wasteland heavy. I am so on the fence about it I am just keeping my playset of hide/seeks, grunts, and the like aside so I don't have to trade for them later. I think Grunt is superior to Genju in a lot of builds, including three color since the grunt isn't worried about Land hate.
So what about the slot for trinisphere and the magus sb slot (i already have a 4th lightning bolt). Are there just better cards that I am missing? Pyrostatic pillar wouldn't be all that great in my meta, not as a md. Possibly bombardment, but i really only have 15 creatures so i am not sure how great it will be, though I guess it is the new front runner.
I am probably going to keep in the kami/unicorn since they are moderately good at taking down an opponents life, they moderately deal with wild card decks, and because they get rid of engineered plague; i hate being caught in the crossfires of the anti goblin sbs.

[wethepeople]

I like the list with the black splash much more, it just seems more fun to play. I like Duress, Confidant, and Hide/Seeking your opponent's shit is real fun. The mana base is still fairly stable because it is just open to Wastelands, but that isnt much of a problem. Most decks run three color mana bases these days anyway.

[Myriad Games]

I suggest a black splash, but just that - a splash, not a dip, nor a gulp, nor a true third color.

Many people make great arguments for powerful and complementary black cards to add to The Mountains Win Again.

It's not the individual cards or the required mana sources that I object to, but the reliance on that third color for cards.

If you don't get a black source during a given game and you're just splashing for Hide/Seek, you have 4 cards that are dead and none after appropriate sideboarding.

That flexibility, to not rely on Dark Confidant and/or Duress and/or whatever other black cards people suggest, is what keeps the deck stable in an mana denial populated environment.

[Barron]

Yeah after more testing I have decided that hide/seek is a definite MD card. What I am starting to become disapointed with is Magma jet. I find it is usually the first card I take out of the MD after the sideboard. STPs generally stay in, even though one or two may be removed, to deal with their darksteel or the like; the bolts deal with a first turn welder or other early creatures, even if you go second. Also, against combo it is pretty much useless and since it costs two, easily turns against you when drained. Yes the scry can help a bit, but I think more damaging topdraws would be better, like upping the pyrostatic pillar count (against combo) and throwing an early bolt at their face. I dont think the card should be entirely removed, it does have it's advantages. I am just thinking lowering the MD count to 3 and replacing the 4th one with Entomb. It ups the black mana cards to 5, but with welder it's a great tutor. It effectiely tutors the crucible to play rather than to my hand at the cost of a draw (though I am still keeping that tutor in). Also, if i have the crucible it fetches my stripmine for me, which is always good to have, and it doesn't give drain much to work with.

My position on jet not being worth the cost could be because I am still sticking with the genju rather than the Grunts. From my playtesting I have concluded that the crypts give you much greater control of games against stack and combo. As long as you keep the pressure on with mana denail and deny them their graveyards at instant speed they won't have the card advantage to combo you out, which is the decks biggest threat.

[Myriad Games]

Magma Jet is deceptively underpowered. When possible, it kills most creatures better than Lightning Bolt since it includes Scry. Often it is cast simply to scry which can be enormous in a deck with little deck manipulation. It is more resilient to Chalice on 1. It helps you dig for what you need in matchups where it's not needed for board control. It's also important for the creature based matchups that you keep your composite removal rate high. There's nothing quite as satisfying and effective as Jet-ing a Confidant and scrying into another Jet and a situationally less useful card (like a land) which goes promptly on the bottom.

The inclusion of Entomb to combo with Crucible is questionable, since the probability of getting active Welder in play (with nothing else pertinent to weld) and having another artifact in play, is not as high as it may seem at first. It would do well to fetch a Strip Mine or Mishra's Factory if you have Crucible already in play, the black mana available, and the Entomb in hand. While good in theory, it will be less than ideal the majority of the time. If you'd like to up the black cards in the deck, add Confidant, as he's useful in more situations.

I'll post my latest build when I complete my tournament report from this past weekend.

Above all, keep the feedback coming, and keep testing different options and report on your results.

Thanks!

[Myriad Games]

I've posted a comprehensive tournament report from the Your Move Games tournament on October 22nd in which TMWA made a Double Top 4 appearance!

Check it out here.

[Myriad Games]

Another Mountainous weekend coming up.

Post what you think of the latest build (as linked in the previous post) and suggestions for improvement.

The focus of recent discussions seems to be on the color-blend. How many black cards (if any) should be splashed, and which ones? How should the mana base adjust for Wasteland-heavy and Wasteland-light metagames? Should the go back to Mono Red and be more aggressive or add new tech to be more controlling? Sound off!

[wethepeople]

One reason I like TMWA is because it is very easy to alter the list to fit your metagame properly. I recently put together a list that was intended to fit the metagame consisting of Gifts, Combo, and a lot of Aggro. I first off made the change by adding a black splash to make my matchup versus Combo/Gifts stronger.The main card I wanted to use was Hide/Seek because it gave you the ability to remove DSC and gain 6, making there Tendrils route far more difficult. H/S does fairy well against other decks, for example, you can Hide a lock-piece, or simply take a key card from his/her deck, not necessarily DSC.

I learned that the Stax matchup became slightly weaker when adding another color because I run less Basics, however I still made sure to run one of each so I could atleast rely on them. Little people actually realize this, but Dark Confidant makes the Stax matchup all the better because it allows you to continue to draw permanents to the point where their lock hurts them more than it does you. Bob of course helps in other matchups, so I felt that four MD would be good for the deck because it originally had a fairly weak Draw Engine (Magma Jet was about it).

Fish also tends to weaken your Mana Base, so I felt that I would like to improve the matchup by using powerful creatures like Kris Mage, and much other Creature Removal so I had control of atleast one part of the game, the attack phase. Jotun Grunt, one of the strongest creatures in Vintage right now had to make the list, however I found that running four was just too many because graveyards emptied too quickly. Even three seemed like a burden. I decided to find ways to keep the GY strong (hence why Kris Mage is replacing Grim Lavamancer), so I added Darkblast. With Darkblast you can kill almost everything besides opposing Grunts and Auriok Salvagers. Using the Dredge mechanic you can also fuel Grunt for even longer. Darkblast and Kris Mage were not however enough Utility to control a Fish-heavy environment, so I chose to add Swords to Plowshares. I have not yet decided on three or four in the maindeck, I am only running three for now.

Several things from your list are similar to mine. I kept four Wastelands and the single Crucible of Worlds, which isnt bad because I can occasionally search for it (via Enlightened or Demonic Tutor), depending on the game state. With Enlightened Tutor I chose to continue to use Seal of Cleansing over Disenchant. Goblin Bombardment stayed for similar reasons, it also helped a lot to finish off Creatures when really necessary, along with all the other cards in the toolbelt (Crypt, Null Rod, Pyrostatic Pillar).

I still liked running Goblin Welder because he made the Stax matchup much easier, as well as handle DSC and other pestering artifacts. So the Creature Base goes:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Goblin Welder
3 Kris Mage
3 Mishra's Factory

I cut a Mishra's Factory because 9 colorless mana producers seemed like too many for three color, which brings me to my explanation of the Mana Base.

3 Plateau
2 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 City of Brass
3 Flooded Strand
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Basic Mountain
1 Basic Swamp
1 Basic Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
3 Moxen
1 Petal
1 Blk Lotus

The lonesome City of Brass is good for a random opening land, it allows you to get going without problems with colored mana, same with Lotus Petal. So 29 Mana Sources, a lot, I know, but 8 of them are colorless, and Factories are hardly even land. Wasteland doesnt hang around long enough to be considered a real mana producer either.

In the build you brought to the tournament seemed like it had a lot of random burn spells (3 Bolts, 3 Jets, 2 Kris Mage, 2 Lavamen) I cut Lavamancers for an additional Kris Mage, along with the Lightning Bolts entirely because they didnt seem necessary with so much other Utility.

But anyway, here is my current Mountains list:

Creatures [14]:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Goblin Welder
3 Kris Mage

Utility [17]:

4 Hide/Seek
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Magma Jet
1 Darkblast
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Null Rod
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pyrostatic Pillar

Mana Base [29]:

3 Plateau
2 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 City of Brass
3 Flooded Strand
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Basic Mountain
1 Basic Swamp
1 Basic Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
3 Moxen
1 Petal
1 Blk Lotus

The Sideboard hasnt really been focused on much quite yet, but so far it has the following:

Sideboard:

1 Swords to Plowshares- I bring in another for Fish and other Aggro decks because there are several cards that dont help much at all in this particular matchup.

3 Kataki, War's Wage- A card that wasnt really payed attention to when I put together the main list, Kataki is a very powerful creature that I love having in the Stax matchup.

1-4 REB/Pyroblast- Great for the Control matchup, also when facing certain Fish builds as well. I haven't decided the final number, but you used three, how did that work out for you?

I'd like to discuss different lists on here anytime, I dont mind explaining personal suggestions and modifications I made to the list, as well as improvements that are best to be fixed.

//wtp.

[Myriad Games]

Interesting choices. Here are my thoughts based on your latest deck choices.

The Mountains Win Again really is a very flexible deck; it has an excellent ability to adjust and customize for any given metagame.

I think if you're running Confidants you absolutely need to run 4 Mishra's Factories and a full complement of Wastes and Strip; the synergy there is unmistakable.

I can understand the argument for three Grunts, but less than that would be unreliable in a deck that relies on redundancy over search or extra drawing. Your comments on the manabase instability of Stax / Fish matchup after adding a third color are valid, which is why I'm reticent to add too many black cards in the main. Even adding Demonic, Vamp, 4 Dark Confidant, and Darkblast provides a much higher probability that you'll end up with inconsistent mana costing you games, especially against anything with mana denial.

Swords to Plowshares is incredibly versatile and powerful. I cannot justify running fewer than four in the maindeck, especially when you note that Jotun Grunt is a force to be reckoned with.

The additional burn spells help ensure that you have an answer for creatures when you need it. Adjust them for how many creatures you expect to see in the metagame. Welders, Confidants, various Fishies and other random aggro creatures, they all need to be eliminated and red has some of the best tools for taking care of them, permanently.

REB / Pyroblasts are essential in the sideboard.

Kataki is very strong against Stax. Remember Sacred Ground as well.

Thanks for the deck and feedback. Keep the comments coming!

[wethepeople]

Feedback on your feedback  :

Your comments on the manabase instability of Stax / Fish matchup after adding a third color are value, which is why I'm reticent to add too many black cards in the main. Even adding Demonic, Vamp, 4 Dark Confidant, and Darkblast provides a much higher probability that you'll end up with inconsistent mana costing you games, especially against anything with mana denial.

I didnt really think about it that way, but I understand where exactly you are coming from. I however feel that Dark Confidant is worth being a 4'of, however the others arent exactly necessary. Darkblast was something that didnt really cross my mind when added, it was just something I am used to running as a 1'of in most decks that run Tutors, and with Jotun Grunt it had fairly good synergy. It wouldn't do much at all if you were to cut it, which I probably will for that last Swords to Plowshares, the best creature removal there is to offer.

Swords to Plowshares is incredibly versatile and powerful. I cannot justify running fewer than four in the maindeck, especially when you note that Jotun Grunt is a force to be reckoned with.

The additional burn spells help ensure that you have an answer for creatures when you need it. Adjust them for how many creatures you expect to see in the metagame. Welders, Confidants, various Fishies and other random aggro creatures, they all need to be eliminated and red has some of the best tools for taking care of them, permanently.

I chose to cut such burn spells, as well as a Swords to Plowshares, but after testing versus Fish with four maindeck I learned that they make it all the better, especially if I dont run other removal. (four are now MD on my list)

I think if you're running Confidants you absolutely need to run 4 Mishra's Factories and a full complement of Wastes and Strip; the synergy there is unmistakable.

This isnt absolutely necessary because really three Mishra's Factories isn't a huge change from three, but I am sure I could bring in the last one. I just found that running three colors made so much colorless mana a burden, yet at the same time I didnt want to change the list too greatly. (Hence why I only cut one.)

REB / Pyroblasts are essential in the sideboard.

Kataki is very strong against Stax. Remember Sacred Ground as well.

I didnt really put much thought into my sideboard when I put it together, I admit that the list itself is fairly old. I havent been modifying my TMWA w/black list much lately, but I have become interested in the deck again. I knew that REBs would be essential in the board, I just haven't determined the exact number quite yet. Sacred Ground was something I remember being great against Stax, and I want to be sure to use it whenever I run white. In most of my decks I just run Energy Flux, but without blue I cannot, so Sacred Ground is almost as good. Kataki is good, but it's no Energy Flux. I really like using him because he slows Stax/Workshop decks down quite greatly, as well as at the same time, beat. However unlike Flux, he doesnt really ruin their field because they can just tap out the Moxen, and save the others that they feel are  necessary to that point in the game. If I run Sacred Ground, I probably won't sideboard Kataki as well, that feels like too many Stax-targeted slots.

I will report further changes that I made to my list after testing more often. I am going to change it around a bit after getting a bit of a sample of the metagame after reading Myriad's recent most Tournament Report (Nov. 11), but for now it seems to work well. If Gifts/Combo/CS is big, I may even bring it to an upcoming tournament so I can take advantage of Hide/Seek. Any news on the next Myriad Vintage tournament? I was unable to make it to the one today because I had plans with a few friends of mine, but I certainly look forward to next one.

//wtp.

[Myriad Games]

Thanks for the reciprocal feedback. After playing the Darkblast on Saturday, the 11th, it didn't turn out to be that great. Nataz was kind enough to point out why that was, saying "You want Darkblast with a basic Swamp," meaning that the decks that you'll primarily use Darkblast against are going to be running Wastes and Strip to eat your black sources. I'm still not entirely convinced it's useless or great, but it's still worth testing. There were several times during the tournament where black cards were dead, further reinforcing my reticence to add too many in the main. If there are red or white cards that can fill the same slot then I prefer to use them.

Two copies of TMWA made Top 8 at Myriad Games on Saturday, one piloted by myself and one by Craig Dupre. Craig got to play against Dread Returns Ichorid three times! I'll try to type up a report as soon as I have time. It was a fun event.

We'll look forward to seeing you at our next Vintage tournament here at Myriad Games on December 9th.

[wethepeople]

Darkblast isn't bad if you run some burn spells, but often times they don't need the help of Blast. I updated my list a little which I will explain my reasoning in a moment.

TMWA w/blk:

Creatures [14]:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Jotun Grunt
3 Goblin Welder
3 Kris Mage

Utility [18]:

4 Hide/Seek
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Magma Jet
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Null Rod
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pyrostatic Pillar

Mana Base [28]:

3 Plateau
2 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 City of Brass
3 Flooded Strand
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Basic Mountain
1 Basic Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
3 Moxen
1 Petal
1 Blk Lotus

I made some minor changes to the list, all of which were ones that we had discussed before. I am not sold on the 4x Factories in three color because I do not like the excess colorless mana producers, especially when I need one specific color. Now Darkblast was cut for Swords to Plowshares #4 for rather obvious reasons, and I chose to still run the same number of burn. (3x Magma Jet) I really like Lightning Dart, I dont know if it was discussed here at all, but it pretty much reads.

1R
Instant
deal one damage to a creature, if its blue/white, deal four.

Dart has the ability to take out just about everything from Goblin Welder to Auriok Salvagers. In my sideboard I may run 1-2 because it is so strong versus Fish. If not, I want to have Diabolic Edict to Fish and Oath of Druids. (they tend to bring in Simic Sky Swallower in heavy-fish metas)

[Glix]

Could Shadow Guildmage be a better option than Kris Mage?  It seems that 1 damge is a lesser cost that discarding a card, and since you are running black he is in your colors.

Dart actually seems like a worthwhile inclusion considering the popularity of Salvagers as of late.  It kills every relevent creature in the format, except random stax monsters, effectivly and efficiently.  2 Mana may be a bit much, but it seems worth it, and should at least be tested.

[nataz]

Could Shadow Guildmage be a better option than Kris Mage?  It seems that 1 damge is a lesser cost that discarding a card, and since you are running black he is in your colors.

I've been trying to get him to run guildmage for like a month, but dan doesn't want to expand the black splash anymore then he has too. Dart however looks interesting.

[Myriad Games]

Dart is interesting in a creature heavy metagame since it can kill Grunt, but I generally prefer burn that can be aimed at the opposing player as well. If Lightning Dart is included, it should be primarily a sideboard card against Aggro, Fish, and Salvagers.

The Shadow Guildmage is a fine option, but I think the Kris Mage is better because it allows you to fill up the graveyard for Grunts and Grims. Also, the points of damage are not inconsequential in creature based matchups where life totals matter.