Pitch Long

[Mr. Nightmare]

This list isn't even remotely Pitch Long, as it contains precisely 0 pitch spells.  The whole idea for Pitch Long is to play Misdirection and Force of Will (that's where the name "Pitch" came from, you know).

It isn't even 3C Grim Long.  Nowhere in the list is there a Grim Tutor.

[Implacable]

And it has a grand total of two disruption spells, both of which are sorcery-speed, so good luck beating any opponent who plays with cards that disrupt you.

[Moxlotus]

And the most obvious...WHERE DID THE BRAINSTORMS GO???

Ok, I think we've established that deck isn't PL so let's just stop talking about it.

[Implacable]

Roger that.  ML, a while back, we talked about using Duress in Pitch as opposed to MisD.  Well, all that I can say is that I have had nothing but good results with it.  I don't know about you, but my local meta is absolutely infested with Trickbind, and Duress is our only answer short of Swarm.  Furthermore, Fish has been enjoying a national resurgence, and MisD is terrible against them.  Perhaps you might consider testing Duress.

[ErkBek]

Roger that.  ML, a while back, we talked about using Duress in Pitch as opposed to MisD.  Well, all that I can say is that I have had nothing but good results with it.  I don't know about you, but my local meta is absolutely infested with Trickbind, and Duress is our only answer short of Swarm.  Furthermore, Fish has been enjoying a national resurgence, and MisD is terrible against them.  Perhaps you might consider testing Duress.

Duress + FoW was the original list (Litz Long). Then duress became MisD and the deck became much better. The problem with Duress + FoW is then you are only running 14-6 blue cards, which can be problematic. MisD + Fow also gives you some more predictable draw 7 hands, so you know what mana to have floating.

[Goblin Nabob]

Roger that.  ML, a while back, we talked about using Duress in Pitch as opposed to MisD.  Well, all that I can say is that I have had nothing but good results with it.  I don't know about you, but my local meta is absolutely infested with Trickbind, and Duress is our only answer short of Swarm.  Furthermore, Fish has been enjoying a national resurgence, and MisD is terrible against them.  Perhaps you might consider testing Duress.

Then why not playing Grim Long again?
I tested both Long versions, and I like the 4 Duress + 1 Swarm a lot. Pitching blue cards can be very hard.
So I switched back to Grim Long.
IMHO the versions are not 100% different: sometimes a game is the same with Grim Long as it would go with Pitch Long.

[Implacable]

Because PitchLong has a vastly superior mana-base, and because I see no reason not to maindeck FoW.  I played GrimLong for several months, and the biggest problem that I had is that 2-3 early Strip effects meant big problems for mana development.  I have tried out JD's 2.5C Grim deck, but I just don't like the maindeck green.

[Komatteru]

Because PitchLong has a vastly superior mana-base, and because I see no reason not to maindeck FoW.

If you don't use Misdirection, then there's a good reason not to play Force of Will--you can't support it as well as you'd like.

I have tried out JD's 2.5C Grim deck, but I just don't like the maindeck green.

It doesn't have any maindeck green.

[memnarch]

   I like running duress over Force of Will in this deck for a few reasons. One, it stops Trickbind. Two, after I use it, I can Yawgmoth's Will it out of my graveyard again. In general it helps add to my storm count. I realize Force of Will can be a very necessary card in Vintage but as stated above you should be running lots of blue to warrant its inclusion. It definitely has advantages a first turn trinispheare can be devastating against this deck. But after weighing out the pros and cons, for this specific build, I prefer duress.
   About the Brainstorms. Nights whisper has basically taken the place of the Brainstorms and Grim Tutors in this deck. Usually, when playing this deck, one floats many black mana from the rituals. Blue mana should be saved for large draw cards like Timetwister. Try 4 Nights Whisper, its simply fantastic in this deck. I would rather have more random cards then tutoring for specific cards. Every card in the deck is usfull. Brainstorm is great, I just prefer having extra cards that I can play from my hand.
   In addition, I have 5 disruption spells (2 Duress, 2 Repeal, 1 Hurkyl's recall.). Now here is the area where I admit my deck may need work. I have done far more goldfishing then tough match ups. But the simple fact that this deck frequently goes off turn 2 Is in a way disruption in itself. Your opponent must prepare specifically for this deck. If you go first and go off turn two, there is a good chance your opponent will have one land out or will not be able to play a drain. That leaves Stifle, Force of Will and Misdirection and this deck runs duress. After shuffling though this deck a couple times I almost always find a Duress, so Stifle usually isn’t a problem.

[ErkBek]

After shuffling though this deck a couple times I almost always find a Duress, so Stifle usually isn’t a problem.

Dude you run 2 duress. Just play 3 or 4. Bounce spells don't do much of anything vs. drains. There is a build kinda like yours in the Improvement Forum called Win Long, you'd be much better posting your list there since your build is kinda like that deck.

[memnarch]

ok thanks I will.

[AJFirst]

Becker, you're such a control player at heart. Come over to the darkside; we have chocolate...

The problem I have with PitchLong is Force, even though it's way better on the draw and against Stax, but it's sooo much worse against Gifts which is really prominant right now. The last two tournements I've attended in the area consisted of Gifts, and hate-on-gifts Fish (with a little more combo and workshops showing up at pastimes last time), and Playing the beatdown is much more effective against Gifts. It allows you to be proactive rendering MisD's dead and burns counters more efficiently (in a game of attrition, not necesarily speed as much). This is how I see it:

Pitch counters are better than Duress because they have less impact on you comboing when protecting the win. It takes 2 black mana to get rid of two counters, but getting rid of counters like that hurts on the pitchlong plan too, having 2 forces is a little more likely thanks to MisDs, but having two and two blue cards all in hand that you don't need in order to combo, then the statistics start weighing against you.

Obviously this isn't what the deck was designed to do, but it seems like the more likely scenerio when looking at the metagame.
-AJ

[Smmenen]

In doing the Vintage year in review pieces, I was forced to look at the tournament data for every event this year.   In doing so, I followed up on a suggestion Diceman came up with in compliing top 8 finishes and top 4 and finalists for major archetypes.    I'm only spoiling a bit of my findings, but what I discovered was that Pitch Long, by far, is the best performing deck in terms of not simply top 8 performances to percentage of the metagame, but also in managing to make the finals at extremely high frequencies to percentage of the metagame.    Just an FYI that according to my limited statistical analysis, Pitch Long is the best performing deck in Vintage.     Of course, Dragon had an extraodinary time at Rochester, but it hasn't seen top 8s since.  That could change.  I cover all of this in more detail in vintage year in review part two.  But I thought it was interesting.

[Zarathustra]

      About the Brainstorms. Nights whisper has basically taken the place of the Brainstorms and Grim Tutors in this deck. Usually, when playing this deck, one floats many black mana from the rituals. Blue mana should be saved for large draw cards like Timetwister. Try 4 Nights Whisper, its simply fantastic in this deck. I would rather have more random cards then tutoring for specific cards. Every card in the deck is usfull. Brainstorm is great, I just prefer having extra cards that I can play from my hand.

Whisper costs twice as much.  Brainstorm also improves your hand, especially since you can keep 1 landers.  I don't see how Whisper is any sort of replacement for Brainstorm...  or Grim Tutor.

   

In addition, I have 5 disruption spells (2 Duress, 2 Repeal, 1 Hurkyl's recall.). Now here is the area where I admit my deck may need work. I have done far more goldfishing then tough match ups. But the simple fact that this deck frequently goes off turn 2 Is in a way disruption in itself. Your opponent must prepare specifically for this deck. If you go first and go off turn two, there is a good chance your opponent will have one land out or will not be able to play a drain. That leaves Stifle, Force of Will and Misdirection and this deck runs duress. After shuffling though this deck a couple times I almost always find a Duress, so Stifle usually isn’t a problem.

Repeal and Hurkyl's do not count as disruption.  They count as removal and for ways around hate.  You need 3 or 4 Duress or Force of Will.  Since Force of Will allows you to have an out for either hate or a faster combo deck before you can play land.  Force of Will is also a lot cheaper.  I still don't see how your deck can go off turn 2 with only 2 Duress.  Furthermore, I can't see the deck going off turn 2, period.  Much less with the frequency you so boldly claim.  Especially since you lack Brainstorm of all cards...

-DShizzle

[InfinityCircuit]

Although it's a bit of a different build, I've been exploring Smennen's 5C Pitch Long recently.  It's regular Grim Long with the following changes:

-4 Duress
-2 ESG

+4 Force of Will
+1 Misdirection
+1 Hurkyl's/Chain to complement your other bounce spell

I've been having some success but I was wondering what would be a good sideboard configuration.

In his original articles on SCG, he suggested the following set-up:

2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Burning Wish
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Orim's Chant

Unfortunately, comparing this setup to Pitch Long boards doesn't seem to do us much good because they take two forms.  Either they are stuffed with Massacres/basic lands to handle the stax and fish matchups or they are TK's creations with Thrashing Wumpus, Plague Spitter, etc.  In this case it seems Burning Wish is a better provider of a back-up win condition.  Nonetheless, I don't think this setup is optimal.  First, removing the ESGs from the main suggests we should add more ESGs to the board to shore up the Stax matchup.  In addition, Orim's Chant seems inferior to Duress.  Smennen later stated this himself in another article.  However, does anyone have any more concrete suggestions on what to change?