"go big or go home" Burning Slaver; Decklist

[forests failed you]

Okay, so I've been away for a while as a result of injury and travel; but that doesn't mean I haven't been playing Magic in the meantime.

I've actually been doing quite a bit of testing with my friends and I thought I would share what I've come up with as a result of this latest batch of testing with all of you guys.

Here is what I'm playing at the moment:

"Go Big or Go Home Burning Slaver"



Maindeck

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Time Walk
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction

2 Goblin Welder
1 Recoup
1 Burning Wish

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Mindslaver
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Memory Jar
1 Tormod's Crypt

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal

1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby

1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt

1 Tolerian Academy
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Snow Covered Island

Sideboard

3 Duress
1 Chain of Vapor

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Mind Twist
1 Isochron's Scepter
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Fire/Ice
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast



This deck is much more combo oriented that the orignal Burning Slaver lists.  Also, you will quickly notice that the Mana Denial element of my origional design has been entirely removed from this deck.  Here are the basic trade offs:

Things you give up:

Mana Denial elements:  Gorilla Shaman, Strip Mine, Crucible of Worlds, Sundering Titan
A reliable resource of threats and answers enabled by Goblin Welder:  ie, Sundering Titan, Duplicant, Crucible,
A Hard Lock over  your opponents turns :  Cow, Citadel
The god match up against Stax. down one welder and two shamans.

Things you gain:

Better mana base:  5 basic Islands
A much more focused combo kill with Tendrils
Higher concentration of blue spelss



I had been Tinkering around with Memory Jar, since it has had recent sucess in Slaver builds, only to discover for myself that Jar is the absolute Nut high.  It is such a powerful card and can lead to completely degenerate board positions very early on in a game.  Not to mention it allows you a Tinker targert that draws you cards.

As a result of adding Jar to the deck, I belive that a Jar'ed Slaver deck needs to move in a much more Combo oriented direction.  In order to maximize the efficiency of Jar.  As a result it seems only fitting that cards like Chain of Vapor and Rebuild be added to the deck as your key defensive, non counterspell, spells.  Since they work double duty as win conditions as well as threat removal.  Also, I have added Lotus Petal and Led to the deck.  I have experience with these two cards in decks that run Welder and Will, and I promise you that their synergy is insane.  Especially with cards like Yawgmoths Will in the deck.  They make excellent fodder for TFK, and make your Jar ....  Will hands extremely deadly.

I've also switched from Titan to Colossus as a result of going down to two welders, in order to make room for Recoup in the main deck.  (which has excellent synergy with Jar and obviously Gifts).  This deck actually plays much closer to a gifts deck than a slaver deck, in the sense that you are the deck that is most likely going to be going off first. 

The main reason I've made the changes that I have is that I feel that Stax is a nearly non existent deck in the moment.  The good players are not playing it for a reason.  It doesn't have good match ups against the best decks in the format that all the best players in the format tend to be playing.  I wanted a Slaver deck that was much more geered toward beating up on opposing drain decks, had stupid Draws that could steam roll aggro, and was fast enough to stop combo quickly and then counter-kill it the next turn.



I've added some new cards to the board as well.  I've found that Isochron's Scepter is busted in a control mirror or against aggro match ups.  Also, bringing it in against oath and imprinting chain of vapor is kind of cool.  Fire Ice is another splendid card against aggro.  Against control simply putting a REB, or Drain is usually enough to win the game, or even something silly like Recall can be nice.

Also, I've found Boseiju, to be very helpful in dominating a control match up.  (if you run He who shelters all, Mind Twist is also a nice compliment.)  Well, thats pretty much the quick of it.

[Imsomniac101]

Looks like you're moving closer to SSB. 2 Welders seems too low. What made you put in LED?

[edit]

Also, I have added Lotus Petal and Led to the deck.  I have experience with these two cards in decks that run Welder and Will, and I promise you that their synergy is insane.  Especially with cards like Yawgmoths Will in the deck.  They make excellent fodder for TFK, and make your Jar ....  Will hands extremely deadly.

I guess reading is tech. But my orignal question still stands, has moving closer to SSB been a conscious decision or something else/?

[Eddie]

Also, bringing it in against oath and imprinting chain of vapor is kind of cool.

? Why wouldn't the oath player copy the chain and bounce the scepter? Fire/Ice would be a better target tapping their dude and drawing cards.

Looks good otherwise. Jar fits right in.

[GrandpaBelcher]

This deck looks a lot like a Gifts deck:

-3 Thirst
-2 Welder
-Slaver
-Jar
-Crypt

+3 Gifts
+3 Merchant Scroll
+2 Misdirection

Plus, you say it's focused more on a combo finish with Tendrils kill.  Is it better than Gifts at that?  Memory Jar and the ability to recur it would be huge, but is recuring Slaver better than Misdirection and a bunch of draw at disruption?  Should I (or anyone else) play this over Gifts?

I'm not saying the deck is bad; on the contrary it looks like it's got a lot of power available to it and I'm excited to test it.  It just looks like the blue-based combo-control decks that are prevalent in the format are becoming less and less distinct.

[BreathWeapon]

Despite HATING having to say things like this, why would I play this over Gfits? You lose Goblins Welders, which are the disruption element that gives you the edge against Prison, Workshop Aggro and Gifts. You lose the conventional Goblin Welder, Thirst For Knowledge, Artifact plan with only two Welders and two weldable Artifacts. You don't have Merchant Scrolls or Misdirections, which give Gifts the edge against Prison. This build isn't actually addressing any concerns, it's just getting a "better" manabase and a more intensive kill condition.

I would love to hear your justification for LED over LOA, I'm not seeing it.

Edit: Lochinvar beat me to it, but whatever.

[forests failed you]

All good questions.

Firstly, the text about Lotus Petal should have been about Lions Eye Diamond.  I blame lots of pain narcotic pain killers for the typo.

Secondly, if they choose to bounce your Isochron's Scepters by duplicating Chain, you can turn around and bounce their Oath.  Which sets them back an additional turn.  The drawback to bouncing one scepter, and being able to replay it, much out weighs their loss of a fatty and an Oath.  If you do it on EOT against Oath you can replay the scepter with a Drain on it and stop them from ever resolving an Oath.

Lastly, it really isn't a Gifts deck, so much as it is a combo deck.  It does look much closer to the early SSB lists.  It just so happens that I think a deck that looks that way is particularly good in the metagame right now.  If I were to play a deck that looked good at the moment, this is what I would play. 

Since the deck does have so many basic Islands it would be very easy to swap one out for a LoA.  I'm just not as big of a fan of the card as I used to be.  I agree it creates skewed games; but I usually don't need skewed games to win tournaments.  I prefer solid mana bases and reliably putting two Islands in play.  The deck is already running one less land than before, and with shaky mana sources such as LED and Lotus Petal, I think having Islands is tech.

2 Welders has tested fine.  There are less targets in the deck, and Welders are usually used to make insane amounds of Mana with LED and Lotus during a large will; or abusing Memory Jar and Mind Slaver.  The deck is much more focused on playing draw and counter magic, and then going off and doing very broken things around turn three.  Not to mention just having a Welder on board is usually enough to give opposing Workshop decks fits. 

The main reson that Welder is in the deck at all is that it has very strong Synergy with cards like Gifts that allow you to Gifts and usually resolve Welder, Recoup, Walk all in one turn so you can win on the next.  Welder also makes time walk a big threat.

I'm not saying it is the best deck, or even that I would recomend it to any other player over any other deck.  I'm also not saying that it is particularly original.  Gifts and Slaver are established decks already, and everybody has tested pretty much every card that can possibly go in the deck.  The key is to finding the right mix for the metagame. 

All I'm saying is that this is my list at the moment, and it is very powerful and I have had great success in testing it.

The thing I like least about Gifts decks are that they are filled with GIfts Ungivens; and the thing I like least about Slaver decks are that they are filled with Goblin Welders.  There has to be a happy medium between the two... and that is what I'm searching for.  Rarely do I need to cast Gifts more than once in a game ever to win... The key is that Gifts has to be cast at the right time and under the exact right cirumstances.  The same with Welder, seldom do you ever need more than one to win the game.  Nor, do I believe it is truely necessary to cast a Welder or a Gifts in order to win a game, I just like to have those options available to me within my deck.

Losing the COW, Shaman and Third Welder does give Stax better game against this deck, which is why having 5 Basic Islands is so key.  Also, aggro decks are playing Stifle at the moment which makes me hesitant to rely heavily on Fetches.  I'd much rather my turn one play be Island go.

@Breathweapon..  don't underestimate a more intensive combo kill condition.  Being able to kill people quickly and efficienty is a great boon to any deck
. 

[LessThanRight]

I've been messing with a very similar list and find that I play this deck like a control deck with a very fast recovery speed.  If you can counter the first threat (or two), the combo focus allows you to either win right there, or re-fill your hand with counters, or set up a controlling board position.  In a fast environment like we have today, you need to be actively winning every turn.  When you and your opponent are in top deck mode, you are just begging to be crushed.  You can't afford to sit and watch your opponent play without forcing some interaction.  This is a great list for today's meta.

[BreathWeapon]

I'm not underestmating a combo finish, I'm just deliberating on whether or not a Combo finish is worth it. Even if you are only playing with a single Gifts Ungiven, I still think the back bone of the deck should be 4 Merchant Scroll. You have all sorts of sub-par cards like Fact or Fiction, Vampiric Tutor, Chain of Vapor, Tormod's Crypt etc that could be cut for a full set of them and you'd be all the better for it.

Honestly, instead of adding Gifts into Control Slaver you may want to consider doing it with Oath. 5 more Tinkers and Reclamation sound a lot better than a couple of welders and artifacts.

[Methuselahn]

I don't get this list.  My first thought is:  Why would I play this over any other standard Gifts deck?  It's a non optimal Gifts deck which loses to the CS mirror match.  It looks like the list lacks focus.  My suggestion is to play an established combo deck over this comboized Burning Slaver.

When you add Recoup to a deck, you fundamentally change what the deck does.  It becomes a Gifts deck.  You have a predetermined plan as to how the deck will play out.  It's no longer plays the same game as what Control Slaver plays.

Multiple disadvantage tutors?  No Library?  LED?  Fact + Jar, with only 2 welders?  Isochron Scepter? This is how you win the control mirror??

I'm not sure why you have gone down to 2 welders, despite your reasoning.  Jar and Fact make welders even better, and you have gone down to an inconsistent 2.  Two welders means you have to dig for one when you need it.  This is seriously gross.  You  don't want to have to tutor for Welders when you need them.  I'm not sure we can really debate this as it does boil down to consistency.  Maybe if you don't like 3 welders, then you should choose a different weapon (deck).

The main reason I've made the changes that I have is that I feel that Stax is a nearly non existent deck in the moment.  The good players are not playing it for a reason.  It doesn't have good match ups against the best decks in the format that all the best players in the format tend to be playing.  I wanted a Slaver deck that was much more geered toward beating up on opposing drain decks, had stupid Draws that could steam roll aggro, and was fast enough to stop combo quickly and then counter-kill it the next turn.

1.  But you have made the deck worse at 'beating up on opposing drain decks.'

2.  Faster combo steam rolls aggro better than Slaver.

3.  Please explain why you have to counter-kill it the next turn.  I thought traditional control decks just needed to keep control of the game and then can win slowly (relatively speaking).

Slaver is so passe right now.

[GrandpaBelcher]

I see that this is more combo-y than previous versions of Slaver, but that's because previous versions of Slaver were more controlling, more even than Gifts a lot of times.  Now it seems like the big artifacts would just get in the way of the combo game plan.  Wrecking someone with Mindslaver is such a gigantic play that focusing on doing that early would be just as good as focusing on an early DSC or Tendrils.

Burning Slaver was great because it played an awesome control game early and won the game based on that, whether with huge grinding artifacts or with a combo.  Plus, it would combo out early every few games and win really fast.  Now, it seems like, yes, GBoGH Slaver wins faster than Burning Slaver, but that it wouldn't do it as fast or as efficiently as Gifts, which has a more dedicated plan toward setting up a game ending combo and that doesn't have two huge artifacts to worry about Welding or hard casting.

I can see why you, personally, Brian de Mars, would play this over Gifts, since you've repeatedly proven yourself more familiar with the Slaver cards and how to best use them, but is this really better than a Gifts deck for the metagame?  Couldn't Gifts drop three cards for a Memory Jar and two Welders and be able to do the same thing, but better?

Welder seems to have an odd role in this deck.  You rely on it for recurring your powerful artifacts and for disrupting Stax, but you only run two, which means those two draw all the fire that would normally go to three or four.  You've already said that Welder has "very strong Synergy with cards like Gifts that allow you to Gifts and usually resolve Welder, Recoup, Walk all in one turn so you can win the next."  Why not exploit that more and play 3-4 Welders in a deck with 3-4 Gifts and more powerful artifacts to Gifts for and Weld from the graveyard?  Isn't that Slaver?

This list looks so similar to Gifts to my eye; even just switching the ratio of Gifts to Thirsts would make them almost the same.  It looks like there are two plans in this deck: one controlling with big artfiacts and one Tendrils kill, and it seems like the deck would do better focusing on one.  I'd rather see two distinct and powerful decks than one "Best Vintage Combo-Control Deck" that seems kind of muddled.

I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record on this, but I'm just trying to understand.  

[forests failed you]

Okay, I think in order to make sense of your questions you have to first take a big step back; and not think of things so boldly as having "gifts" or "slaver" qualities.  Firstly, the more I play the more I realize that Gifts and Slaver are fundamentally the same deck at their core.  They are Mana Drain/Yawgmoth's Will decks.  The difference between them are the few different methods through which the enable Yawgmoth's Will and set up their Kill.

Slaver does it through enabling Goblin Welder to control the board, while Gifts does it through setting up very quick Yawgmoth's Wills, by quickly tutoring up all of the combo cards.

However, the more I play Slaver the more I realize that they key to maximizing the efficiency of Welder is not actually by cheating big robots into play; but rather via making mana and setting up additional interactions with your graveyard and your opponents graveyard.  The best card to be welding over the course of a close game, in my opinion, is usually Black Lotus, because it allows you to very quickly out tempo an opponent who doesn't have the same luxury.

Furthermore, I do not regard Goblin Welder as a 'good' or 'powerful' card in its own rite.  it is a creature.  Welder does not wn matches.  Moxes win matches.  Yawgmoth's Will wins Matches.  Tinker win matches.  These are the cards that designates one's fate during a match.  However, Goblin Welder is an enabler for these cards.  Or rather he speeds up the amount of Mana and the quality of Artifacts your opponent controls (as well as protects you from opposing Tinkers)/  In my eyes, Welder is just not a good enough card to be the backbone of a deck.  Rather, I see Welder as an enabler and a tempo based threat.  Not to mention drawing multiple Welders early can end up costing one the game.

Magic is a game where the most important thing one can abuse is tempo.  This deck attempts to abuse and use tempo to win matches.

I regard Gifts Ungivevn in the same light I hold Welder.  It is a great card functionally, but I don't see it as a card I would like to build my deck around and rely upon to consistently win me matches.

This deck is designed around the cards that actually matter, and I approached building this revised list with new perspective.  This list is about finding and abusing Walk, Will, Jar, Tinker and Recall as quickly and as much as possible and at all costs;  while at the same time maintaining integrity of defending itself against quick threats that would hinder its game plan.

I ask you guys this: 

Why would you want to play a deck packed with Goblin Welders and Gifts Ungivens?  Are there not enough powerful tutors in the format to find them when you need them?  Or, rather, how important is redundancy of strategy when one has access to so many powerful tutors and control cards?


  I have never been convinced that playing more than one Gifts Ungiven in Drain deck was good;  because I only ever needed to play the spell once to win a game.  Similarly, I never liked Welder in multiples because I never needed more than one to win. 

I don't believe in redundancy as the optimized strategy for a Vintage Mana Drain deck.  I simply don't think it is the way to build the best deck possible.  Vintage is filled with more powerful spells than Gifts and Welder and I intend to use them!   The prime goal of building an optimized drain deck in my eyes is, and always has been, versatility.

The reason I think this deck is "good" is that it is focused enough to play quick threats and defend itself... but also, the threats are diverse and difficult to answer and double as solution cards.

For all of my Welder bashing:  What makes Welder a playable card is that he plays offense and defense.  The same goes for Rebuild and Chain of Vapor (as they generate storm), or even Burning Wish.  The deck can be extremely aggressive in a goldfishing situation, as well as very defensive when it is under attack.  Sometimes the same hand can be played defensively or offensively depending upon what one's opponent is up to on the other side of the table.  Yet, after the deck has successfully defended itself, it has the tools to quickly turn around and win the game in a turn or two.

To summarize:

I don't see Slaver and Gifts as particularly different or unique.  They are cards that get played in Mana Drain decks.  I don't think enough is gained via redundancy that there is reason to not put the two decks together and have varied threats.  On the contrary, I think that the threats have fantastic Synergy togeher.


I have recently discovered something.  Playing threats is tech.  Putting an opponent on the defensive  forces that player to have to make decisions and allows you to out play people.  Not to mention it forces them to have answers.

First and foremost, this deck is filled with powerful cards that are also versatile.



Also in my opinion Mystical, Vamp, Crypt and Fof are all better cards than Merchant Scroll.  Scroll leaves you very vulnerable to Duress early on in the game.  Where as Vamp and Mystical help protect your key spells from Duress while finding them at opponent's EoT.  Crypt is a necessary evil in the current metagame full of decks that rely on the yard.  And FoF when resolved is extremely powerful (yet cutable, and argueably the weakest card choice for this deck).

Also, LoA could very easily be added in place of an Island/  I've been testing with and without.  I never felt I needed it to win games... and would rather just make Blue Mana.  The deck already draws lots of cards, more than Gifts or Slaver;  especially by abusing Jar when it is going off.



DO NOT underestimate Isochron's Scepter;  I have won multiple pieces of power on the back of this card as well as q'd for a pro tour with it.  It can very easily swing games by entering play.

P.S.  If the best card you can think of to tutor for is a Welder, ever, you are most likely a buffoon.

[ErkBek]

Interesting list Brian. I made a post a in the improvement forum about cutting recoup from hybrid slaver gifts decks, but recieved no response. I personally really like the synergy between burning wish and skeletal scyring, would you ever consider cutting recoup in favor of scyring?

[UniversalSnip]

<---- Not a vintage player.

It seems like you're approaching welder as a disruption spell.

[Pave]

I applaud your playing cards you like, Brian (Scepter, for instance), and your insight above.

Making of Slaver a faster combo deck by means of Jar points me, personally, in the direction of Slaver lock via Pentavus.  Have you considered that direction?  If you can Jar or Slave once it is not hard to assemble.  He replaces Collosus, serving admirably against both aggro and stax and in the production of both mana (with Tolarian) and a combo finish.  You are more vulnerable to Null Rod but Jar already produces this heightened vulnerability and cards like Chain, Rebuild or Repeal serve double-duty in defense and offense (as combo-enabler), as noted.  Panty-lock means keeping three Welders, though.

How are only 14 lands?  Are you finding that you actually 'need' Welder in order to produce mana finally because you have so few lands?

EDIT Is Severence-Belcher not good enough in this deck because the cards are too dead on their own?

EDIT2 Your insight some time ago that Goblin Welder is the actually the worst card in Slaver changed the way I play the deck for the better.

[Kowal]

Why would you want Pentavus?  The lock is irrelevant when you swing for the win in two turns.  If you can generate a Pentavus lock, but you can't get two artifacts, there's something seriously wrong with your play.

As for the on topic stuff--  LED seems awfully sketchy.  It's not even all that great with a draw7, but you haven't got that option.  Seems to be the very definition of win more, given the only time I'd actually want it is with Welder and Will.  Given the already mildly shaky nature of your manabase and the, well, hideous lack of Library, I'd swap out LED for Library in a heartbeat.

[Pave]

Why would you want Pentavus? The lock is irrelevant when you swing for the win in two turns.

You can't weld in Collosus, and with Jar dumping so many cards that can increasingly be a lost opportunity.

As for the on topic stuff-- LED seems awfully sketchy. It's not even all that great with a draw7, but you haven't got that option. Seems to be the very definition of win more, given the only time I'd actually want it is with Welder and Will.

First, LED is that great with a draw7 - and you play against them more often these days.  Brian would want it with Welder and Will but also a Jar activation (a draw7) and Burning Wish for Tendrils.

[Kowal]

Why would you want Pentavus? The lock is irrelevant when you swing for the win in two turns.

You can't weld in Collosus, and with Jar dumping so many cards that can increasingly be a lost opportunity.

As for the on topic stuff-- LED seems awfully sketchy. It's not even all that great with a draw7, but you haven't got that option. Seems to be the very definition of win more, given the only time I'd actually want it is with Welder and Will.

First, LED is that great with a draw7 - and you play against them more often these days.  Brian would want it with Welder and Will but also a Jar activation (a draw7) and Burning Wish for Tendrils.

Question the first:

That's completely irrelevant.  Who cares if you can't weld it in?  You're DRAWING FIFTEEN CARDS THIS TURN.  If you can't find Tinker, a tutor, a Yawg Will, or a method of getting Tendrils, you're a failure at life.  Ultimately, failing to find any business in fifteen cards is a statistical anomaly that borders on the impossible, and to assume you'll have to deal with it more than once in a lifetime is a folly.

Question the second:

No, it's not that great.  You're getting three mana at the price of wagering your entire game.  In addition, consider the following odds:

1) Times that having LED instead of Library will win you a game (maybe once a tournament, if you're absolutely freaking lucky)
2) Times that having Library just made you win, period (this is at least twice per tournament for me, usually more)
3) Times that LED will fuck you by not making mana now (at least once a tournament)
4) Times Library will fuck you by not generating colored mana (this hasn't happened to me in a long time, given that Library is good at digging you out of the "oh fuck I need more colored!" issue)
5) The number of times the above happens, but LED would be "good enough" (never seen this happen outside of a deck running Wheel of Fortune and Grim Tutor)

While I applaud the idea of testing new things in Control Slaver, especially to further the combo element of the deck, I think LED is unbelievably wrong.  Maybe Brian can clear this up at least a little bit.

[Gabethebabe]

I agree with Kowal here. I haven´t of course tested this deck, but after a first glance at the list I decided I would never play this.
I would certainly cut LED for something else (3rd Welder/land). Also I prefer Titan over Colossus because the disruption is plain awesome, especially when I face Swords all day in a non-proxy meta.

The idea of Jar in BS looks like pretty good though and deserves testing. It has synergy with the whole deck.

[forests failed you]

LoA is not a guarenteed win, by any means, under any circumstances.  Of all of the drawbacks that LoA has, (which corrospond to the many fantasticly powerful benefits it also exhibits) is that it demands one play a different style of game.  The style LoA demands you play is a very slow one, where u are hold spells and not quickly accelerating and winning.  You are abusing plus one card every turn.  Slaver can draw often draw more cards just by casting Thirsts and FoFs and winning.  No doubt free cards from a land is great.  My point is in a combo deck like this, I have no problem sacrificing a situational few cards over a few turns for explosiveness and a quick kill.  The fact that the deck has LED and Lotus lets you make tons of mana Very quickly and allows you to turn turn two Drain stops into turn around kills with Tendrils.  That is, you Drain there turn two main phase play and untap and win.

I'll put it to you this way.  In my opinion Smenen is the best player in Vintage today; for the simple reason that I think he is ahead of the curve on understanding how the format works.  Notice what style of deck he plays:  Straight up Tendrils.  There is really something to be said for putting it on your opponent to make difficult decisions correctly or die.  I want to play a deck that can randomly kill people for no good reason, and has stupid draws where your opponent has to make perfect decisions based on imperfect information.  However, I still believe decks that play four Mana Drain and Four force of Will have a tremendous power level edge over decks that don't. 

In order to have the 'best' deck in Vintage:  I think that you have to play the most powerful spells, have a tight fit in the metagame, not play too many mirror matches where luck is involved, and be able to protect yourself. 

Have you ever played those games with Slaver where you have LoA on the draw against Gifts and keep.  And then they accelerate out and kill you very quickly, before LoA can take effect?  I want a deck that puts my opponent in a position where two extra cards by turn three is not going to cut it, and they are going to die because the power level of my spells and the quality of my threats was such that they could answer them quickly enough.  Yet at the same time I want to be able to protect myself from decks doing the same thing... that is playing powerful spell, and have the ability to force my own agenda with Drains and Forces.

LED conditionally gives you busted mana.  I'm in.  To hell with card advantage, to hell with power levels, none of that matters... in comparision to busted mana.  Free mana, is never fair... ever.

[CopperLeaf]

With LED and the more combo oriented win the new focus, and considering that it already plays a draw 7, would wheel be worth considering, since it dumps to the yard and draws a lot of cards?  Or is it just giving the oponent the chance to stop you?

[Mantis]

I have a passion for cards that do broken things as it just wins you so many random games. With LED going broken is obviously a bit harder than with cards like Lotus, but I still believe being able to use LED successfully can give you a major boost towards winning the game. In this particular deck, LED is hardly ever dead weight. The following reasons support my thinking:

• Is another artifact for TfK, Academy, Welder and Tinker.
• Can be sacced in response to Recall, TfK, Jar, B. Wish, FoF etc.
• Can be a Gifts target in the pile: Recoup, Will, Lotus, LED (a very powerful pile imo.)
• LED in the graveyard is just insane when going off with Will.
• In the situation where you absolutely can not use it, you can always shuffle it back with Brainstorm.

The only thing I pitty about this list is having to use Recoup once again, but unfortunately there is no other way to make Gifts work properly.

I applaud your playing cards you like, Brian (Scepter, for instance), and your insight above.

Agreed. Excellent list FFY, I truly like your innovations.

[Dakkon]

LED is even more broken with recoup, it allows him to use recoups flashback even easier which means an easier time casting yawgmoths will after gifts, and since LED would be in the yard its easier to go off from there. Its a perfect fit for the playstyle he wants.

What I dont get is why your trying to play burning slaver with more combo. Why not just play a gifts variant or a tendrils build?

[MaxxMatt]

@FFY

I tried the list and I appreciated it a lot.
Good work!

I switched ToA with Brainfreeze and added ToA inside as backup winning condition.
When you are going off, playing 10 spells and win or 15 and deck the opponent is really a non-issue.
When you can't play a lot of spells in order to win, DSC and Slaver are the ways to follow

Brainfreeze is in-color and cover a different role compared to DSC.
It is *safer* in that build, especially because with Chain/Rebuild and Brainfreeze you can try to go off with only blu mana, without the need of secondary colors.

DSC+B.Wish+Brainfreeze are good ways to kill opponents, each one is different from the other and work better in specific situations.
 
Storm hate? DSC
A lot of life or little to no cards in the deck? Brainfreeze
Huge Y.Wills and control game? B.Wish and ToA



I cut LED for LoA because LED forced me to mulligan a couple of times by itself.
Even if it can be broken, his being worse when alone or in your initial hand, let me realize that he could be cut for anything else.

LED is good but not necessary and alone or topdecked is awful.
LoA cover different roles and it has no real drawbacks.


I felt really satisfacted by the draw engine.
TFKs, Gifts and Restricted cards are enough to guarantee a lot of cards in hands.
I would cut on among Mystical or Vampiric tutor to make space to M.Scroll.

It would search for the winners as much as the boucners or counter/drawers.
I like it a lot when I tried during my last matches.


Hope it helps

Maxx

[forests failed you]

The last two cards to finally be cut from the maindeck were a lone copy of Merchant Scroll and LoA.  Both of these cards could very easily make it into the maindeck by moving other cards around.  This isn't an "authoritative" list, its merely the list I am playing at the moment.  I think the meta game is good for playing mroe aggressive decks, but in either case, LoA and Scroll are both worthy and powerful cards that could easily move into the maindeck here. 

I could also see a case for playing Brainfreeze in the maindeck.  Especially if Merchant Scroll were to make a comeback in the main deck.  Brainfreeze also has random synergy with the sideboard Isochron's Scepter.  I could also see running a maindeck cunning wish, putting fof in the board, and moving the brainfreeze to the sideboard.  However, my one concern in running Brainfreeze maindeck is that it does very little on its own, and doesn't have a wide range of versitle functions.  The so-called narrow cards I run, are not so narrow as they appear at first sight:  Chain of Vapor, Rebuild, Burning Wish, et cetera.  They all do a lot of different things:

As far as Brainfreeze goes:

It can be a win condition.
It can essentially counter Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, or post board be good against a Brainstomr in response to your Duress.

It can pad your Graveyard before a game ending Yawgmoth's Will.


It does stuff, but id doesn't, do anything against Stax, and is nigh worthless against Oath, since they play blessing.

I would say too inconsitent in the MD, but DEFINATELY worth looking at as a sidebaord option, especially with cunning .wish

[LordHomerCat]

From the sounds of it FFY, you seem like you just want to play Gifts.  You want to win out of nowhere, you want to keep Forces and Drains, you want to put a ton of pressure on your opponent and play as much broken mana as you can.  Why don't you just cut Mindslaver and Goblin Welder altogether and just play a Gifts or dedicated Tendrils deck?

[PipOC]

Have you considered cutting FoF for another gifts now that you're running recoup?  It looks much more coherent with the combo style you've adopted.

[GrandpaBelcher]

I'm inclined to agree with LordHomerCat.  When you say "I have never been convinced that playing more than one Gifts Ungiven in Drain deck was good;  because I only ever needed to play the spell once to win a game," you seem to be contradicting yourself.  If Gifts is good enough to win you the game after casting it once, why not run as many as possible?  Not to mention the fact that sometimes the tutors you would use to GET the Gifts can often be better as part of the Gifts package themselves.

If you want to run Welders as half-disruption/half-toolbox (as you seem to be doing here) it just seems like Gifts Ungiven would do so much for you and therefore warrant 4-of status.  With Welder on the board and some available mana, a package of Lotus, LED, Slaver, and Jar would be enormous.  Not playing 4 Gifts makes your deck look underpowered compared to similar decks that do play 4.

[forests failed you]

From the sounds of it FFY, you seem like you just want to play Gifts.  You want to win out of nowhere, you want to keep Forces and Drains, you want to put a ton of pressure on your opponent and play as much broken mana as you can.  Why don't you just cut Mindslaver and Goblin Welder altogether and just play a Gifts or dedicated Tendrils deck?

Because the interaction between Welder and Memory Jar is the most broken interaction a Drain based combo deck has.  Not to mention Welder plus Mindslaver is pretty good too.

The thing is, if I played Gifts, without Welders, I would still play a Slaver to Tinker and Hard cast.  Just as a one shot sort of thing.  Slaver is the most powerful "Big" effect other than Will, Necro, and possibly Desire.

[Imsomniac101]

I think alot of people are missing the point of the Welders. I think people who are puzzled by two Welders are thinking of using them in the traditional Slaver way, where as in this deck, I think that their primary use would be to abuse Lotus and LED, much the same way like 2-land Belcher does.

Have you considered cutting FoF for another gifts now that you're running recoup?  It looks much more coherent with the combo style you've adopted.

I've been wondering the same thing. Why not cut some of the random controlish elements like T. Crypt and just run more comboish cards?

I don't think LoA is the right card for this deck. It just inhibits your ability to accelerate into a win. I know in combo decks, you really want coloured mana, and LoA just gets in the way of that.

[Mantis]

Tormod's Crypt is certainly not a random control card. It allows you to go for the Tinker Colossus plan even when you are facing opposing Welders by simply targetting yourself by Crypt. You also run Welders to recur your Crypts and don't forget about Jar. It could potentionally dangerous to let your opponent have a full graveyard.