How important are running basic (is)lands in today's meta?

[VegasJake]

Hi,

I'm trying to get into competitive T1 Magic after taking something of a hiatus from MtG tournaments.  I've read TMD off-and-on for years though, and the old Beyond Dominia before that.  Anyways, enough about me.

I remember sometime while BD was still in existence there was a mono-U deck that ran 4 FoF, 4 Morphling, and relevantly for my subject here, 4 Back-to-Basics.  This card's existence, in addition to the traditional non-basic hosers like Blood Moon, Wasteland, and Dwarven Miner, pushed multicolor decks like Keeper to add a few basic islands (a strategy made viable by the Onslaught fetches).

Well, time passed, FoF was restricted, etc., and it seemed that the non-basic hosers declined in popularity (even Wasteland), while from what I've seen (as of about a year ago when I was looking at T1 decklists more actively) most decks still play at least a couple basic lands.

My question to you all:  Is this really necessary in today's metagame?  Without a widespread use of cards like Bloodmoon or BtB even in sideboards, can we get away with running all nonbasics and thereby solidifying off-colors (or even adding a tertiary)?  If not, what do you think is a good number of basics to run in a 3-5 color deck (hopefully the answer to this question isn't too dependent on the type of deck)?

Thanks,
VJ

[cssamerican]

You need basics in any control deck because when you face decks like Fish, Stax or any other deck still playing Wastelands you can't afford for them to be able to disrupt your mana base at will. This is one of the reasons you don't see 4 and 5 color control decks anymore. As far as how many...the more the better, but it really does depend on the deck. Now if you are playing decks that utilize Crucible of Worlds (Like Stax) or you are playing a fast combo deck (Like a Long variant) then you can afford to run the full set of rainbow lands. This is because Wasteland becomes much less of a factor. Bloodmoon and Back to Basics are rare enough that at this time I wouldn't worry about them unless I hade a specific reason to, like if Smmemen wrote an acticle about how good Blood Moon is right now.

[LotusHead]

If not, what do you think is a good number of basics to run in a 3-5 color deck (hopefully the answer to this question isn't too dependent on the type of deck)?

Basics: 1-3 Islands
Fetchlands: 4 (or 5 or 6)
Non-Basics (Duals, Tolarians, etc): Whatever fits in your deck.

Look at your mana needs (as far as blue cards are concerned).  If you NEED to resolve a Gifts to win, 4-5 Basics is probably best.
If you only need 1 Swamp, 2 Islands to win (NorCal TPS, for example) then 3 or 4 basics is enough.
If you only need a lucky Brainstorm once in a while, 1 Basic Island is probably enough.

If you can combo off at any time, 0 basics should suffice.

If you play basic lands (Islands usually), then you have peace of mind mostly, even if Wasteland is rare.  STRIP MINE is run in many deck just to piss people off, and that tactic often works.

The real trick to outwitting Wasteland/BloodMoon is whether or not your deck relies on Non-Basic lands that don't produce Blue Mana. (Miishra's WorkShop and Bazaar of Baghdad come to mind).

[VegasJake]

You need basics in any control deck because when you face decks like Fish, Stax or any other deck still playing Wastelands you can't afford for them to be able to disrupt your mana base at will. This is one of the reasons you don't see 4 and 5 color control decks anymore. As far as how many...the more the better, but it really does depend on the deck. Now if you are playing decks that utilize Crucible of Worlds (Like Stax) or you are playing a fast combo deck (Like a Long variant) then you can afford to run the full set of rainbow lands. This is because Wasteland becomes much less of a factor.

As a rough estimate, would playing 5 fetches plus 2 basics in a slow(ish) controlling deck be enough basic-age against Fish or Stax?

Bloodmoon and Back to Basics are rare enough that at this time I wouldn't worry about them unless I hade a specific reason to, like if Smmemen wrote an acticle about how good Blood Moon is right now.

  Good point.  There's nothing like the internet to start huge trends.

[VegasJake]

If not, what do you think is a good number of basics to run in a 3-5 color deck (hopefully the answer to this question isn't too dependent on the type of deck)?

If you only need a lucky Brainstorm once in a while, 1 Basic Island is probably enough.

Could you clarify this?  I didn't understand what you were getting at.

If you can combo off at any time, 0 basics should suffice.

By "at any time", do you mean like a fast deck (like Long?) which doesn't need to set up its mana base through multiple turns? 

[xycsoscyx]

For the first part, I believe he means what he says.  Some decks only need to rely on that single Brainstorm here and there to generate the advantage they need.  Other decks absolutley MUST have that single color to win, so more basics are needed.  Many Fish variants only need mana, but they don't necesarily NEED that single Blue mana to win, it's just nice to have every now and then.

For the second part, yes, some decks just don't care about keeping lands out, they just want the versatility that duals and non basics can provide, even if they only get used once.

[VegasJake]

For the first part, I believe he means what he says.  Some decks only need to rely on that single Brainstorm here and there to generate the advantage they need.  Other decks absolutley MUST have that single color to win, so more basics are needed.  Many Fish variants only need mana, but they don't necesarily NEED that single Blue mana to win, it's just nice to have every now and then.

So...  the idea here is that the 1 basic island can be fetched for so that you can be ensured of being able to Brainstorm in spite of nonbasic hate?

[LotusHead]

For the first part, I believe he means what he says.  Some decks only need to rely on that single Brainstorm here and there to generate the advantage they need.  Other decks absolutley MUST have that single color to win, so more basics are needed.  Many Fish variants only need mana, but they don't necesarily NEED that single Blue mana to win, it's just nice to have every now and then.

So...  the idea here is that the 1 basic island can be fetched for so that you can be ensured of being able to Brainstorm in spite of nonbasic hate?

Many Oath builds run few actual Islands, for example.  They rely on a spell that costs 1G to win.  Sometimes, they REALLY need 1 Blue Mana for that brainstorm to dig for that counter or to put a Fatty back into the deck.

If Oath pops a fetch for Tropical Island (or Underground Sea), it is done with the expectation that those lands (trop, sea) will die soon, but said land did what it was meant to do: Duress opponent for the win, or play Oath for the win. 

1 or 2 Islands is all Oath really needs as far as Basic Lands.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Basic lands are fairly overrated, anyway; half the time you can just use a fetch to protect yourself, and fetching for a basic is like manascrewing yourself on purpose.  I started ICBM Oath out with 2 Islands, then cut to 1, and I just axed the last one.  Honestly, I never fetched it, and I occasionally lost games because I lacked the appropriate colored mana due to drawing the Island instead of a dual.  Slower control decks still need them, but something fast like Oath probably shouldn't bother with basics, especially if your meta is Stax-light.

[EnialisLiadon]

I largely agree with this.  I only fetch basics in the face of wastelands--which I'm beginning to see less and less of.  Because of this, I'm largely considering cutting an Island for a 6th fetch in my gifts list.

[warble]

Yes, absolutely necessary.  Don't be dumb.  If you can't get mana out through chalice and they have waste up you lose.  Period.  Unless you're winning on turns 1 or 2 you need basics.  Or if you can play through chalice and waste such as a workshop deck.  I get the feeling you're not asking about those decks, though.  You didn't mention ritual or artifacts or worldgorger.

To answer the second question, 2 to 3 is the accepted number in control.  I won't ever run more than 2 unless I'm running blood moon, because I'd actually rather have my own waste + strip engine than solidify defence against it.  It's that good to fight mana.  Hell, half of a stax deck is doing just that.

[zeus-online]

Everybody should start playing with all nonbasic mana bases....then i'd get to play one of my favoritte cards again:
Back to Basics!

Seriosly though...most control decks should run atleast 3 basics.

/Zeus

[nightmare]

yeah i run then in all the decks i play unless i am running a 5 color deck and then you really do not have the room for them

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! Failed to notice we have a set of rules over here, did ya? Every one of your posts breaks some (or in some cases all) of rules 1.2 (all lower case post), 1.3 (run-on sentences), 1.4 (no punctuation breaks), 1.5 (no paragraph breaks), 1.8 (incorrect spelling), 1.9 (excessive abbreviations), 4 (lack of content), and 6 (using red bold text). Way to earn your nickname. Consider yourself warned, and recommended for banning. Welcome to TMD!

- Bram

[FlamingCloud]

The fact that people are even asking this question is leading me to believe stax is going to be on the rise again very soon.

[Btown]

The fact that people are even asking this question is leading me to believe stax is going to be on the rise again very soon.

Interesting that you point this out FlamingCloud, as Stax has seen a revitalization in my area of late.  Some of our more-talented players have noticed this trend with mana-bases, and used stax to obviously attack them.  As history shows, this trend is far more likely to accelerate, then to simply disappear. 

Additional SB spots dedicated for stax in most decks maybe? . . .

Probably not yet, but basics are an auto-include in control decks.

Ryan

[VegasJake]

I appreciate all the constructive comments people have made here.

I'm still unsure of how many basics (2-4) I'll be running in near-term tourneys.  It will be interesting to see how the metagame/perceptions have shifted on the issue.

But I do hope not to play against Stax all day.