CounterBalance: The Ultimate in Control

[LotusHead]

CounterBalance
Card type: Enchantment
Casting cost: UU
Oracle text: Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, counter that spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the revealed card.

This baby should be at least a 1 of in any deck that thinks they are a control deck (12+ force/drain/brainstorm).

If an opponent plays a spell (say, Brainstorm, Welder or Duress) , you MAY reveal the top of your library. If it costs the same as the played spell, counter target spell. EDIT: The top of your deck will often be 1cc spells, so you may randomly counter stuff,

If an opponent plays a spell (say, Moxen accellerants, Lotus, Tormod's Crypt, Chalice for 0, Explosives for 0 (usually) ) , you MAY reveal the top of your library.  If it costs the same as the played spell, counter target spell. EDIT: the top of your deck will often be Land/Moxen and you may randomly counter stuff

How does CounterBalance fit into existing decks?

Simple: Decks that can produce UU with any regularity (blue control decks, like  Tog, Oath, TPS and Slaver, etc) and decks that run Dark Confidant/Sensei's Divinging Top.
In my particular case, I play SlapJack2k6 (Salvagers, Trinket Mages, Dark Confidant, 1 Sensei's Divining Top and lots of blue spells).

Trinket Mage puts CounterBalance over the edge with Sensei's Diving Top and it's obvious interaction with Dark Confidant.
Also, in my build (and any Bomberman lists that find room for Top), Top is the ultimate "Survive Topdeck Mode" card.

Anyways, Library manipulation with Brainstorm/Top, Top fetchability with Trinket Mage, brokenness with Dark Confidant, AND the fact that most T1 spells costs betweek 0-3 mana says CounterBalance will be a house for control decks.

As for what good multiple CounterBalances do? Simple.  If you have 2 in play, and you are unsure of what the top of your deck is, the 1st Counterbalance triggers, revealing goodness or not, and for 2nd chande of trigger of 2nd top...you either can manipulate the top of your library with a resolved Top, FutureSight/ Brainstorm/ Orcish Spy (yeah, I said it...) or the opponentss spell in question (say Brainstorm/Recall/Welder/Duress/MoxMonkey/PithingNeedle/DarkRitual) costs 1 mana.  Then activate top by drawing 1 and forcing Sensei's Diving TOP go on top of library, thus countering the 1cc spell.

What OTHER kind of decks can benefit from CounterBalance besides say, a TrinketMage/Top/Confidant one?

(there is almost NO chance that someone will convince me that CounterBalance doesn't deserve a slot in SlapJack2K6).

[policehq]

Wow, you even have the Auriok Salvagers to counter a Gifts Ungiven...

I've thought that it was the best card Coldsnap had to offer Type 1 because of Scroll Rack, Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Vampiric/Enlightened/Mystical Tutor, and heck, even Reclaim.

It'll take a while to figure out where it is best broken. I've been trying to make a new B/U Aggro using it, but there are tons of options.

-hq

[Prometheon]

Dammit. I was so excited becasue this card wasn't on ANYONE'S radar and I thought I'd break it in secrecy. I'm currently trying to perfect a straight U/B build with Tops, Confidants, and 3-4 Counterbalance.

[LotusHead]

Dammit. I was so excited becasue this card wasn't on ANYONE'S radar and I thought I'd break it in secrecy. I'm currently trying to perfect a straight U/B build with Tops, Confidants, and 3-4 Counterbalance.

Are you considering Trinket Mages for obvious Top/Confidant/CounterBalance interactions?

Izzet Guildmages for winning the Drain wars?

What do you have for the 3cc slot? (To counter Will, Tinker, Rebuild, Thirst maybe)?

My angle is "My existing deck plays Trinket Mage for Top anyways, why not through CounterBalance into deck"

Any other angles?

[policehq]

I don't get exactly how Dark Confidant is necessary for Counterbalance.

It could be worked into Artificer's Intuition or Trinket Mage decks, whether they are for Skullclamp, Top, or Phyrexian Dreadnought.

It could also just be synnergistic with the topdeck tutors and Brainstorm.

[LotusHead]

I don't get exactly how Dark Confidant is necessary for Counterbalance.

Dark Confidants are good in decks period.  They are safer with Top. CounterBalance is better with Top.

[Kowal]

The card doesn't really 'break' very much.  I've been testing a couple builds of Counterbalance themed decks the past two weeks or so, and the only one that really got my motor going was basically the same U/B Confidant/Top build everybody else built.  While the list did very well, it's actually just Crossman Control with four dead cards in it.  Counterbalance resolving never shifted a game in my favor, as setting it up generally meant I was well ahead anyway.  Furthermore, against many decks it's only relevant in the early game, and given its casting cost it's impossible to defend with Mana Drain that early.  Against a deck like Control Slaver, for example, you can often find yourself casting Counterbalance after the Goblin Welder had already resolved, making your Counterbalance kind of ineffective.

Furthermore, most of the devastating spells you encounter don't cost 1 or 2 mana.  Most of them cost 3:  Tinker, Yawgmoth's Will, Thirst for Knowledge, Wheel of Fortune, Grim Tutor, even Intuition or Crucible of Worlds.  Still more cost 4 or more:  Smokestack, Mindslaver, Memory Jar, Tendrils (though having a 4cc spell on top with Tendrils on the stack IS hilarious, I will grant)  If you're clouding your deck with tons of variable casting cost stuff, you'll constantly find your opening hands full of things you can't cast, and your Counterbalance will be even more ineffective at nailing setup cards like Brainstorm and Ancestral Recall.  Not to mention, you'll probably see duplicate Counterbalances!

Save the slots.  If you're going to play U/B Crossman Control, just do it and use the Counterbalance slots for useful things like removal or more card advantage/disruption.

[Machinus]

My question would be: wouldn't you rather be casting mana drain into a big spell next turn?

[LotusHead]

My question would be: wouldn't you rather be casting mana drain into a big spell next turn?

Duh!

For MY particular example (TMage/ASalv/SDTop/BobBeats.dec), Mana Drain is a 4 of for Drain Reasons(  a lone  or possibly 2 Counterbalances may make maindeck...).  Counter balance would be as a singleton, or a 2,3,4 of depending on testing arguements (The point of this thread)

1 CounterBalance Maindeck Guaranteed, 2 quite possible, 3-4, who knows? (It may be like the next Crucible 3 of in Crucible decks.)

New tech, innovations, or questioning of current decks that talk about Counter ballance is what this thread is about.

I have Zero Trouble tossing one of these bad boys into my current maindeck if I can get UU reliably.

How much do people care about knowing their opponent's top Library card? (given duress/CRutual or whatnot).

[Prometheon]

The point of Counterbalance isn't to tap out on turn two and then not have a counter for your opponent's game winning threat; it's to play when you've both run low on cards, in order to solidify a position and hopefully exploit synergies with other cards. When you and your opponenet are both in topdeck mode (and you can easily bring them there with early Duresses and countermagic), Counterbalance helps solidify your advantage by reducing their topdecking options (especially if you have a Top) because you can deny their Brainstorms, counters, and sometimes Thirsts.

I think that a Counterbalance deck naturally wants to run Top, and then becasue you run Top, you may as well run Confidant, because of their insane synergy. Also, I think that brainstrom may not be a 4-of in this deck (!!!). With Sensei's Top out, you can always counter a 1-mana spell (by using the top's ability to put it back on your deck) and thus CMC diversity may be an important factor to consider. Another interesting thing about Counterbalance is that it is an incredible way to protect your draw engine (Bob) against Darkblast, StP and Lava Dart. If your top card costs 1, your Confidant is invincible to every form of common removal.

I'll admit, it probably isn't great against Stax, but it does seem like it has great potential for drain mirrors, and looks like an absolute wrecking ball against combo if you can survive long enough for it to resolve. It's a Chalice of the Void for whatever your top card is that only affects your opponenet. That seems pretty strong to me.

[cssamerican]

This card has some problems that I don't think it can overcome. The casting cost conflicts with Mana Drain, which forces you make difficult decisions at times. It is almost impossible to play in the early stages of the game with Drain back up where it would be the most effective. It is mediocre to just plain bad without a Top in play, and even if you do get both pieces into play it still doesn't guarantee you will be able to counter what you want. In decks with small men like Fish or SS, Erayo just seems like a better choice because it speeds up your clock, which reduces the opportunities to play out of the lock.

People are getting too wrapped up about how good CounterBalance is when you have a Top and a Bob in play. If you have those two cards in play pretty much anything is good, judge the card on how good it is when you don’t have those cards in play. Decks today can't afford to run suboptimal cards just because they are good when everything else is going to plan, rather they need be running cards that give the best chance to force their plan (Win Condition) into action.

[Whatever Works]

I am not a huge fan of this card though I am still sure it will see alot of play. That being said I dont think it can be run as a singleton affectively.

This card is similar to something like grafted skullcap in that the more of them in play... The better the card is... 1 Counterbalance is nice in play, but when they stack on top of each other the card them becomes redicules at times.

[Yare]

To me, the reasons as to why this card is not so good are obvious with a comparison to Counterspell.

Counterspell - UU
- counter one spell of your choice
- pay the mana when you want to counter the spell

Counterbalance - UU
- counter as many spells as you can match up mana costs for
- reveal the cards you are drawing into, hit or miss
- pay the mana for the counter possibly pre-emptively, but not if it has to be set up with top/brainstorm/etc.

So, in my opinion, in order for this to better than Counterspell, you need to counter at least two spells, one of which has to be the spell you want to counter as opposed to the spell you merely can counter.  This is really the big issue for me.  As has been pointed out, even if you do counter two or three spells, if you miss on the big one (see: Yawgmoth's Will, Tinker), you're sunk.  This kind of library manipulation just does not seem realistic.  If you are able to pull this sort of manipulation off, I feel like you're better off just running some proactive way of winning rather than a reactive way of not losing.

I'm also fully aware that Counterspell is not the top of the line counter out there and that it is not worthy of play in most decks.  I just wanted to illustrate with an equally costed card to emphasize the superior ability of Counterspell to discriminate among spells that you want to counter.

I guess the card just comes off as "cute" rather than "good" to me.

[Purple Hat]

Counterbalance triggers have to be stifled before your opponent knows if it's gonna work.  this in and of itself makes it interesting when compared to counterspell, as it is essentially an uncounterable conditonal hard counter that stays in play over multiple turns.  if you get top or brainstorm it gets even better.  type 1 decks play a reasonably large proportion of the same spells and virtually nothing costs more than 3 mana so curves aren't particularly varried.  against a deck like stax you can just board them out.  you're not gonna use it to counter mindslaver, but you're probably playing 7-8 cards that cast on 1, 8-10 cards that cast on 2, 5 ish cards that cast on 3, 1-3 cards that cast on 4 and 4 cards that cast on 5.  that's a pretty varried mana curve that should allow your counterbalance to be useful.

also kowal, if you have a 4cc spell on top when someone casts tendrils it only counters the initial copy, counterbalance triggers when an opponent "plays a spell" storm trigger coppies don't count.

[Kowal]

That does not change the hilarity factor.

[TopSecret]

     This seems like a very strong card early in the game, especially in the Control Mirror.

It can randomly counter a lot of the Broken Acceleration... Moxen, Lotus, Sol Ring... etc.

Also, this thing is nuts with "Vampiric//Mystical Tutor in response" and "Brainstorm in response".
    Get my bomb to stop your bomb, then play my bomb. Maybe even with backup.

     It seems like this card breaks the control mirror wide open.

[warble]

     It seems like this card breaks the control mirror wide open.

Wider than a mana drain?  I think not.

[ashiXIII]

     This seems like a very strong card early in the game, especially in the Control Mirror.

It can randomly counter a lot of the Broken Acceleration... Moxen, Lotus, Sol Ring... etc.

Also, this thing is nuts with "Vampiric//Mystical Tutor in response" and "Brainstorm in response".
    Get my bomb to stop your bomb, then play my bomb. Maybe even with backup.

     It seems like this card breaks the control mirror wide open.

Izzet Guildmage is also very good at breaking a Drain mirror wide open. That card still sucks.

[LotusHead]

Counterbalance triggers have to be stifled before your opponent knows if it's gonna work.  this in and of itself makes it interesting when compared to counterspell, as it is essentially an uncounterable conditonal hard counter that stays in play over multiple turns.  if you get top or brainstorm it gets even better.  type 1 decks play a reasonably large proportion of the same spells and virtually nothing costs more than 3 mana so curves aren't particularly varried.  against a deck like stax you can just board them out.  you're not gonna use it to counter mindslaver, but you're probably playing 7-8 cards that cast on 1, 8-10 cards that cast on 2, 5 ish cards that cast on 3, 1-3 cards that cast on 4 and 4 cards that cast on 5.  that's a pretty varried mana curve that should allow your counterbalance to be useful.

Since I threw CounterBalance into my TrinketSalvagersBob build, CounterBalance has been broken against opposing Drain/combo decks, but almost worthless against Shop Decks.

I played about 6 games of Tendrils (me) versus Salvagers (my buddy).  Any time CounterBalance hit the table (and the Salvager player did indeed have Top out), I found it almost impossible to play around it. Top can be activated to draw a card/put top on top to guarantee that the top of his library was 1, and that hurt a lot.  To be fair, I suck at Tendrils and was playing the 4 Tendrils/3 Repeal list from the tourney forum.

CounterBalance may be a SB card meta's overrun by shops to shore up the combo/control matchups.

I found room for 2 CounterBalance by taking out 1 Bob and 1 Mana Drain. 

Perhaps CounterBalance will be broken by players who can't get their hands on Drains or can't find room to proxy them.

[df8251]

maybe brainstorm in response to whatever they are playing and draw three, now chances are atleast one of those cards in your hand should cost the same as the spell you are looking to counter, then put that card on top of your library, and reveal it. idk if that is too great, but it would work. i am going to play test 1 or 2 counterbalances in my mono blue deck. i dont think it would be half bad. however i am a noob and half.