My oath with 5 proxies.

[chrissss]

My oath with 5 proxies.

Mana 21

4 Forbidden orchard
4 polluted delta
3 underground sea
3 tropical island
1 strip mine
1 bayou (first turn duress and 2nd turn oath is difficult without a bayou in a most cases)
1 sol ring
1 mox emerald*
1 mox sapphire*
1 mox jet*
1 black lotus* (this might sound like crazy talk, but a lotus petal was equally good in 50 % of my plays, where a BL only gave me mana burn)


Combo 7

4 Oath of druids
1 Gaea’s blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 tidespout tyrant 

Blue spells 22

2 mana drain
2 counterspell (I only have 2 drains)
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for knowledge
1 Time walk *
1 Ancestral recall (my only P9….. for now)
1 misdirection
2 Stifle
1 Mystical tutor
Rushing river

Black spells 5

1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
3 Duress

rest 5

1 regrowth (not too sure yet, it can be great, but it can be a dead card)
1 crop rotation
4 chalice of the void

Sideboard

2 Triple S
1 Phantom Nishoba
2 stifle
1 Razia
1 tinker
1 DC
the rest should still be determinded, depends on my meta.


( * = proxies)

So this is my deck. I have tested it a lot against different decks, and its not too bad. It mostly loses against tendrils based combo decks though, if I don't have a stifle or fow.

the reason I don't play razia, is because I don't like her. 6/3 dies at lightning bolts ( if there are no other creatures, its so easy to kill) and I tested the deck a lot against red ( red destroys the spirit token, and bolts the angel) the tyrant bounces DC, and anything else. if My opponent plays a first or 2nd turn tinker, then I am fucked with either angel in play, while the tyrant bounces it.

Questions.

Why does no one use DC in Oath? It works well if you add a tinker in the deck, so that you have an alternate win condition.
Has anyone tried this? What should I change? in my meta there is a lot of control, some stax, some tendrils and a some random aggro/sligh decks which are mostly legacy/extended decks.

EDIT:

If I would play in a non proxi environment, I would go

- power 5
- 2Tfk

+ 1 underground sea
+ 1 tropical island
+ 1 mishras factory
+ 1 lotus petal
+ 2 impulse
+ 1 stifle

would this be a good choice?

[houseplant]

People don't run DSC in oath because he is slower then the angels

say you lay oath,

next turn oath up Akroma, 6 damage,
next turn oath up Razia, 12 damage - 18 damage total.

with only DSC

lay oath
oath up DSC - 0 damage
oath up DSC - 11 damage - 11 damage total

with angels and DSC

oath up angel 6 damage
oath up DSC 6 damage - 12 total

oath up DSC 0 damage
oath up angel 17 damage - 17 damage total


With fetchlands and everything 18 is usually enough to finish someone. and only if you get the DSC then angel do you get close to that. 2 DSC's is actually the slowest.

[zeus-online]

Actually, tinker/DSC is in his SB...alot of players do that.

/Zeus

[chrissss]

yes, I agree with your logic houseplant, but the reason why I asked, is more because of the reason that people tend to play a quick tendrils for 10-14 damage, so they can last a few more turns against the angels. with a DC in play, you dont have to worry about that. or even if your opponents play a random legacy deck with a few vintage cards, a DC is great. Nothing is worse than having a really good deck, and losing against a tweaked legacy deck from a guy who just wanted to play a T1 tourney for fun.

a friend of mine lost a few times because a random guy played like 16 creature removal cards, ( this was a tweaked T2 deck even) and he just hadnt anticipated this in his metagame.

anyway, I suppose this deck is ok since there arent many answers?
a deck with many answers gets more replies than a rather good deck, which I suppose is a good thing.

[Zarathustra]

the reason I don't play razia, is because I don't like her. 6/3 dies at lightning bolts ( if there are no other creatures, its so easy to kill) and I tested the deck a lot against red ( red destroys the spirit token, and bolts the angel) the tyrant bounces DC, and anything else. if My opponent plays a first or 2nd turn tinker, then I am fucked with either angel in play, while the tyrant bounces it.

Lightning Bolt is rarely played in T1.  I'd be more worried about Swords to Plowshares than Lightning Bolt.  Furthermore, you can easily shoot one of the tokens you give them with Orchard, so direct damage is hardly a problem.

Razia and Akroma are the two fastest win conditions for Oath.  Besides, I have no idea why you want to bounce DSCs or anything, just win.

Colossus and SSS are the best creatures to play in the sideboard.

yes, I agree with your logic houseplant, but the reason why I asked, is more because of the reason that people tend to play a quick tendrils for 10-14 damage, so they can last a few more turns against the angels. with a DC in play, you dont have to worry about that. or even if your opponents play a random legacy deck with a few vintage cards, a DC is great. Nothing is worse than having a really good deck, and losing against a tweaked legacy deck from a guy who just wanted to play a T1 tourney for fun.

I have no idea what you even mean.  You Oath up and Angel, they take 6.  Next turn they have to win, because on your turn you will be dealing them 12 more damage.  That's over two turns.  Chances are good that this will kill them.  Trying to kill with DSC takes a turn longer.  Which, in this format is FOREVER.  I have no idea how you figure the Angel plan is slower, DSC or any non-hasted creature adds a full turn to your kill.

[chrissss]

I will post the decklist of a friend of mine in a week, and then you will see what kind of deck it is. its a tendrils based deck, and also DC tinker in it. I lose to it all the time if a DC hits play. if they have it first, you have an angel, they attack ( you are at 9, they are at 14) you attack with both angels, and then they attack, and you die.

if your opponents is playing fetch lands, he will surely not let his life come to 18. everyone here assumes that your opponent is always at 18 life, which I do not get. either your opponents dont know how to play against oath, or their decks have too many fetch lands in them.


A tidesout tyrant isnt just for DC, but also for a lot of annoying permanents ( meddling, stax, dreadnoughts)

what can oath do against a dreadnought first turn? ( ritual, mask, noughts) each card is 4 times in the deck, so the chances arent that small seeing that card first/2nd turn.

[Pitlord]

If a DSC gets tinkered up while you have an oath on the table you can still win. They tinker, you oath, smash them to 14. They swing, you go to 9. You oath, samash them to 2. Then when DSC swings next turn you block with Akroma go to 4 life, and swing for the win next turn.

Assuming your opponent is at 18 life is actually pretty easy to do as well. Almost every deck in the format plays either at least 4 fetchlands, or 4 city of brass. Lots of decks also play mana vault and mana crypt, both of which can quickly put an opponent at or below 18.

The problem with a creature like tidespout tyrant is that it doesn't win you the game. It needs 5 turns after you oath to become lethal. It only bounces permanents when you play a spell and there aren't many permanents you need to bounce anyways. If your main concern is playing against tendrils based decks, bouncing things isn't that big of a deal. Sure, bouncing a few lands hurts them, but when your clock is as slow as a 5/5, they have lots of time to recover and tendirls you out with their 1 land in play.

[Roxas]

Just for reference, here are some commonly played cards that damage the controller:

fetchlands
Grim Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Force of Will
Night's Whisper
Dark Confidant
Deep Analysis
City of Brass
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault

In addition, it's not that uncommon for players to mana burn with excess unused mana from Mana Drain, Black Lotus, Tolarian Academy, and so forth.

I am amused that you complain about losing to combo too much, but won't play both of the angels with Haste, and instead play the ridiculously slow and bad Tidespout Tyrant.  Trust me, Oath decks don't need help being bad.

[chrissss]

ok I see the angel point.

another thing I forgot to mention, is that I now have a cunning wish in my deck instead of the third Tfk. This means that I can wish.

a tidespout tyrant with 2 moxen, a lotus or sol ring means infinite mana and/ or infinite spells.Wish for a brainfreeze or sog and you win.

the tyrant also protects himself and or akroma against Stps.

[Kelme]

a tidespout tyrant with 2 moxen, a lotus or sol ring means infinite mana and/ or infinite spells.Wish for a brainfreeze or sog and you win.

Yeah, this combo has been thought of and is rarely good. Its too dependent on other cards to be good. You can do cool things with tyrant, but Id rather just win with the angels.

[Zarathustra]

I will post the decklist of a friend of mine in a week, and then you will see what kind of deck it is. its a tendrils based deck, and also DC tinker in it. I lose to it all the time if a DC hits play. if they have it first, you have an angel, they attack ( you are at 9, they are at 14) you attack with both angels, and then they attack, and you die.

Well, if the deck is Tendrils-based, Oath pretty much loses to it already.  You can't stop that.

if your opponents is playing fetch lands, he will surely not let his life come to 18. everyone here assumes that your opponent is always at 18 life, which I do not get. either your opponents dont know how to play against oath, or their decks have too many fetch lands in them.

This statement makes no sense.  I can't think of any reason why someone wouldn't pop their fetchlands.

what can oath do against a dreadnought first turn? ( ritual, mask, noughts) each card is 4 times in the deck, so the chances arent that small seeing that card first/2nd turn.

Well, I can assure you, the chances of this happening are less than the chances that Oath will have a Force of Will and a blue card to stop it.  Masknought is not that common, so I don't see how this warrants the inclusion of Tyrant.

the tyrant also protects himself and or akroma against Stps.

I'd love for an Oath player to bounce his own Tyrant and Akroma!  They'll never see play again.  You want protection from STP?  Play SSS.

[chrissss]

brainstorm...

this card helps if creatures get bounced. End of turn brainstorm, Akroma on top, and back in play the blue haired baby goes.

but I see now why the 2 angels are prefered. Tinker and DC stay in my sideboard anyway, so I can always use that.

I didnt know Oath always loses to tendrils based decks. I read in a different oath thread that Grim long decks have little chance against Oath.

I just bought 2 Null rods, so I will add them to my deck also. Anyone have a suggestion what should go out?

[Kelme]

I think that the two null rods should definitely be maindecked instead of the two stifles.

My reasoning is that the stifles neither contributes to the game plan and that since you play chalice of the void against fish (or combo) you would like that play them for 1 since it stops swords to plowshares.

Tinker and DC stay in my sideboard anyway, so I can always use that.

By all means run them in the sb. Its a good sb plan.

I didnt know Oath always loses to tendrils based decks. I read in a different oath thread that Grim long decks have little chance against Oath.

If you run 3x duress +4x chalice +5 strips+2 null rods it does seem like a strong disruption package. However the window for breaking free is simply a rebuild. Grim long is very versatile.

[oneofchaos]

What type of metagame are you expecting?

[chrissss]

control, suicide black, some combo( not much) and a lot of random decks ( sligh, zoo, fish, aggro, the rock, goblins etc)

there are about 5-10 decent T1 players, and a lot of T2/extended players who just put in a sol ring, and a 5 proxis to make their deck T1.

Hope you know what I mean.

this is my deck as I now have it:


My oath with 5 proxies.

Mana 21

4 Forbidden orchard
4 polluted delta
2 underground sea
2 tropical island
1 strip mine
1 bayou (first turn duress and 2nd turn oath is difficult without a bayou in a most cases)
2 wastelands
1 mox emerald*
1 mox sapphire*
1 mox jet*
1 black lotus* (this might sound like crazy talk, but a lotus petal was equally good in 50 % of my plays, where a BL only gave me mana burn)


Combo 7

4 Oath of druids
1 Gaea’s blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Razia ( I gues the tyrant wasnt made to be ) 

Blue spells 20

2 mana drain
2 counterspell (I only have 2 drains)
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for knowledge
1 Time walk * ( tinight I might change this to a real one, and a third drain comes in)
1 Ancestral recall (my only P9….. for now)
1 misdirection
1 Research // development
1 Rushing river

Black spells 5

1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
3 Duress

rest 8

1 regrowth (not too sure yet, it can be great, but it can be a dead card)
1 crop rotation
4 chalice of the void
2 Null Rod

Sideboard

2 Triple S
1 Phantom Nishoba
2 stifle
1 tinker
1 DC


Cards I now removed :

mystical tutor: with 4 challices, its not so good anymore. Its card disadvantage, and doesnt find me oath.
sol ring ( first time ever I have a T1 deck without it, but I will see if it stays out.

[oneofchaos]

my favorite change I ever made in oath, was removing a duress for a darkblast.  You say you live in a fairly aggro meta, so I'd expect that change would benefit you even more than me.

[chrissss]

Darkblast seems like a good idea, especially with blessing.

I might take out regrowth, but I am not too sure.

PS: I now have a real time walk, so I can add another drain or mox.

Which do you recommend?

[oneofchaos]

Nice job obtaining the real timewalk.  I'd probably play another mox.

[rmn]

Actually, I found the Tyrant idea pretty creative, even though it's so wrong.

If you're really worried about Lightning Bolt, you can use Spirit of the Night.  It's just as fast and a lot cooler than Razia.

[oneofchaos]

Why worry about bolt?  Numero uno, razia can ping a token.  Numero two, where is lightning bolt played in a matchup oath can't win? 

[rmn]

Frankly, if my metagame doesn't punish me for it, I'll pick the uber-cool Spirit over the Boros angel every time.  Just don't forget that 'if'.

[chrissss]

now with 4 challice, I dont mind that much anymore.

without the challice the bolts were more annoying, and spirit tokens got cursed scrolled, and orchards wasted.


EDIT: those Null rods are awsome! I have tested the deck a lot now, and I have yet to lose.

[Tha Gunslinga]

ICBM Oath, v7.0


Maindeck:
        4 Forbidden Orchard
        1 Strip Mine
        2 Wasteland
        3 Underground Sea
        2 Tropical Island
        1 Island
        2 Polluted Delta
        2 Flooded Strand
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Crop Rotation
        1 Rushing River
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Emerald
        2 Null Rod
        3 Thirst for Knowledge
        4 Brainstorm
        4 Chalice of the Void
        4 Mana Drain
        4 Force of Will
        3 Duress
        1 Razia, Boros Archangel
        1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
        4 Oath of Druids
        1 Gaea's Blessing


Sideboard:
2 Oxidize
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Pyroclasm
2 Simic Sky Swallower
2 Pithing Needle
2 Energy Flux
1 Duress

Try this out; see how it works for ya.

[scutakicker]

There's no reason to play Spirit instead of Razia. Razia has vigilance and can ping opposing creatures. This can matter A LOT in some games. Occassionally you will get beat down with your own tokens and it will help against random aggro/fish/goblins/EBA decks.

[chrissss]

some updates after testing.

Sol ring will go out, it has no use. I will put a lotus petal instead.

the deck itself is amazing imo. I have tested this deck against a lot of different decks, and I havent lost a single time.
I played against : dimir cutpurse/ confidant, tendrils, 3 control decks, some land deck with strip/crucible/fastbond for infinite spells and mana, goblins and some other stupid decks.

25-0

woot woot.

anyway, I dont know how to play oath in sideboard, are there any specific things to look out for?

I also have platinum angel in the SB, which is great against combo.