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Author Topic: Second place finish at Eudamonia lotus tourn  (Read 1595 times)
Dnine
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« on: August 29, 2006, 01:06:35 am »

For those interested in the standings and general discussion of the tournament there is a thread already up posted by lotushead that has some nice picks and tournament info.  I felt that since the deck I played is fairly unique and posted good results in a +50 person tournament that I would start a new thread for a more focused discussion on the deck itself as well as my full tournament report. 

I've been playing Type one for about 4 years now mostly here in northern California with a few trips to the San Diego area and Las Vegas.  I have probably around 8 top eights and have finished second in now 4 power tournaments(always the "bridesmaid" I guess).  The biggest tournament I've played in was the worlds side event a few years ago in San Francisco were I finished 9th.  While I may not be one of the best players in the area I manage to hold my own and will someday find a way to actually win a finals match, but that will be a different report. 

This report, however, is about another second place finish, but at least it was with a deck that I feel is new and unique enough to call my own.  Now I know that it is basically a "fish" deck and I'm sure there will be some posts about how this is like X deck, and if that's the case I'd love to see a link to a thread so I can see for myself.  I'll try to do my best in the card choice section to point out what I think I did differently and the direction I was trying to go.  The biggest difference I feel between this and "fish" is the lack of mana denial present in most fish decks.  Instead of trying to attack the mana base I focused mainly on attacking there win conditions.  Before I get too much into card selection I think I'll go ahead and post my deck list for all that haven't seen it.  Then I'll point out some of the choices that aren't so standard.


4 dark confidant
4 meddling mage
4 juton grunt
2 ninja of the deep hour

4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 stifle
4 hide/seek
3 swords to plowshares
2 misdirection
1 timewalk
1 ancestral recall

4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
3 tundra
2 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 island
1 swamp
1 plans
1 mox jet
1 mox pearl
1 mox sapphire
1 mox ruby
1 lotus pedal
1 black lotus

sideboard
4 kataki   
3 true believer
2 sword of fire and ice
1 jitte
1 swords to plowshares
4 pithing needle
 

Besides one card this almost looks like a standard BUW fish deck, but that one card made me change the deck a fair amount.  The one card is Hide/seek.  By running this over say extract, I basically had to re-due the whole mana base and remove all non color producing mana sources.  With no strips or wastes, null rod becomes pretty useless and the whole mana denial scheme gets the axe.  Without the mana denial cards like daze won't be effective either so I'm sacrificing a lot for one card.  Was it worth it...you'll see. 

So with the mana denial cut, why the 4 stifle you ask?  Believe me I really thought about it and wanted to cut it, but there just wasn't a good replacement and I felt that it would at least be useful.  I was worried about protecting my own lands against strips effects and felt it could occasionally be great.  It proved it's worth throughout the day.   

2 misdirections were added to compinsate for the lack of daze and to help with turn one.  Most everything with this deck happens at 2 mana so I felt I needed something besides the 4 forces.  These seem like the next best thing.

Another card of question was the grunt, not if I should run it, but how many.  I choose 4 because I really wanted to see it consistently as I felt it was that important.  Looking back I would probably cut it down to 3 as the "graveyard hate" aspect of it really never played out.  I'd keep the 4th in the SB to bring in against certain matchups, but most of the time I was stuffing my own cards into my library so I could shuffle and draw them again.  The 4/4 body is really where this card shines and the upkeep is too steep to have 2 out. 

The only other real mistake I feel I made with the main deck was the ninjas.  They really don't belong in this deck and I kinda new that from the start.  I was looking at the interaction with the grunts and forgot the non interaction with all the other creatures in my deck.  This should really be cut and replaced with I believe S.D. top. or maybe nights whisper.  Some kind of card draw or selection to help in the games where bob doesn't come on line.

So with the card choices I have I'm basically 3 color except for I want the ability to cast the hide part of hide and seek.  I believe this is critical to the use of the card.  Without it losses a lot of it's appeal and becomes dead in several matchups.  So this means I need access to red and need to add a 4th color.  Originally I tried to add many red cards, but that just got really ugly so I settled on just the splash for the 1/2 of a card.  To do this I upped the fetch count to 8.  I was worried about the added pain of the fetches as well as from bob and forces, but I knew the seek half would help compinsate for this as well as the swords if needed.  What the 8 fetches also do besides help me have the right colors at the right time was help fill up my graveyard for grunts.  And they are also useful late game after putting business spells with grunt on the bottom of the library shuffling them back in.  The mana base worked our really well and it was pretty solid all day.  There was one time I got in trouble, but it was because of my own mistake and it cost me a game.  Had I played it correctly I believe I would have won.  I"ll point it out in the report. 

As for the sideboard I'll cover most of the cards in the report.  The only ones I didn't use were the kitaki's and obviously they are for workshop matchups which I never played against.

TOURNAMENT REPORT:

Round one: gifts

I had no idea what he was playing when I sat down and was a little nervous.  I didn't get nearly enough practice with this deck and didn't know really what to expect.  I win the roll and immediately go to 31 life.  I'm not sure if it was turn one or 2 but I quickly seek out his DSC and leave him with only a burning wish to win with.  He draws a bunch more cards then me and I start getting a little nervous.  He counters a second seek and I think he gets a little nervous.  He goes for the will win with me beating down for 2 a turn and him at 14, but winds up a few spells short and scoops.  Tendrils for 30 is a little harder to pull off.  Seek for the win!

Game 2 is about the same with me going to 30 turn 2 after a fetch and a seek.  I put pressure on him this time and again force him to go for the will win and again he falls a few spells short.  Seek for the win!

For the gifts match-up I bring in 3 pithing needles and remove a sword and 2 stifles I think.   

record 1-0

Round 2 oath

I lose the roll and see a first turn orchard so I know he's playing oath.  I believe I got an early mage in play naming oath then another naming chain.  My mistake as he's running rushing river, but I have force and manage to beat him down for game one.

Game too I expect SSS so I take out my swords and one grunt for the 4 needles  I manage to seek early and find no SSS!  Seems he couldn't get any in time and end up taking his akroma.  While seeking though I learn that he as a oath in hand and I quickly learn my hide/seeks are much better as disenchants then extracts in this match-up.  I try to force, but he has backup and proceeds to beat, timewalk and beat again.  I'm still at 16, but with a chalice at 1 and 2 I have no outs and quickly side back in my swords for game three.

Game 3 I have force for oath and a turn one bob.  my bob and one token proceed to chip away at his life while outdrawing him until I have game.  An important lesson was learned on when to hide and when to seek, but it wasn't costly as I'm on to round 3.
 2-0

Round 3 salvager's deck

I win the roll and get a turn one mox, mox land bob.  He attempted a turn one engineered explosives for 0 to clear my moxes.  I thought about letting it resolve as I had a bob out and would draw the land I needed, but decided to stifle the ability anyway as I had all 3 colors on the table and didn't want to risk getting color screwed.  I followed it up by a turn 2 seek.  I take his dimir guildmage as it looked like the win condition. After the match I discussed it and actually should have taken the lotus as he ran no LED and had other ways to win.  The bob card advantage was too much as I had answers to all his cards. 

Game 2 in comes the pithing needles and 2 believers and out go the 2 ninjas, 1 grunts, 2 misdirections and 1 stifle

I get a first turn bob again.  The guildmage makes an appearance and he starts stripping my hand.  A true believer makes an appearance so instead he starts drawing cards.  A swords puts and end to that quickly and the card advantage starts.  He plays a mage for what I assume will be EE, but I stifle the comes into play ability and go on to win.  The grunt is too big for any of his creatures and it manages to shuffle may ancestral back into my deck and allow me to draw it again.  Go double ancestral with no will!!!

record 3-0

Round 4 pitch long

Game one I lose the roll and am a bit worried.  He doesn't have the turn one kill.  I go land go holding a loaded hand with force, misdirection, ancestral, stifle, and brainstorm.  Turn 2 he trys to tinker and I think about forcing.  I know he's running forces so I bait with ancestral.  Sure enough out comes his force which I gladly misdirect to his tinker then draw 3 cards.  I follow it up with a turn 2 seek for his only tendrils.  I'll take it and start sideboarding for game 2:)

In come the true believers and out go the swords.  I keep a force/seek and and hope for a repeat.  He plays turn one LED land mox mox.  Taps out for grim tutor then sacs his LED ditching his hand and I smile.  I force and a few turns later seek him for the win.  A very quick round and a 4-0 record means I can draw into the top 8!!

record 4-0
record 4-0-2

top 8 RU gobins

I get paired against goblins and don't know what to expect.  He tries a first turn lackey that gets forced.  My life is going down by small amounts so I think I got a bob out.  I know a grunt shows up and holds down the fort.  I swing with the bob as I'm running out of cards to feed my grunt and couldn't just wait.  Hoping he will block he does and doubles up on my bob.  I swords one and kill the other.  His last creatures get sworded away and I'm finally able to swing in with the team and beat him down for the win.  This was a long and close game as was this whole match up. 

Sideboard saw the equipment come in as well as the final swords.  Out went the hide/seeks.


I end up making a costly mistake in this game.  He plays out a wastland and a stripmine and I'm sitting on a mox an island and a fetch  He taps his 2 strip lands to play a goblin so one my turn I brainstorm.  I was looking for a creature as I had a sword of fire and ice in hand but didn't see one.  I did have a stifle though and a timewalk.  So I break the fetch to cast timewalk.  Not having another island I had to get a dual land.  To top it off I had a fetch in hand, but I decided to shuffle it away in order to get the land to cast timewalk.  I then timewalked and drew nothing.  I still had the stifle though so I thought I was safe.  On his turn he cast goblin matron and I stifle the comes into play ability to prevent the free tutor.  He then strips my two lands and I don't see another for quite a while.  If I had sat on my fetches until I drew a creature then I would have been much better off.  The timewalk did nothing and shuffling away the third fetch was stupid.  Kicking myself I decide to bring in 2 needles for game 3 and take out the 2 ninjas.

I wish I could remember more of this game.  I know it was very close and went down to the wire. We are both mana light and I manage to stifle his fetch to keep him off blue as I have him holding daze.  Sure enough he counters my stifle so I pass the turn to prevent walking into it.  I play around it and wait to develop mana while he gets out 2 piledrivers.  I was holding them down again with a grunt and a dark confidant.  He cast a third and I decide to swords it.  At some point he decides to swing into my bob and grunt as the grunt will be around for awhile and I think he wanted to kill the bob.  I block each as I'm at 7 and don't don't mind losing my bob as I have another.  I cast the bob in hand and on my next turn or shortly after I flip a misdirection and take 5 to the dome and go down to 2.  at the end of his turn I cast brainstom to make sure I don't die and end up taking one from bob and go down to one. I cast a sword of fire and ice and have just enough mana to equip and swing fo r the win, but he as a daze.  I attempt to misdirect, but it meets an reb so I pay one and swing with the bob and take him down to 3.  I know my bob will most likely kill me on my turn if I don't do something, but I have stifle in hand and 3 swords so I feel somewhat safe.  On my upkeep I try to stifle my bob ability to avoid death but he has a hardcast force so I go to plan B and swords my own bob going to 3 and reveal a brainstorm for one damage.  I play a grunt which manages to get bounced the following turn but it eventually sticks and gets me the win.   

final 4

I get another match with the pitch long player and the games went about the same.  Game one saw me take 3 damage to a few fetches and a force only to go up to 21 from the winning seek.  I can't remember what I forced, but I'd been holding it since the start.  I believe it was a wheel. 

Game 2 took a little longer but I felt I had control most of the game.  I stifled his fetch land and it managed to cut him off from blue for quite a while. I get a first turn bob and again am sitting on a force.  I go for the seek and it resolves, but can't find the tendrils as he has it in hand.  I take will and proceed to start beating down with bob and drawing 2 cards a turn.  He finally gets a play and casts DT and gets lotus and tries to timetwister but it gets forced and that's game.     

For the finals there is a game commentary that will be up on the store website.  That tells the story.  Honestly I probably should have mul'd game one as my hand wasn't good for the match up.  I knew he was playing UW fish and forces are not that useful in the match up.  The hand had no gas and was heavy on mana.  I did draw into a grunt that kept me in it but he eventually ran out of graveyard and committed suicide.  I see no bobs and little business and soon get overrun. 

Sideboard here could use a little help.  I really only have the 3 equipment to come and the the 4th swords.  Out go the hide/seeks.  On the play my first hand looks like crap with 5 mana sources and no draw so I pitch it and draw 6.  I see a mox and a lotus with 2 forces a stifle and a brainstorm.  I keep when I probably should have pitched and went to 5.  It's a good 3 turns before I see a land and then It's all I can draw.  The game is over pretty quickly and I'm shaking the hand of the proud new owner of a nice black lotus. 

overall record 6-1-2

Summary

I really had a lot of fun with this deck.  As I mentioned there were only a few changes I wish I would have made.  I'd start with cutting the 2 ninjas and on grunt for some combination of tops and nights whispers.  The sideboard could also be tuned a little better.  4 needles seems too many as most times I was only bringing in 2-3.  Not that it isn't good, but just it's hard to remove 4 cards for them.  Other then that I'd definitely run this again and hope that other will as well.  I'd like to here other thoughts and feeback as I don't have good testing group to develop it much farther.  There's no type one scheduled up here anytime soon. 

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Xcisus
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2006, 03:11:20 pm »

Thanks for the report! It's always nice to see innovation with cards from the most recent sets.
After playing the same configuration of grunts and ninja's in UW Fish, I agree with your concern. The fourth grunt should often be sided out, and is only really important in the aggro/fish matchup, therefore relegating it to the board seems to be the right call. The ninjas are also very sub-par when you want to keep most of your creatures in play. The next-turn-dying-grunt/ninja synergy looks decent at first, but it rarely works out. The one caveat I see concerning their removal for tops would be that you would then be down to 18 blue cards including 6 pitch spells. The addition of tops would also suggest testing counterbalance, however UU seems difficult.
As for similar decks, the closest I have seen is a h/s control deck from NC called Cullen Duece. A list is here:http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29821.0. It uses more of a toolbox approach, and has done well at small tourney's in the south east.

Congrats on your finish, you'll get that win one of these days.

Edit: I just looked it up and you cannot stifle meddling mage's cip ability because of the wording "...as this comes into play..." rather than "...when this comes into play..." - something to remember.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 01:35:50 pm by Xcisus » Logged
kalithrian
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 03:59:17 pm »

I found that 4 grunts is usually a good thing. The clock attainable with grunts is too good not to have in this deck, and he does tend to force some spot removal if the opponent hasn't already stopped bob or a nicely-chosen meddling mage. This deck tends to roll over a Worse than GAT type of deck. I can't help but think Rootwater Thief might find a home in this deck.
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DoubleDrain
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 05:55:52 pm »

Why did you side in 3 needles against your round 1 gifts opponent?  What were you afraid of???
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The Colorado Crew

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Dnine
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 06:52:36 pm »

I believe he was running a full set of strip effects. My sideboarding was not optimal I will admit, but I felt that 3 stps and 4 stifles were too much for this matchup and wanted to remove some of them.  The needles seemed the most useful.  True believer also would have been a good choice, but I felt the only way I could lose was if he was able to mana screw me.
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