stifling a memory jar

[jazzykat]

I know that you can stifle cracking the memory jar, my question is if you can stifle the "At end of turn, each player discards his or her hand and returns to his or her hand each card he or she removed from the game this way."

So that you get to keep the hand off jar and not go back to the old one?

Since it says "At end of turn" (like an Astral Slide) I am guessing stifle will work, but the card isn't in play anymore so I am not sure.

[parallax]

Yes, you can Stifle the end-of-turn trigger to keep your Jar hand. The opponent keeps their Jar hand as well. The other cards are removed from the game permanently.

[Metman]

As a follow up question, what exactly happens with the original hand?  Does it stay face down, does it go to the RftG pile, can it be seen at anytime, is it accessable via Wish?

Thanks

[Apollyon]

It stays removed from the game face-down. Players can't look at face-down cards that are removed from the game. It's only accessible via Death Wish, and there, you get a random card from the hand.

[Scoops666]

Actually, if you cast Death Wish, you get to see the cards. Think of it like an addition to the sideboard.

[Gabethebabe]

Actually, if you cast Death Wish, you get to see the cards. Think of it like an addition to the sideboard.

To my knowledge you don´t get to see the cards and you choose a card at random. Can you back up your statement with an official ruling?

[Apollyon]

It's one of the rulings on Death Wish.

[parallax]

Death Wish does not allow you to look at cards that are removed from the game face down. Only your sideboard becomes visible when you cast a Wish. For all Wishes other than Death Wish, you may only get cards that are RFG face up or in your sideboard. You could also Research up to four random cards from your RFG hand. You don't get to see those cards, either.

[Scoops666]

Sorry, bad interpretation. Ignore me.

[Komatteru]

The ruling does say "random" card, but it doesn't say "at random."  "At random" would imply that you have to shuffle the cards or use a die or something to choose the card.  "Random" also means without aim or guidance (in this case, presupposing no knowledge of what you are getting).  I wonder if you set your hand aside in a certain way and remember it (i.e., set Tendrils on top of it), you can choose the card you get.  You would be choosing without looking at it, but you would know what you are getting.

The ruling isn't real clear, as it says

Does not allow you to look at face-down cards which are in the removed from game zone. You get to see the chosen card at the same time your opponent does, when you reveal it. You do get to tell each set of face down cards from other sets based on which effect removed the cards from the game. If you want to pick from a face down set, you take a random card from it.

The thing that is suspicious is that the card chosen with Death Wish is not revealed, but the ruling seems to imply that it is.  The way I read the last sentence is "If you want to pick from a face down set, you don't get to look at the cards, so you might not know what you are getting."

[parallax]

You take a random card from it.

This seems pretty clear to me. You must choose a random card. You cannot remember which card is on top of your face-down pile and choose that one. You must either shuffle the cards or preferably, use a die to determine which card you get. If you have cards removed from the game face down due to multiple effects, you can choose which pile to take the card from, but you must choose a random card from that pile.

[Komatteru]

Compare the 9th edition Wording of Hypnotic Specter:

Whenever Hypnotic Specter deals damage to an opponent, that player discards a card at random.

Every other discard spell is worded "at random" as well.  I think they would have said "at random" if they meant you have to shuffle it up and choose something completely random.

The precise problem is that RFG cards don't have order.  At least, the rules don't call for any, nor do they dictate how cards that have been RFGed must be placed.  The law is lacking in this manner...

[parallax]

Every other discard spell is worded "at random" as well.  I think they would have said "at random" if they meant you have to shuffle it up and choose something completely random.

That's because it wasn't written on a card. It was a ruling. They don't send rulings through templating. Rulings are written in plain English. Wtf don't you think random means random?

[Komatteru]

Le'sigh.  Apparently you've never heard of words having more than one meaning or connotation.

Consider the sentence: "There was a bunch of random people at the conference."  This does not mean that someone went out and selected a bunch of people who happened to be standing around and got them to come into the conference. Rather, it means that there were a lot of unexpected or mostly unknown people there.

It's not my fault that words have more than one meaning, and that "random" is usually used in its idiomatic form "at random" when the intention is that the outcome should come from no discernable prehand knowledge (like a die).

[parallax]

Random always means that the outcome should come from no discernable prehand knowledge.

ran‧dom  /ˈrændəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ran-duhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers. 
2. Statistics. of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen. 
3. Building Trades. a. (of building materials) lacking uniformity of dimensions: random shingles. 
b. (of ashlar) laid without continuous courses. 
c. constructed or applied without regularity: random bond. 
 
–noun 4. Chiefly British. bank3 (def. 7b). 
–adverb 5. Building Trades. without uniformity: random-sized slates. 
—Idiom6. at random, without definite aim, purpose, method, or adherence to a prior arrangement; in a haphazard way: Contestants were chosen at random from the studio audience. 

I wonder if you set your hand aside in a certain way and remember it (i.e., set Tendrils on top of it), you can choose the card you get.

That would have a definite aim and reason.

I know words can have more than one meaning, but all the meanings of random imply that you don't know what card you're getting. If you remember where a card is, and choose it specifically, that doesn't fit any of the definitions or connotations of random. That's actually the opposite of random.

[freakish777]

I assume this also applies for RFGing say 18 cards with Necro and then trying to Death Wish/Burning Wish for Will (because you need to go off that turn)?

[EnialisLiadon]

No, those aren't RFG'd face down like jar.  You should be able to wish for whatever you RFG from necro, pitch spells, etc.

[Godder]

Cards "drawn" with Necropotence are removed from the game face down, so it would be a random card chosen with Death Wish.

[Apollyon]

If they are removed from the game face-up, you can choose a card.

If they are removed from the game face-down, it's a random card.

[parallax]

Skip your draw step.
If you would discard a card, remove that card from the game instead.
Pay 1 life: Remove the top card of your library from the game face down. At the end of your turn, put that card into your hand.

Seriously, people. Looking cards up in Gatherer is not that hard. There's no reason to have three posts speculating on the wording of a card.

All the cards you paid life for are removed from the game face down. You can only get them with Death Wish and you must select a card from them at random. Any cards you discard while Necropotence is in play are removed face up. You can get any card you like with either of the appropriate Wishes for that card.