gifts package for mean deck gifts?

[memnarch]

so here is the world champ deck of mean deck gift:

1  Tolarian Academy
2  Volcanic Island
2  Underground Sea
2  Flooded Strand
3  Polluted Delta
5  Island

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15 land

1  Darksteel Colossus

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1 creature

1  Black Lotus
1  Lotus Petal
1  Sol Ring
1  Mana Crypt
1  Mana Vault
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
4  Mana Drain
4  Force of Will
4  Brainstorm
4  Merchant Scroll
4  Gifts Ungiven
2  Misdirection
1  Demonic Tutor
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Mystical Tutor
1  Yawgmoth's Will
1  Ancestral Recall
1  Time Walk
1  Tinker
1  Fact or Fiction
1  Recoup
1  Rebuild
1  Chain of Vapor
1  Burning Wish

sideboard

3  Pithing Needle
2  Red Elemental Blast
2  Pyroblast
2  Fire // Ice
2  Tormod's Crypt
1  Chain of Vapor
1  Hurkyl's Recall
1  Pyroclasm
1  Tendrils of Agony



so i was wondering how to play this deck what is the gifts package you would normaly use to go off on the combo with tendrils. also why is tendrils in the sideboard? and what is the "mean" in the mean deck? i also dont get the Merchant Scroll why is that so good?

[Liek]

I'm pretty sure it's:

Recoup
Time Walk
Yawgmoth's Will
Black Lotus

My opponents always Gifts for Tinker, though. It turns out most control players are really only good at casting Tinker.

Merchant Scroll is insane, it searches for anything you could ever want except for mana...

[memnarch]

yes flashback has great synergy with gifts. what about Deep Analysis? that might be good.

[Hi-Val]

Team Meandeck is the team that designed the deck, hence the name. I GOT ME A MEAAAAAN DECK!

Stephen Menendian has written a fantastic series of articles on the deck on Starcitygames.com and I suggest them to you. The problem with answering your question is that there's really no one Gifts pile. You don't Gifts up the combo set (as Liek shows, but with Tinker over Walk often) because then you try to put a roof on a house with no foundation. Gifts piles generally fall into categories:

-The Draw pile: merchant Scroll, Gifts, Brainstorm, Fact or Fiction, Ancestral Recall, Demonic Tutor, etc

-The control pile: Mana Drain, Misdirection, Force of Will, Brainstorm, Merchant Scroll

-The combo pile: Recoup, Tinker, Time Walk, Burning Wish (the Tendrils is on the board because you can Wish for it, saving maindeck space) Yawgmoth's Will, Black Lotus, Mana Crypt

-The "I'm holding Will and I need acceleration" pile: Tolarian Academy, Black Lotus, Lotus Petal, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, etc

Burning Wish lets you Time Walk, Recoup Time Walk, Burning Wish for Time Walk and then Recoup it again. Usually this happens with Darksteel Colossus in play and usually your opponent ends up in negative life totals before they get their next turn. Wish also lets you grab Tendrils after you've Willed and maybe used Chain of Vapor on your moxes to up storm count to lethal.


Merchant Scroll can be played off Island, Mox. It gets practically all the business in the deck. As Stephen says, MDG wins by getting critical mass-- you can stop some of their spells but they eventually avalanche you. Merch lets you get Ancestral Recall, which gets a lot of that mass going. It's often the target of Merch; however, Merch just as easily gets Mana Drain, Force of Will, FOF, etc. Understanding the role of Merchant Scroll and Gifts Ungiven and the roles that they play in the deck are crucial to mastering the list. For example, if you Gifts for anything and include Tinker and Yawgmoth's Will in the pile, you can be pretty sure your opponent will give you the other two cards, even if they are Ancestral Recall and Time Walk.

Definitely check out what Stephen has written about the deck though-- it'll explain a heck of a lot.

Deep Analysis is just too slow for what the deck wants to do. For 4 mana, it can't match what Gifts does, and you can't Merch for it. There's also no way to discard it realistically other than with Gifts.

[memnarch]

wow that cleared up alot of the cunfusion i had about this deck thanks. i hadnt thuoght about the burning wish flashback combo. i will look at that article too. thanks again.

[LotusHead]

I finally threw that list together and keep it around to test against various decks.

My Background, I play Salvagers and Shops. (No, not in same deck).

As near as I can tell, you just keep Casting stuff until something happens.

You obviously want to resolve a Yawgmoth's Will, but first you want an Ancestral Resolved (and waiting in the yard), a Time Walk preferably resolved (and waiting in the yard) and hopefully you have seen Black Lotus/Tolarian Academy.

Any hate that hits the board can wait, unless it's a clock as your 1 Chain and 1 Rebuild (or Burning Wish for an answer) is usually strong enough to get your game on.

The whole Merchant Scroll for Force/Drain/MisD is no joke if you think your opponent is gonna combo off on you.  Otherwise, just keep casting stuff.

Gifts packages for Force/Tutor/Tutor/Tutor are strong (The Get Me Will/Tinker package), as is just about anything.  You just need to play it against competent decks/players.  GoldFishing does no good.

[Hi-Val]

After awhile, you will develop a preferred method of killing. Steve tells me that maybe 70% of the time, he just kills with Colossus and Time Walk recursion (or at least that's what the figure used to be). I prefer greatly to just kill with Tendrils, on the order of maybe 80% of the time. When you find which one you prefer, you'll see your playstyle shift to it. For example, Steve does a lot of Gifting for Tinker, where I do a lot of Gifting for Black Lotus or Burning Wish. Both of us plan to resolve a ridiculous Will, but our process of killing is set up differently.

One of the absolute strongest plays that Gifts can do on the first turn is Scroll for Mana Drain. MDG is such a mana whore that being able to drain something juicy into Gifts is clutch. Also, getting a Drain is a really nice psychological play.

[yangtze34]

Yeah, merchant scrolling for drain is great in gifts, FoW isn't bad either.  Merchant scroll is the ultimate make-your-opponent-sweat-like-a-pig card.  After scroll resolves and you get your counter, the game becomes more than just who has more playskill.  It enters the realm of interpersonal magic and you have the advantage.  There have been numerous times I have played against gifts and the above scenario happened and I have just said to myself, "oh shit."  knowing they probably have the winning cards in their hand and are holding another counter in addition to the one they have.  Even if scroll does not resolve, you still have to waste a counter on it.

[zeus-online]

Haven't read it all, from my testing what you gift for vary so much that its hard to just throw examples around...

Also, about the kill, i generally lean towards Tinker/Time walk with the MDG deck, while tendrils is my preferred kill in most other gift decks.

Don't get to aggresive with the merchant scrolls, as the others have said: Get a counter.

Only thing i don't like about MDG is the use of misdirections, i really don't like that card

/Zeus

[Hi-Val]

Misdirection is nuts in the deck. It lets you trump other control decks when you go for Ancestral to win.

I think you need to clarify on your thing about Merch-- you want to be REALLY aggressive with casting Merch, because it's your engine. You don't want to be foolish and go for the pretty AR when you really need Mana Drain to start powering the Gifts in your hand and act as a buffer card. I Merch for Brainstorm all the time too. It's such a versatile tutor.

[zeus-online]

Hmmm i think we need some definitions...i consider going merchant scroll -> Ancestral (or mystical to get tinker) to be aggresive, while getting a counter to be defensive. So i think we're actually agreeing!

I just don't like the card misD. It wasn't "bad" when i tested the deck, i just really don't like it. It sucks when your opponent is casting a threat, unless its ancestral recall. I guess i'm just a defensive player at heart.

/Zeus

[Arctanis]

I think it's important to keep in mind that you don't have to play this version of gifts if it doesn't suit your style.  There are many versions of gifts decks, and this is just one.  As long as you don't remove the core of the deck, you should do just fine.  For example, you could use duress over misdirection if you wish, or use a combination of merchant scrolls with TFK or skeletal scrying.  It just depends on what you prefer.  I do think you should check out the gifts primer just to get an idea of how the deck functions.

[Hi-Val]

You might also mosey over to the Open forum and give the thread going on right now about FOF piles a look-over. It'll get you into the mindset of what Gifts is trying to do and analyzing its plays.

I agree with Arctanis that you should play what fits your style best. I think MDG is absolutely the most powerful version of Gifts, but that's of course open to debate. And let me remind everyone while wearing my Moderator Hat that such debate should be taken to another thread.

[sundering jerk]

I'm hoping some one will explain to me how this deck handles stax. It seems like 4 welders, balance, and swords would kick thick the tinker idea goodbye, while  four sphere , a trinny, and chalice/rod would stop the combo?
Do you gifts for Island, snow-coverd island, fetch, fetch? Or do you search for bounce or a drain?  Basically what I wanna know is how has that testing gone? and what is the strategy?

[Hi-Val]

The way to handle Stax is just to fetch out Islands. Gifts is basically a mono-blue deck. Merchant Scroll gives you a lot of flexibility and lets you choose when you want to go off because you can go get Hurk's/Rebuild when you need it. You basically just have to hit critical mass. You eventually take a Time Walk turn or two off a Will. Welders aren't a problem because you play all your artifacts out of the yard, and when you Tinker during a Will, the artifact is RFG'd. If the opponent has something like Shaman/Welder, that can be solved by Wishing for Pyroclasm or using Chain of Vapor.

The key to fighting Stax is knowing what threats are actually threats and dealing with them as they come. Since you have a rock-solid manabase, SOR and Trinisphere aren't a huge problem-- you just bounce them EOT before you go off. Smokestack and Chalice 0 are the biggest offenders. Your Gifts will usually be for combo stuff. Against Stax, I utilize the "go get Tinker and Will and guarantee I get the other two cards" plan a lot. There's less of a need to Gifts for draw. Gifting for artifact mana is incredibly strong too. Most of my Stax games end by Rebuilding everything EOT and then using the moxes that I bounced to Tendrils out the opponent. Gifts has a pretty good match v. Stax, actually.

[Disburden]

I'm hoping some one will explain to me how this deck handles stax. It seems like 4 welders, balance, and swords would kick thick the tinker idea goodbye, while  four sphere , a trinny, and chalice/rod would stop the combo?
Do you gifts for Island, snow-coverd island, fetch, fetch? Or do you search for bounce or a drain?  Basically what I wanna know is how has that testing gone? and what is the strategy?

I actually started instensive testing verus Uba Stax this week, I'll try to explain here. You run four merchant Scrolls in the deck. Imo and in my style, I should always be looking for countermagic in this match. Mana Drain is an absolute bomb against Workshop. Draining into a smokie or Uba Mask is just huge in the early game. If you're the type of player that relies on Tinker-->DSC over Tendrils then you need to get rid of their welder. I actually just choose to drain all their artifacts, Then cast a huge (FREE) Gifts for Rebuild and other combo pieces that let me when with a huge will and Tendrils. Some games, especially on the play, you can just go nuts before they get any lock pieces in play. I have seen about 4 games so far where I could tinker into Colossus, with huge counter wall back up, within the first three turns. The matchup is harder games 2-3 when they side in four Jester's Caps. On the other hand you get pryoclasm for their Welders after the board (also is a Burning Wish target).The worst thing about Stax, again imo, is Null Rod. Everytime I lost in testing Vs Uba Stax was because they baited a Force of Will or Mana Drain and then laid down a Null Rod shutting off all my artifact mana. This deck is the most mana hungry of all the Drain decks, which may look untrue, but it really suffers under Null Rod.

This deck runs an almost infinite amount of tutors ,which in turn, morph into counter magic. If you play this deck that way then you should be countering stax pieces and welders all over the place. When you see the time is right, you Drain Smokestack and "BAM" you get a huge gifts next turn for one blue mana.

[sundering jerk]

It's all becoming clearer.

[zeus-online]

I think MDG is absolutely the most powerful version of Gifts, but that's of course open to debate.

I agree its alot better then other lists i've seen and played.

I think it's important to keep in mind that you don't have to play this version of gifts if it doesn't suit your style. 

I agree with that aswell, as i said i don't like misD's, so i removed them when i made my own version.

/Zeus

[memnarch]

wow this deck is really solid i like playing it. ive been kicking butt with it. definatly recoup, time walk, tinker, and yawgmoths will is a great package. mabie im not experianced enough for the tendrils combo yet i had better luck with that with pitch long alothough i like this deck alot better because its more stable and consitant. thats whats great about gifts basicly theres 8 copies of it with merchant scroll and once you resolve gifts your on your way to winning. for some reson people keep giving me tinker i dont know what there thinking lol.

@zeus : i dont like misdirection that much either becuase often i find it a dead card. what do you use instead? i was thinking about daze mabie? or counterspell?

[Hi-Val]

If you're going to cut MisD, you should replace it with a 3rd bounce spell like Hurk's or Tendrils maindeck or Duress or even Imp Seal. Daze is HORRIBLE outside of Fish-style decks and especially in MDG because you absolutely want every mana you can get. Counterspell only 1-for-1s something so it's not really worth it.

I can't believe you guys aren't liking MisD in the deck-- FOW is at an all-time high in the metagame, even combo plays it. Having the counter for their counter is absolutely crucial and the MisDs and Scrolls are why MDG has such a great combo matchup.

[zeus-online]

I'm currently playing with duress, its pretty good against anything without shops. (Its decent vs. fish, but not exactly game-breaking, i usually board it out against anything w/wastelands)

/Zeus

[memnarch]

it just pisses me off when my openent plays a creature and all i have is misdirection. mabie i will play more bounce spells or discard altough i cant see why couterspell is bad. i dont know though having just one or two daze can really through an oppenent offguard they probably wont see it coming.

[zeus-online]

Only creatures that really worry me are meddling mage and true believer...

You should be able to just blitz past goblins and that kinda stuff anyways.

/Zeus

[memnarch]

i played the fish match with nullrods and stormscape aprentice that guy sucks against the big man. im putting pyroclasm in there maindeck just becuase of that match.

[zeus-online]

Just tutor up a rebuild, EOT you bounce their rods, chalice's and whatever else they've got, then you Will them out with a burning wish -> Tendrils (or just tendrils if you play with one in the main)

Just please, please, don't play with MD pyroclasm, if anything splash for balance. (1 tundra, 1 balance).

/Zeus

[memnarch]

wow balance is a great idea thanks for the tip that would probably work great in this deck

[Hi-Val]

it just pisses me off when my openent plays a creature and all i have is misdirection. mabie i will play more bounce spells or discard altough i cant see why couterspell is bad. i dont know though having just one or two daze can really through an oppenent offguard they probably wont see it coming.

I don't want to sound like a jerk but have you read Daze? "Return an Island to your hand" = your opponent gets another turn to live before you can kill them. Gifts is absolutely the greediest deck out there for mana. You absolutely don't want to be bouncing lands. There is no threat in Vintage worth bouncing an Island back in Gifts.

You've got to realize that a great deal of what your opponent does just doesn't matter to your plan. Save counters for stuff that does. Counterspell is bad because it makes you hold open mana without any real reward. Drain lets you win the turn after you cast it. Counterspell lets you maybe stop a threat. Holding up mana for Drain with Merch in hand is fine, but holding up Counterspell with Merch is silly. Mise well just Merch up a FOW and pitch Counterspell to it instead.