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Author Topic: what's the right play?  (Read 990 times)
GamerSmurf
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« on: September 20, 2006, 01:51:49 am »

After having played on MWS, I learned I still need to go leaps and bounds to improve my game  Razz However, the main topic is that I came up with a question based on one of the primer articles. I did read through them but didnt see an answer to this. Although the deck I was playing was in the Legacy format, the cards/ play in reference are in this format also, thus, I think it would still apply. (Not to mention, for some reason, I dont see the "new topic" option in the developmental forum...but I digress.) The question on the correct play:

Opponent has blue control deck with FOW. First turn, I duress. Would it be the correct play to let the duress go through and let your opponent rip the fow out of your hand AND see your hand (thus your potential weakness), or use the FoW and lose another card but still retain some measure of anonimity/ surprise against your opponent?

Incidently, this was the case when I played against Bardo from this board. Nice game Bardo, was also nice meeting you. Oh, and I dread those efreets now !  Razz (yes, I blocked his creatures with my face....and lost.)
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brianpk80
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 04:22:21 am »

Opponent has blue control deck with FOW. First turn, I duress. Would it be the correct play to let the duress go through and let your opponent rip the fow out of your hand AND see your hand (thus your potential weakness), or use the FoW and lose another card but still retain some measure of anonimity/ surprise against your opponent?

Usually, I would only FoW a Duress if I had only artifact mana (and would be mana screwed otherwise) or if I had Oath of Druids or possibly Tinker and Ancestral in hand.  Otherwise, it's usually better to just bite it. Otherwise, you'd be trading a blue card for merely a little privacy as well as giving your opponent a red flag that there's something sinister waiting in your hand. 

-BPK
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"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards.  And then the clouds divide...  something is revealed in the skies."
GamerSmurf
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 10:09:39 am »

Wouldnt the red flag you mentioned allow you some advantage, even if its a bluff? The opponent might wonder what infact do you have in your hand that merits losing 2 cards rather than just 1, thus potentially causing them to slip up? Is this out of context when it comes to vintage? only reason I ask is because;
a) I dont play vintage competitively b) it would almost seem like in whatever given deck, the experienced player would just go as intended for their deck without so much as a passing thought? and c) would the potential slip up be probable and if so, is it something that could cause a win in this environment?
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parallax
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 03:07:48 pm »

I would usually only Force if I'm protecting something. If I feel my opponent's best play is to take the Force, I'll usually let them have it.

However, a large number of other factors come into play. What decks are both players playing? If your opponent is playing fast combo, it might be worth Forcing so your opponent doesn't know whether you're vulnerable or not. Also, if your opponent is playing with Cabal Therapy, guarding the contents of your hand is more important. If your opponent is playing something slower, like Deadguy Ale, then you probably don't want to Force. In this case, quantity of cards in hand is more important than information with the threat of Hymn to Tourach.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
brianpk80
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 03:59:54 pm »

Wouldnt the red flag you mentioned allow you some advantage, even if its a bluff? The opponent might wonder what infact do you have in your hand that merits losing 2 cards rather than just 1, thus potentially causing them to slip up? Is this out of context when it comes to vintage?

It depends.  Yes, in Type 1, just as in any card game, bluffing and psyching out an opponent have their place.  However, if you really have nothing in hand, you are probably not going to want to pitch a blue card first turn if you have no genuine reason to do so.  I can think of several reasons why you wouldn't do this.  First, duping your opponent into thinking your protecting something isn't going to have much effect on the first turn when after Duressing you, he is most likely to either pass the turn or kill you on the spot.  Secondly, if you FoW a Duress, he might be tempted to FoW or Misdirect your FoW and then you're starting the game with 5 cards in hand (after your draw) and nothing on the table.  Let's assume you're playing Meandeck Gifts (a very popular T1 deck) and you Force a Duress and he Forces it back at you.  Your starting hand will have gone from: Force of Will, Polluted Delta, Mana Vault, Brainstorm, Gifts Ungiven, Mox Jet, and Island to:

Polluted Delta, Mana Vault, Mox Jet, Island. 

Whatever psychological advantage you may have attempted to acquire simply wasn't worth the price paid. 
You have a slim chance of topdecking something amazing, but otherwise you're probably going to lose. 
That said, bluffing in T1 usually involves representing a counterspell that you don't have, not a killer spell.  If I had a bomb in hand, I usually would want my opponent unprepared for it.  Hey, Goblin Welder... meet Oath of Druids.  Smile

-BPK
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"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards.  And then the clouds divide...  something is revealed in the skies."
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