[Single Card Discussion] Locket of Yesterdays from Time Spiral

[freakish777]

For Reference:

Locket of Yesterdays
1
Artifact 
Uncommon
Spells you play cost 1 less to play for each card that has the same name as that spell in your graveyard.




Although I've been hesistant lately to believe things on MTGSalvation, the leaked card Locket of Yesterdays is an extremely intriguing replacement for Helm of Awakening in Sensei Sensei.

Obviously your route to victory would change somewhat as you would want to Thirst pitching a Top first, but I think the benefit of this card (1 less mana, not giving your opponent their spells at discount) outweighs the drawback (more set up involved and needing the card in your bin in order to get the discount).

Obviously Thirst for Knowledge would work great here as you can pitch Top/Locket/off color mox/extra Future Sight.  My only concern is that you wouldn't get the benefit for your draw spells until after you've played/pitched the first, Intuition for AKs still looks good here even if your Intuition will be 3 mana.  Another concern is that you won't ever get Cunning Wish at 1U or U because it never goes to the graveyard unless you discard it.

Does anyone else think this card has potential either in re-vitalizing Sensei or in a different deck?

[PipOC]

It looks like it could enable Mono U combo.  This allows the deck to quickly ramp to critical mass with gifts, and possibly intuition.

[policehq]

Erm, Artificer´s Intuition? Discard a Senseis Top to tutor for this, ditch any other artifact for another Top, Brain Freeze in hand, gg.

EDIT- You would need 3 Tops altogether. The first one can be found with Artificer´s Intuition, pitching any artifact.

There are more applications, with Skullclamp and Myr Servitor, and obviously Easter Tendrils.

hq

[verduran]

How is this much better than sapphire medailion?

[xycsoscyx]

It costs one less and works for all spells, not just Blue ones (including artifacts and such).

[policehq]

EDIT: Don't want to post the deck yet.

-hq

[Harlequin]

Thruming stone is probably better than Future Sight.  It pitches to Artificers intution. It costs if you have locket out and intuition for it. and you can Tinker for it. It also combos in basically the same way (but you would want 4 tops in the deck).  Not to mention it can be amazing even without top because you can randomly double up on stuff.

[SiegeX]

Hmm, if im right, Thrumming Stone is an excelent idea because it wouldn't even require helm or Locket at all.  All you would need are two tops and the thrumming stone and 1 mana to get the combo going.  I think it would go like this assuming Top-A in hand, Top-B in play and Thrumming Stone in play:

• Play Top-A in hand for 1
• Ripple Triggers
• Use Top-B already in play in response to put back on top of library
• Ripple resolves, Top-B gets revealed, play for free
• Ripple Triggers
• Use Top-A already in play in response to put back on top of library
• Ripple resolves, Top-A gets revealed, play for free
• Rinse, Repeat

EDIT
Actually thinking more about it, this doesn't work.  This combo would end at step 6 (Use Top-A already in play in response to put back on top of library) reason being Top-A is still on the stack since thats where ripple triggers.  So unless im missing something else, how do you propose Trumming Stone to combo?

[zeus-online]

You guys also seems to forget that future sight is one hell of a bomb...often it will just win the game if resolved....that other artifact will just suck, regardless if it resolved or not.

/Zeus

[nataz]

oh snap, another combo for A.I.

[policehq]

Merchant Scroll, Intuition, and Accumulated Knowledge are absolutely sick with this card. The first Accumulated Knowledge becomes an Ancestral Recall, and for one U, you can fetch another to draw 4 cards.

Further Intuitions can be cast to fetch a combo piece that costs 2colorless less or to help play out your hand by reducing the casting cost of the cards therein. Or Deep Analysis, I believe, can be played for U and 3 life from the graveyard.

-hq

[Harlequin]

Actually thinking more about it, this doesn't work.  This combo would end at step 6 (Use Top-A already in play in response to put back on top of library) reason being Top-A is still on the stack since thats where ripple triggers.  So unless im missing something else, how do you propose Trumming Stone to combo?

You need 2 tops and 1 thrumming stone and a way to make top be zero mana.  namely locket.

Start with both tops in play.
- Tap to draw a new card
- Tap top 2, to draw top 1.
- Play top 1, and ripple top 2 into play.
End with both tops in play, zero mana spent, fresh cards on top of your library, +1 cards.

I think its a bit faster than future sight.  While Fututure sight has its merrit, the triple Blue requirement means you can only spend in drain mana.  With the thrumbing stone its all colorless. 

I actually go into it a bit deeper on the Legacy forums:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29882.0

its about the 4th post down.

[LotusHead]

For Reference:

Locket of Yesterdays
1
Artifact 
Uncommon
Spells you play cost 1 less to play for each card that has the same name as that spell in your graveyard.


Does anyone else think this card has potential either in re-vitalizing Sensei or in a different deck?

I have had a dumb "Mono-White Mesmeric Orbs" deck with Vigilant Creatures (was type 2 fun untill Mirroden rotated out, now its my dumb Extended deck)

with Coldsnap came Jotun Grunt BEATS!!!

Now, Locket of Yesterdays will make all my other spells free (there are many 4 ofs in the deck).

Given this new edge, I might spruce up the deck (read, make it T1) with Leyline of the Void and Tutors/Duress, etc.

[policehq]

You need 2 tops and 1 thrumming stone and a way to make top be zero mana.  namely locket.

Start with both tops in play.
- Tap to draw a new card
- Tap top 2, to draw top 1.
- Play top 1, and ripple top 2 into play.
End with both tops in play, zero mana spent, fresh cards on top of your library, +1 cards.

I think its a bit faster than future sight.  While Fututure sight has its merrit, the triple Blue requirement means you can only spend in drain mana.  With the thrumbing stone its all colorless. 

I actually go into it a bit deeper on the Legacy forums:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29882.0

its about the 4th post down.

If you have two Sensei's Divining Tops in play and a way to cast them for free, you could just use a Brain Freeze/Cunning Wish in-hand.

-hq

[freakish777]

Thrumming Stone is still a piece of crap, and is less likely (I'm pretty sure the words "by far" are applicable here in terms of percentages) to gain card advantage than Future Sight.


Also, if I'm not mistaken, you're turning a 3 card combo (Top, Helm/Locket, Sight) into a 4 card combo (2 Top, Helm/Locket, Stone), I fail to see how the 3rd blue is harder to come by than the 4th card.


Oh, and for those of you that like formats other than Vintage and want to go broken, both versions (Sight or Stone) will be Extended legal... just thought you should all know that...

[jaeppel]

i just thought i would mention that this also reduces the cc of everything on a yawgwill turn, or for that matter of any spell played from the graveyard.  this effect multiplies nicely for example cast win, 2 gifts in the yard, locket in play, locket in the yard.... i think we see where this is going.  i think this guy will find a home in many storm decks.  it wouldnt surprise me at all to find it busted as hell.

[Nefarias]

A lot of the redundant cards in Storm decks (Dark Ritual, Duress, Brainstorm, Pitch Counters) don't benefit at all off this. That's not to say a Storm deck couldn't be built differently to be able to use it, but it can't simply just be thrown into a current deck. Also, any deck it would be good in would probably be bad if you don't draw it.

As far a Sensei, I really don't think that Helm's inefficiency is what's holding the deck back, and the set-up Locket takes may in fact be a bigger drawback. As far a speed concerns, keep in mind it is a control deck.

[policehq]

As far a Sensei, I really don't think that Helm's inefficiency is what's holding the deck back, and the set-up Locket takes may in fact be a bigger drawback. As far a speed concerns, keep in mind it is a control deck.

Er, when asked why the 4th Mana Drain wasn't included, Steve Houdlette said something to the effect of "I don't want the deck to be even more reactive."

RE: Helm's inefficiency
Whether or not this belongs in Sensei, Sensei, I'm not sure yet, but Intuition and Thirst for Knowledge are insane with this card. The setup to put in the graveyard is easy, and Artificer's Intuition can get all of the combo pieces necessary except Brain Freeze, and put them in their rightful location.

Even Quiet Speculation would allow you to play a 6/6 wurm token (Roar of the Wurm) for G. The second would be G1, then G2. Not bad, just be careful of Mana Drain.

There is definitely a ton of potential for this card.

-hq

[Purple Hat]

Unless I'm missing something comboing out with this thing, sensei's top, and ripple actually requres 3 tops.  if you can get 3 of a specific card early enough to matter in the combo sense I feel like there virtually HAVE to be better things to get.  even with Futuresight you now require 2 tops.  not to mention that you need a way to get one of said tops into your graveyard for the cost reduction.   you can't intution for tops in a non future sight version because then you need to see all 4 tops to win.  overall I've gotta say that comboing with this thing and sensei's top seems really bad.

[jaeppel]

A lot of the redundant cards in Storm decks (Dark Ritual, Duress, Brainstorm, Pitch Counters) don't benefit at all off this. That's not to say a Storm deck couldn't be built differently to be able to use it, but it can't simply just be thrown into a current deck.

actually, there are several cards in storm decks that could benefit from this effect.  the first being pitch counters.  on locket makes your fourth force a counterspell, not to mention gifts for U.  The defacto recoup/win combo costs RB3, or with 2 lockets RB1!!!!

dont forget this essentially also says "reduce flashback costs by one"  its just that it does a whole lot more.

[policehq]

Unless I'm missing something comboing out with this thing, sensei's top, and ripple actually requres 3 tops.  if you can get 3 of a specific card early enough to matter in the combo sense I feel like there virtually HAVE to be better things to get.  even with Futuresight you now require 2 tops.  not to mention that you need a way to get one of said tops into your graveyard for the cost reduction.   you can't intution for tops in a non future sight version because then you need to see all 4 tops to win.  overall I've gotta say that comboing with this thing and sensei's top seems really bad.

[EDIT: Didn't read "non future sight version."]
Intuition for 3 Tops, Future Sight, Locket of Yesterdays in play.
2 Tops go to graveyard, 1 Top goes to hand.
Play Top for free.
Tap it to draw a card, it goes on top of library.
Future Sight lets you play it from top of library for free, thanks to Locket.

The only way you'd need to see all 4 Tops is if you cast Intuition and plan on comboing out without Future Sight (recurring 2 Tops).

With Intution, you technically don't need to see any, just an Intuition (Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, or any tutor...).

When people were going ape nuts over Long/Smennen's affinity, the commonly-hyped play was Artificer's Intuition for Black Lotus, sac it for UUU, Artificer's Intutition for 3 Myr Servitors, which would require UU and two artifacts in hand, along with Artificer's Intuition in play.

It's really not a hard play.

Getting Sensei's Top into the graveyard is easy: Thirst for Knowledge, Intuition, Artificer's Intuition, Frantic Search would all be easy plays that fit into the deck's theme any way.

-hq

[Tobi]

Do Flashback spells count as being in the graveyard as being cast? Are they still in the gy by the time the casting cost is reduced by locket?

Just wondering...

[SiegeX]

Sorry guys,  Locket of Yesterday does NOT work with either Yawgmoth's Will or Flashback.  Here's why:

409.1a. The player announces that he or she is playing the spell or activated ability. It moves from the zone it's in to the stack and remains there until it's countered or resolves. In the case of spells, the physical card goes onto the stack. In the case of activated abilities, the ability goes onto the stack without any card associated with it...

Locket of Yesterday doesn't reduce the cost of the card until way after in:

409.1f. The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text, and some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all cost increases and minus all cost reductions...

So long story short, by the time the Locket sees the card played off Yawg Will or via flashback, it's already on the stack and thus does NOT reduce its cost unless there is another copy of the card in the yard.

[Purple Hat]

When people were going ape nuts over Long/Smennen's affinity, the commonly-hyped play was Artificer's Intuition for Black Lotus, sac it for UUU, Artificer's Intutition for 3 Myr Servitors, which would require UU and two artifacts in hand, along with Artificer's Intuition in play.

It's really not a hard play.

Getting Sensei's Top into the graveyard is easy: Thirst for Knowledge, Intuition, Artificer's Intuition, Frantic Search would all be easy plays that fit into the deck's theme any way.

-hq

to start with I don't ever recall anyone "going ape nuts over long/smennen's affinity" secondly this play only requires 1 of a 4 of and any 2 artifacts to work.  thats WAY WAY easier than seeing all 4 coppies of a specific 4 of even using intuition as you now need locket of yesterday, intuition, top and a kill card all in hand or in play to even begin this combo.  presuming you've managed to pitch a top already you could also do this with 2 of your remaining 3 tops.  the point is that the odds of seeing 3 of a specific 4 of, and a discard outlet, and a locket of yesterday, and a kill card  in your first 10 or so cards are aweful, and if you're building your deck around that you're gonna lose a lot of games where your 4+ card combo requiring duplicate cards doesnt' come together by turn 3 and you just sit there waiting.