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Author Topic: Type One DCI.  (Read 3556 times)
Evenpence
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« on: September 25, 2006, 05:15:38 pm »

TYPE ONE DCI!  (TYPE ONE AND A QUARTER!)

Make your own banned / restricted list with your friends, then take a week to make a deck, and play a fun tournament!

1)  Players sit in a circle and randomly determine who starts the elimination (banning/restricting) process.
2)  The starting player chooses to ban or restrict any card.
3)  After the starting player chooses to ban or restrict a card, each player marks that card as being banned or restricted on his own list.
4)  The turn rotates clockwise, giving each player in the circle a chance to ban or restrict any card he or she chooses.
5)  This proceeds until each player is given an equal number of opportunities to ban or restrict cards until the total number of banned and restricted cards totals 50 or slightly above.
     *  5 players would each get 10 turns in banning/restricting the card of his or her choice.  (50 Bannings/Restrictions Total).
     *  6 players would each get 9 turns of banning/restricting the card of his or her choice.  (54 Bannings/Restrictions Total).
     *  7 players would each get 8 turns of banning/restricting the card of his or her choice.  (56 Bannings/Restrictions Total).
     *  8 players would each get 7 turns of banning/restricting the card of his or her choice.  (56 Bannings/Restrictions Total).
     *  9 players would each get 6 turns of banning/restricting the card of his or her choice.  (54 Bannings/Restrictions Total).  Etc.

6)  Once a card is restricted, it CANNOT be banned.
7)  Once a card is banned, it CANNOT be restricted.
8)  The same card cannot be restricted or banned twice.
9)  Cards not on the list, such as Zephyr Falcon or Chimney Imp may be restricted or banned.
10)  Ante Cards, as well as Chaos Orb and Falling Star are banned before the tournament starts, and they may not be restricted or named.

A)  After the bannings/restrictions are chosen, players have a pre-determined amount of time in which to build their decks.  (Usually 1-2 weeks).
B)  Deck construction rules are normal.  Players may use any number of proxies (as some cards, ex. Mox Pearl, may not be restricted or banned).
C)  The winner of the previous tournament recieves 1st seat in the DCI elimination (banning/restricting) process.  2nd place gets 2nd seat, etc.
D)  Others (not previously seated at the elimination process table) may enter into the tournament as long as they recieve the current banned/restricted list and other (if needed) rules.
E)  Any of the rules above your playgroup may change, after all, it's a casual format.  You can play for prizes if you want though.

The following cards are here for a helpful list of cards which your playgroup might consider restricting/banning.

Vintage Restricted List:

* 1)  Ancestral Recall
* 2)  Balance
* 3)  Black Lotus
* 4)  Black Vise
* 5)  Burning Wish
* 6)  Channel
* 7)  Chrome Mox
* 8)  Crop Rotation
* 9)  Demonic Consultation
* 10)  Demonic Tutor
* 11)  Dream Halls
* 12)  Enlightened Tutor
* 13)  Entomb
* 14)  Fact or Fiction
* 15)  Fastbond
* 16)  Frantic Search
* 17)  Grim Monolith
* 18)  Gush
* 19)  Imperial Seal
* 20)  Library of Alexandria
* 21)  Lion’s Eye Diamond
* 22)  Lotus Petal
* 23)  Mana Crypt
* 24)  Mana Vault
* 25)  Memory Jar
* 26)  Mind Twist
* 27)  Mind’s Desire
* 28)  Mox Diamond
* 29)  Mox Emerald
* 30)  Mox Jet
* 31)  Mox Pearl
* 32)  Mox Ruby
* 33)  Mox Sapphire
* 34)  Mystical Tutor
* 35)  Necropotence
* 36)  Personal Tutor
* 37)  Regrowth
* 38)  Sol Ring
* 39)  Strip Mine
* 40)  Time Spiral
* 41)  Time Walk
* 42)  Timetwister
* 43)  Tinker
* 44)  Tolarian Academy
* 45)  Trinisphere
* 46)  Vampiric Tutor
* 47)  Voltaic Key
* 48)  Wheel of Fortune
* 49)  Windfall
* 50)  Yawgmoth’s Bargain
* 51)  Yawgmoth’s Will

Legacy Banned List:

* 1)  Bazaar of Baghdad
* 2)  Earthcraft
* 3)  Goblin Recruiter
* 4)  Hermit Druid
* 5)  Illusionary Mask
* 6)  Land Tax
* 7)  Mana Drain
* 8)  Mishra's Workshop
* 9)  Metalworker
* 10)  Mind Over Matter
* 11)  Oath of Druids
* 12)  Replenish
* 13)  Skullclamp
* 14)  Worldgorger Dragon

Others:

* 1)  Arcbound Ravager
* 2)  Auriok Salvagers
* 3)  Brain Freeze
* 4)  Brainstorm
* 5)  Dark Confidant
* 6)  Dark Ritual
* 7)  Darksteel Colossus
* 8)  Force of Will
* 9)  Gifts Ungiven
* 10)  Grapeshot
* 11)  Grim Tutor
* 12)  Goblin Charbelcher
* 13)  Goblin Welder
* 14)  Hurkyl's Recall
* 15)  Ill-Gotten Gains
* 16)  Intuition
* 17)  Jotun Grunt
* 18)  Mindslaver
* 19)  Null Rod
* 20)  Orim's Chant
* 21)  Smokestack
* 22)  Stifle
* 23)  Tendrils of Agony
* 24)  Tormod's Crypt

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The idea got spawned by me thinking it would be really cool to be able to play some old decks that still had guidelines but were still 'broken' in their own way, for instance, Tinker.dec, or old T2 Academy.

Some basic strategy:

Banning or Restricting Yawgmoth's Will (and subsequently Tendrils) is probably the most important decision and will usually be made first.  Restricting Will makes it so that no one can ban it, I.E., that combo will most likely be a viable choice.

You'll notice that there are 51 cards on the Vintage Restricted list, and I had a general ending period of about 50.  This is because if Will gets banned first, you can reliably not worry about some of the cards on the Restricted List, and begin to ban archetypes that you don't particularly like (such as Dragon or Belcher) if you choose to do so.

If Will gets restricted, you're probably going to follow along similiar lines to the Vintage Restricted list - although you'll have some people that simply ban everything and don't restrict anything, and that's fine too.  It's for fun, afterall, and if all you were doing was playing Vintage, there'd be no reason to play this format.

For a variation, you can make a "INDESTRUCTIBLE" variant, where a player can choose instead to make it so that a card cannot become banned or restricted, although I would heavily advise that this clause is included only on things which are not on the restricted list.

The primary reason I enjoy this format is because it allows me to take deck construction skills to the next level - being able to ban what other people are allowed to use against me.  Although I don't intend on using this often, it is a vital strategy.  For instance, if I wanted to play Stax, I could ban Drain and Hurkyl's Recall.  Once the elminations are done, it's also fun to see what evolves as the best possible deck you can build.

For instance, you might have the following deck choices to pick from because no one picked up on them:
Academy
Balance-Rack.dec (heh)
4x Gush GAT
4x Burning Wish Long without Will or Tendrils
Metalworker Staff
UW Fish
Ichorid

The question is:  What's the best deck?  And what's your sideboard going to look like?  What do you expect everyone else to play?  Etc.

The format is as balanced as you make it.  Smile
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 12:56:51 pm by Evenpence » Logged

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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
Ephraim
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 12:22:01 am »

I'm on my way to bed shortly, but this really looks like a fascinating variant.  One thing that occured to me is that if you're savvy, you'll take notes about who bans or restricts which cards.  If you notice that one player is consistently banning a card that you'd like to use, you have the interesting option of restricting it before it gets banned so that you can at least use a single copy.

If I ever have a good, dedicated play group with whom to play, I may have to give this one a try.  Alternate deckbuilding rules are my favourite way of generating a casual variant.  Nice work, Evenpence!
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Anusien
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 12:37:38 am »

Any particular reason why there's a cap to the number of bannings?  I'd do something like cap at 50 or each player can pass, although I imagine most people wouldn't.

The other idea might be life bidding.  Start with 100 or so life, and let players bid life on bannings/restrictings (although I wonder if that would ever be interesting, or just take forever).


This is a very very interesting idea.  The only thing is I'd love to see a way for this to work on the spot (maybe keep a stack of cards/proxies handy and just build decks on the spot with like 30 minutes or so to construct) to work as a pickup game like T4.
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 01:53:51 am »

We should so do this on MWS.
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Evenpence
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 09:13:10 pm »

I'm going to do this with my friends tonight and I'll let you guys know what the b/r list is, although I have to ask you guys to refrain from posting deck ideas on the thread, as it's supposed to be an individual (non-public thing).  I'll gladly post what decks won though when we do the tournament.

The reason that the cap is 50 (or roundabout there) is because it's simple and it's right around the same number of Vintage Restricted Cards, which is probably best for a powerful, yet somewhat balanced format.

If you make the cap too little, you run the risk of their just being one absolute best deck that demolishes everything, and if you make it too high, you get a really crappy Legacy.

EDIT:

Okay, so here's the deal:

We didn't have a big turnout for the draft tonight, so there weren't alot of people to start.  In addition, some people thought it would be funny to ban lands, as I told them any Magic Card was capable of being banned.  So, Island got banned early and the trend continued.

Get ready for absolute Belcher brokenness.format:

Un-Sets, Chaos Orb, Falling Star, and Ante cards are never legal, remember.

Restricted list:

Dream Halls
Gush
Mox Diamond
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Trinisphere

Bazaar of Baghdad
Mishra's Workshop

Auriok Salvagers
Force of Will (NOT MY PICK)
Goblin Welder
Orim's Chant

BANNED:

Island
Snow Covered Island
Underground Sea
Volcanic Island
Tropical Island
Watery Grave
Crucible of Worlds
Goblin Lackey

Ancestral Recall
Balance
Black Lotus
Fact or Fiction
Memory Jar
Mind's Desire
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Sapphire
Necropotence
Personal Tutor
Strip Mine
Time Walk
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Wheel of Fortune
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will

Goblin Recruiter
Illusionary Mask
Mana Drain
Oath of Druids
Replenish
Skullclamp
Worldgorger Dragon

Brain Freeze
Darksteel Colossus
Grapeshot
Jotun Grunt
Mindslaver
Tendrils of Agony

NOTABLE CARDS WHICH ARE ALLOWED AS 4-OFS:

Black Vise
Burning Wish
Channel
Chrome Mox
Crop Rotation
Demonic Consultation
Demonic Tutor
Enlightened Tutor
Entomb
Fastbond
Frantic Search
Grim Monolith
Imperial Seal
Library of Alexandria
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lotus Petal
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Mind Twist
Mystical Tutor
Regrowth
Sol Ring
Time Spiral
Timetwister
Vampiric Tutor
Voltaic Key
Windfall

Earthcraft
Hermit Druid
Land Tax
Metalworker
Mind Over Matter

Brainstorm
Dark Confidant
Dark Ritual
Gifts Ungiven
Grim Tutor
GOBLIN CHARBELCHER
Hurkyl's Recall
Ill-Gotten Gains
Intuition
NULL ROD
Smokestack
Stifle
Tormod's Crypt

Obviously, my pick is Goblin Charbelcher to win.  I don't know what else can compete in a format with 1 Force of Will decks and virtually 0 blue.  Also, having access to stupid amounts of colorless mana and super-tutors like Demonic Tutor and Demonic Consultation isn't bad either.

Basically, this list shouldn't count.  But it will be a learning experience, and will be fun trying to defeat Belcher or win coin flips.  Afterall, the list will change in a week.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 09:16:54 pm by Evenpence » Logged

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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
Anusien
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 07:49:12 pm »

Unrestricted Channel?  Miiiise.
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2006, 12:06:00 pm »

Channel-Fireball!

Did you have the Vintage Restricted list available so people would know what to pick or is remembering what broken cards still need to be banned part of the challenge?
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2006, 12:14:49 pm »

We all had a list of the cards that I had above and marked them B or R.  I had a red and a blue marker, personally - red for banned, blue for restricted.
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2006, 12:26:42 pm »

We all had a list of the cards that I had above and marked them B or R.  I had a red and a blue marker, personally - red for banned, blue for restricted.

And people banned 6 Islands over all that mana acceleration? I mean, "Island is banned" is funny, but removing six blue-producing lands is hardly as effective at hurting blue control as say, restricting Force of Will and banning Mana Drain. Also, they didn't hit Tundra, so Brainstorm + fetchlands = still a combo.

If your playgroup is smart this will be Belcher vs. Null Rod format. Why didn't you ban Null Rod and ensure your victory?

Maybe you should up the ban/restrict quota to more than 50, so people can have fun choices, without leaving too many broken cards unrestricted.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
Evenpence
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2006, 12:36:35 pm »

I'm going to agree with everything you just said, except for the ban/restrict quota being upped to more than 50ish.

The card choices were poor - not the limit.  Banning Island is just stupid, and we all know that now.

I'm surprised all the moxes got touched, honestly.  Also, I thought it was peculiar getting Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain banned/restricted when Tendrils and Will had already been banned, but, you know.
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2006, 01:16:35 pm »

I'm going to agree with everything you just said, except for the ban/restrict quota being upped to more than 50ish.

The card choices were poor - not the limit.  Banning Island is just stupid, and we all know that now.

I'm surprised all the moxes got touched, honestly.  Also, I thought it was peculiar getting Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain banned/restricted when Tendrils and Will had already been banned, but, you know.

First, 'Potence and Bargain were restricted well before Tendrils was printed. I'm not surprised the moxen were all removed. I am surprised that Sol Ring, Mana Vault and Mana Crypt were left alone.

I still think it should be higher than 50, because although a lot of the choices were poor, there weren't really all that many bad choices. I count somewhere around 13-17 "silly" choices, including the six islands, Salvager's restriction, Orim's Chant, Crucible, Grapeshot, Jotun Grunt, Mindslaver, Collossus with Tinker banned,  and possibly Illusionary Mask. Regardless, You still have half the restricted list legal. There has to be enough room to hit a majority of the artifact acceleration at the very least, plus hit the power cards like Will and Bargain and draw7s, and still have the ability to hit "metagame" or "pet" cards like Force of Will and Goblin Welder, which are decent choices. It seems like people spent most of their choices on restricted and banned cards, and still left too many restricted cards available. I'd worry about trying to ban a card like Goblin Welder or Chalice of the Void  if I knew that meant that at least one mana accelerant would probably be unrestricted.

I like Vise Affinity's chance with this list, too.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 01:32:24 pm »

With 4x Fastbond, 4x Exploration, 4x Zuran Orb, 4x Timetwister, and 4x Demonic Tutor to find them, LifeFromtheLoam Turboland might be viable, although if the format degenerates into Belcher decks it won't be.  Still, taking infinite turns starting on turn 1 seems fun. 

Also note that since 4x Twister is legal, you could easily generate infinite mana on turn 1 and deck your opponent with like Braingeyser.  The lack of Force makes this a lot more potent as well.  4x LED would be hot in this deck (anyone else immediately think of 30 Lotus 30 Wheel of Fortune 1x Fireball days?)  It may actually be worth using Demonic Consultation in that deck just to accel into the turn 1 infinite, by simply removing half your deck from the game.

Shandalar is giving me tons of crazy ideas for your banned list right now.  This is awesome.
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 01:37:49 pm »

I like Belcher here with Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Channel, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Demonic Consultation, Imperial Seal and Timetwister all unrestricted.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 10:08:47 pm »

With 4x Fastbond, 4x Exploration, 4x Zuran Orb, 4x Timetwister, and 4x Demonic Tutor to find them, LifeFromtheLoam Turboland might be viable, although if the format degenerates into Belcher decks it won't be.  Still, taking infinite turns starting on turn 1 seems fun. 

Also note that since 4x Twister is legal, you could easily generate infinite mana on turn 1 and deck your opponent with like Braingeyser.  The lack of Force makes this a lot more potent as well.  4x LED would be hot in this deck (anyone else immediately think of 30 Lotus 30 Wheel of Fortune 1x Fireball days?)  It may actually be worth using Demonic Consultation in that deck just to accel into the turn 1 infinite, by simply removing half your deck from the game.

Shandalar is giving me tons of crazy ideas for your banned list right now.  This is awesome.

How could this beat Belcher though?
4x Null Rod
4x Pithing Needle
4x Damping Matrix

The problem is in order to accelerate those out on turn one you have to also Drop Artifact mana or the restricted Shop and your Null Rod hoses you.

Also, it is quite possible to go for the turn 1 Glacial Chasm to set you up for a turn 2 win.
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2006, 08:19:01 am »

Quote
How could this beat Belcher though?
4x Null Rod
4x Pithing Needle
4x Damping Matrix

The problem is in order to accelerate those out on turn one you have to also Drop Artifact mana or the restricted Shop and your Null Rod hoses you.

Also, it is quite possible to go for the turn 1 Glacial Chasm to set you up for a turn 2 win.

Pithing Needle, Null Rod and Damping Matrix are easily dropped off Shop, Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors or a minimal amount of artifact acceleration, such as Mana Vault, which you are only going to use once anyway. There's also Rituals.

Turn 1 Glacial Chasm off Exploration or Fastbond might be good as well, but you'll need a second one and a Zuran Orb to keep it up or simply win the game before Chasm kills you.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2006, 08:41:06 am »

The fact that Crucible was banned really hurts Turboland.  It's pretty difficult to go nuts on Turn 1 without it, or the god hand.  If you can drop Needle on Belcher or Null Rod, you have a pretty solid chance, though.  Also, note this:
With 4x Fastbond, 4x Exploration, 4x Zuran Orb, 4x Timetwister, and 4x Demonic Tutor to find them, LifeFromtheLoam Turboland might be viable, although if the format degenerates into Belcher decks it won't be.
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2006, 09:47:23 am »

Workshop was also banned.

I don't think anything will be able to beat Belcher in this format, but it's a learning experience, and we'll have a new banned/restricted list (hopefully a much better one that doesn't ban stupid things like Island) up soon.
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« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2006, 11:56:54 am »

I missed that Crucible was banned.  No point in Turboland then.  Workshop was listed as restricted.
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« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2006, 11:57:44 am »

My bad, it was restricted.
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2006, 03:01:59 pm »

I think there is a justified cause for these calls for allowing more cards to be restricted/banned, but I disagree that simply upping the count would solve the issue.
When cards can be banned or restricted equally, the created formats would imo feel more like legacy than vintage, as the title of this thread would otherwise suggest; besides the cards you initially elliminated, there are no banned cards in vintage at all. Maybe not having the option of a ban at all, or at least limiting the banned list to only the first round, and the rest being only restriction rounds - or alternatively voting on the bannings suggested in a separate round and the top n (n~<=5 or so) being actually banned, and the rest being only restricion rounds?
The results of this initial experiment support this idea also - allmost all choices are ban choices, which makes perfect sense; why would you not choose to ban but to restrict a card that you dont want to be available? Only as a security that it cant be banned instead, but there are so many cards one would need to protect like this if any card can be named, so its easier to 'hit' other people's cards instead. Again, in principle I find it strange that a restricted list is used not to restrict but to allow some card to be played, especially if the format is to resemble vintage...

Then slightly upping the number of restricted cards (60 max for eg?)  should be enough for a sensible format, even if a few choices turn out ridiculous (not sure if such stupidity should even be accomodated at all though).

Quote
count somewhere around 13-17 "silly" choices
out of 50, that by itself is quite a high number - high enough to varrant at least another try before deciding that the count really should be significantly higher..

A possible variant being that intstead of restricting a card, one might choose to declare a card unrestrictable instead? Dont quite know what that would do,probably not worth the try... I also like the life-bidding idea, whether its good and whether its too slow or fun should be tested...

Another simple and imo logical possibility being that options what can be banned or restricted is limited to some preset list - for instance legacy banned cards, vintage restricted cards, possibly adding a few cards that are often debated about....

I think it would be great if people would be interested in experimenting with the restricted list - that experimenting might give the community a better feel for the actual merits of restricting or unrestricting a card on the actual DCI list, and maybe give debates about it some actual knowledge and experience instead of just speculation. It would also give people a chance of experimenting with cards and decks not seen for years - or never seen before at all .. So, thx for a great idea, I hope this casual variant sticks and gains popularity!!!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 03:23:52 pm by aryah » Logged
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