What will Standard look like when Time Spiral becomes legal?

[Keno]

As we all know Time Spiral will become legal soon, kicking Kamigawa out of Standard. With Kamigawa gone we will lose a whole bunch of format defining cards (Jitte, Top, Dragons etc.), and at the same time Time Spiral will be introducing some new curveballs, most notably the timeshifted cards and the suspend mechanic. My questions to you guys/girls are:

1 What do you think will be the best/most defining deck in the new Standard?
2 Which cards do you think will be the most format defining cards in Standard?
3 Which cards/decks do you think will be terrible where others think that they'll be great?

I know this is just speculation, but for some this will help in their testing for Champs while helping others out by giving them some advice on what to trade for. My answers are:

1: Blue/White control. This deck will lose nothing much that it can’t replace. The Dragons will be replaced with Akroma and Sacred Mesa, which are arguably better then Meloku/Keiga. Hinder can be replaced with Rune Snag or Cancel. The non-basics can be replaced with just basics, Desert, Calciform Pools, Flagstones of Troikar, Vesuva, Gemstone Gaverns, Urza’s Factory or perhaps Terramorphic Expanse. Meanwhile other decks will loose Jitte, Top etc. The addition of Akroma and Mesa also makes this deck Skred-proof, meaning that this decks won’t die to a single Skred/cheap removal. Time Spiral also offers up Spellburst and Whispers of the Muse, both of which could be busted.
The only bad matchup will probably be Vore, but Tormod’s Crypt will probably prevent that deck from getting too popular. Against other decks I think the 12-18 counters, WoG, card-draw and Akroma/Mesa will be too much too handle.

2: Hard to tell with some many cards around, but off the top of my hat I’d say Skred, Demonfire, WoG, Tormod’s Crypt, Birds of Paradise, Scrying Sheets, Dark Confidant, Remand and Char. Skred, Remand and Crypt will be format defining because they will restrict deck construction. Demonfire is the only “oops-I-win” card in Standard. Birds, Confidant, Char, Sheets and WoG will be the foundation of some of the best/most popular decks in Standard.

3: I think that the 1000$ Blue/Green/Black aggro deck will be terrible. The deck will probably consist out of 1 mana accelerators, Shadowmages, Hyppies, Vipers, some fat guy and Psionic Blast/removal. The reason I don’t think it’s good is because the deck will probably fold if it doesn’t go t1 BoP, t2 three-drop, and even if it does get that opening that three drop will just die or draw more accelerators/three-drops. It’s too vulnerable and doesn’t do anything relevant imo.

[chrissss]

I have been thinking about this a lot as well. I think you are right with white blue control, maybe a splash of green for voidslime and SSS ( although Akroma can be better)

I do think that suspend is just waiting to be used properly, with cards that take counters from suspend cards. Red blue can be very powerfull in my opinion. 4 Char, 4 Psionic Blast, counters, and Direct damage. Once Incinerate and mogg fanatic are back, this will be even better. jaya ballard will influence red decks a lot imo.

Call of the herd will be back, and it will make green based decks a lot stronger, and together with the Ohran Viper, green can have a lot of card advantage.

[UR]

I've been playing Firemane Control for the past half year and it is still a great deck. My build only loses Hinder (replace with Cancel) and has a great matchup against any aggro deck. I really do think there will be a lot of aggro decks when Time Spiral hits because there are just so many good creatures in the set. Boros Deck wins is getting lots of new goodies and Satanic Sligh could also see a rise in popularity. So Firemane (essentially a UW control deck that splashes red) is on top of my list for being a top deck.

[LordHomerCat]

Methinks if you want to play Firemane, you should add in a Sacred Mesa or two, since you basically just make infinite guys late game and can't possibly lose then (similar to Goblin Trenches back in IPA).

[Roxas]

UR: Mind either posting your current list here, or starting a new thread? I'm interested in U/W/x control for States as well, and it'd be nice if we had a list to reference. All I have is an untested straight UW list that I built from scratch.

[UR]

Here is my current list (not yet updated for TS);

4 Firemane Angel
2 Windreaver

4 Compulsive Research
4 Hinder
4 Rune Snag
2 Tidings
1 Zur's Weirding

2 Faith's Fetters
4 Wrath of God

4 Lightning Helix
2 Odds // Ends
2 Searing Meditation

1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Azorius Chancery
2 Azorius Signet
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Garrison
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
3 Plains
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents

Sideboard;
3 Azorius Guildmage
2 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Condemn
2 Hide // Seek
4 Spell Snare
1 Zur's Weirding

After TS becomes legal I think I will cut the Windreaver because of the 'sudden' cards. I'm not sure just what I'm going to use as a replacement but right now I'm looking at Urza's Factory, Akroma, Angel of Wrath or Draining Whelk. They all have some strong points, but I'll have to try each one out and just see which I like best.

Hinder is obviously replaced with Cancel.

Hide // Seek in the board is going to be replaced with Disenchant (maybe not if I decide to run Gemstone Mine in the mainboard, but as yet I see little reason to do so).

Searing Meditation is just there as a random win and sometimes I cut it for other cards. I've tried a lot of cards in that slot including Debtor's Knell, Faith's Fetters, Zur's Weirding, Rewind, etc. etc. It doesn't really matter what you play there but for my local metagame I like the Searing Meditation.

I hadn't looked at Sacred Mesa but I can see how it is a good card in this deck. I never ran Meloku because it dies to the creature hate that will build up in your opponents hand (you never play anything so they get stuck with it. The creatures I run now can still evade it despite him holding three or even four removal spells). Sacred Mesa also evades this problem except for Mortify which seems to be in every deck these days.

I have seen a million different mana-bases for this sort of deck and feel free to change it. I never look at it because I never get color-screwed and rarely get mana-screwed (flooded is more like it with 25 sources, including 2 karoos). The only thing I would never change is Prahv, Spires of Order. It is a much underrated card that really shines in a deck that does very little for the first 15 turns. It stops Simic Sky Swallower, Niv Mizzet, the Firemind, Windreaver and other problematic cards while not costing you a card. Sure, it does little more than buy you time, but that is all this deck needs because it completely owns the late-game against most decks.
The signets aren't there for acceleration as most people think, they are merely there for when the opponent has a Blood Moon, although sometimes they are great against Vore. With eight cards to get around Blood Moon there is usually little reason to counter it.

I like Zur's Weirding but it is sometimes difficult to judge whether or not you should play it, that is why I only included a single copy. Against most control-decks however, I bring in the second copy (instead of the second Windreaver) and just try to resolve one early. Sometimes it really pays to play aggressive with this card.

The sideboard is pretty straight-forward and has recently undergone some major changes since Vore and Owl died in the Netherlands. I used to have Guardian of the Guildpact and Peace of Mind in there just in case I would run into those decks. They were replaced with Hide // Seek (against a local deck) and Condemn.

Let me hear what you think. I'd be happy to further explain card-choices and the reasoning behind it should something be unclear.

[Matt]

Why wouldn't Solar Flare become really good now that it has Akroma?

[Roxas]

It might. It might have a rough time with infinitecounters.dec though, and both Flores and Osyp have been touting that deck type so it'll probably be played.

[Matt]

Someone should totally remake Donais5CU, complete with duals and Blessings.

[rvs]

Dragonstorm!

At least, that is what my playing on the Modo TS beta says.

[ReAnimator]

Someone should totally remake Donais5CU, complete with duals and Blessings.

Already have but only UGW as you don't really need B or R for anything (maybe splash for demonfire or invoke but it is probably just greedy if you do).

Mystic snake is a beating. (i know it isn't in the original) the deck seem's promising the problem is it is hard to find the right balance between which counters and draw spells to run.

[Pandora]

Dragonstorm!

At least, that is what my playing on the Modo TS beta says.

Amen to that! I (a horribly mediocre player) built a Dragonstorm deck for a playtesting tournament today and managed to go 2-1, with the loss being to COP: Red and Ivory Mask/Akroma post-sideboarding. I came up with the list off the top of my head in five minutes and it was far from optimal, but decent. I think I had two turn 4 kills and was never in much danger of losing (other than a deadly Jester's Cap). It's a very easy deck to hate out, but it can win out of nowhere quite easily. I probably wouldn't play it at States, but expect to see it, for sure.

[Disburden]

I mentioned this on the t2 forums at Star City. I find it weird that no body has seemed to be testing the Suspend Mechanic. I find that it could be extremely powerful when played and has a deck based around it. I agree with Flores, he mentions in a article, that people that are just trying to tweak COK era decks with TS cards are in for a shock. So why try to make a Keiga-less Tron deck?

I strongly think Suspend will be out at States.

[Anusien]

The best suspend cards are too slow.  Restore Balance is cute with the 9/7 dude, but he eats a land + Condemn, and Restore Balance is way too slow anyway.

Plus, people are already playing with the best Suspend hoser - Teferi.  He's going to be in the sideboard of every control deck, and he rips Suspend a new one.

Plus, Remand is still naughty-level good.

[UR]

This card is not good, and will never make it to any deck of mine." -Jeroen Remie on Ancestral Visions

And I agree with him completely...

[Disburden]

I don't think we see enough interactions with the Suspend cards to even predict right now how good they are or not. See how when Mirrodin came out and people thought Tooth and Nail, Mindslaver, and Affinitely sucked.

This is the biggest mechanic of the set and to say that it won't be involved in the format post rotation just seems foolish, imo. I predict when I download Pro tour footage that it'll be seen. 

[Vegeta2711]

I don't think we see enough interactions with the Suspend cards to even predict right now how good they are or not. See how when Mirrodin came out and people thought Tooth and Nail, Mindslaver, and Affinitely sucked.

This is the biggest mechanic of the set and to say that it won't be involved in the format post rotation just seems foolish, imo. I predict when I download Pro tour footage that it'll be seen. 

Considering there isn't a Standard Pro Tour anytime soon, unless you mean TS limited, this seems wrong.  :lol:

[Disburden]

What I am saying is any Pro tour that has Standard while Time Spiral is legal will have a lot of decks using Suspend. Not that I am thinking of one in particular that is coming soon. My point is, within six months, Suspend will be used by Pros and people will change how they thought it sucked.

Just like with Affinity and Tooth and Nail, Platinum Angel,MindSlaver, etc.

Most of the time, with any new standard Rotation, there are new mechanics. Most mechanics are dismissed as unplayable. Then Pro Tours happen and people see how they were made to be playable by great players. I don't feel this is any different.

I'm sorry if you thought I meant I was sitting at home, right now, waiting for a Pro Tour in Standard within the month.

[kirdape3]

Worlds has a Standard portion, and that's the most relevant tournament there is.  Hi-YA!

Suspend has a place, and some of the cards are quite silly.  I don't know how to make them work correctly yet though.

[Komatteru]

Remand seems to make a pretty good mockery out of suspend cards.  If only every deck in the format weren't running that...

[Disburden]

Remand seems to make a pretty good mockery out of suspend cards.  If only every deck in the format weren't running that...

So do you think it's a good call to hold on to Remand for a Suspended spell while your opponent is playing threats now? Seems like a good mind fuck for the Remand player since they see the inevitible on the board and see you playing spells at the same time.

[Keno]

Remand seems to make a pretty good mockery out of suspend cards.  If only every deck in the format weren't running that...

So do you think it's a good call to hold on to Remand for a Suspended spell while your opponent is playing threats now? Seems like a good mind fuck for the Remand player since they see the inevitible on the board and see you playing spells at the same time.

Holding back suspend cards is awfull. Suspend is good early. You don't want to draw Ancestral Visions late right? Holding suspend cards back is the same as drawing it late, so you're basically better of playing other cards without suspend.

So we've been exposed to TS for some weeks now and I was wondering what you guys think the metagame will look like. There a lot of decks out there but which will be the most played/defening decks right now? Personally I think: Zoo, Dragonstorm, U/Wcontrol, U/G and Flare will be the most popular/better decks.

[Anusien]

Remand seems to make a pretty good mockery out of suspend cards.  If only every deck in the format weren't running that...

So do you think it's a good call to hold on to Remand for a Suspended spell while your opponent is playing threats now? Seems like a good mind fuck for the Remand player since they see the inevitible on the board and see you playing spells at the same time.

Seems like a better mindfuck to have your Remand bait be castable, like ever.