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Author Topic: [Deck] Elvish Storm  (Read 5142 times)
SiegeX
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« on: October 01, 2006, 04:42:50 am »

If we take a big-picture look at what all storm-combo decks want to do, it all boils down to two things

1) Make lots of mana
2) Play lots of spells in a single turn

Green just so happens to be great at doing both of these things.  Where your traditional storm deck uses moxen and hurkyl's Recall/Rebuild to build up a leathal storm count, green can use Quirion Ranger/Wirewood Symbiote.  We all know that Tolarian Academy is the straight nuts, well green can have a two full sets of them in the form of Gaea's Cradle and Priest of Titania.  Throw a concordant crossroads into the mix and things start to get pretty nutty real fast. 

You might be saying to yourself, green has no disruption so this will never be viable in the broken T1 environment and to that I say not so!  Because by and large we are using creatures to produce mana, you can play this deck much like stax in the early game setting up Tanglewire/Root Maze/Winter Orb/Choke/Wasteland/Strip to lock down your opponent's mana base. 

One thing that we should not overlook is the fact that unlike conventional storm, this deck laughs in the face of Chalice and Null Rod, it is by and large immune to all that artifact hate that is so prevalent in today's meta.  I should mention that this deck does roll to pyroclasm if you put all your eggs in one basket and don't go off for leathal storm so it could see some collateral damage from fish hate.

Rather than post a deck list, I am going to propose individual cards and a reason behind their inclusion.  It is my hope that together we can come up with a viable alternative to a storm deck.  And with no further ado...


Quote
Llanowar Elves {G} |Creature -- Elf Druid| 1/1. T: Add {G} to your mana pool.
Fyndhorn Elves {G} |Creature -- Elf| 1/1. T: Add {G} to your mana pool.
[/tt]
These 8 guys are green's equivalent of moxen and will allow us turn Root Maze/Winter Orb into a one-sided effect

Quote
Priest of Titania {1} {G} |Creature -- Elf| 1/1. T: Add G to your mana pool for each Elf in play.
[/tt]
Since we are using elves in lieu of moxen, how does 4x equivalent of Tolarian Academy sound? Daddy like!

Quote
Wirewood Symbiote {G} |Creature -- Insect| 1/1. Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn.
Quirion Ranger {G} |Creature -- Elf| 1/1. Return a Forest you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn.
[/tt]
As mentioned above, these are the Hurkyl's Recall/Rebuild of our deck.  Returning an arbitrary elf only to untap a Priest of Titania is tech.

Quote
Viridian Shaman  {2} {G} |Creature -- Elf Shaman| 2/2. When Viridian Shaman comes into play, destroy target artifact.
Viridian Zealot  {G} {G} |Creature -- Elf Warrior| 2/1. 1G, Sacrifice Viridian Zealot: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
[/tt]
It just wouldn't be complete without a bit of hate

Quote
Quirion Sentinel {1} {G} |Creature -- Elf| 2/1. When Quirion Sentinel comes into play, add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
[/tt]
Lotus Petal on legs to help power out our storm spell

Quote
Skyshroud Poacher {2} {G} {G} |Creature -- Rebel| 2/2. 3, T: Search your library for an Elf card and put that card into play. Then shuffle your library.
[/tt]
It's a bit on the expensive side but keep in mind it tutors for an Elf and puts it into PLAY

Quote
Concordant Crossroads {G} |World Enchantment| All creatures have haste.
[/tt]
This is probably the single most important combo-enabler in the deck, in a sense its like Yawg Will in that respect.  Until this comes down, we will just be bringing the beats.

Quote
Skullclamp {1} |Artifact -- Equipment| Equipped creature gets +1/-1. / When equipped creature is put into a graveyard, draw two cards. / Equip {1}
[/tt]
Our draw engine

Quote
Root Maze {G} |Enchantment| Artifacts and lands come into play tapped.
Choke {2} {G} |Enchantment| Islands don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
Winter Orb {2} |Artifact| As long as Winter Orb is untapped, players can't untap more than one land during their untap steps.
Tangle Wire {3} |Artifact| Fading 4 / At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player taps an untapped artifact, creature, or land he or she controls for each fade counter on Tangle Wire.
[/tt]
Our 1-sided disruption

Quote
Grapeshot {1} {R} |Sorcery| Grapeshot deals 1 damage to target creature or player. / Storm
Brain Freeze {1} {U} |Instant| Target player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. / Storm
Tendrils of Agony {2} {B} {B} |Sorcery| Target player loses 2 life and you gain 2 life. / Storm
[/tt]
Our win condition






« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 04:54:33 pm by SiegeX » Logged
jaeppel
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2006, 07:04:36 am »



Quote
Priest of Titania {1} {G} |Creature -- Elf| 1/1. T: Add G to your mana pool for each Elf in play.
[/tt]
Since we are using elves in lieu of moxen, how does 4x equivalent of Tolarian Academy sound? Daddy like!


You seem to have forgotten green's real Academy.... where is Gaea's cradle? 
This seems like it could be a great Legacy deck.  In fact, it is.  Forget storm, just cast overrun for the win.
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+t
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2006, 09:25:11 am »

I'm not sure why you'd want to play an off color storm spell when you could just Staff of Domination for the win, other than the whole "not being shut off by null rod" thing.  This would allow you to run a single Overrun as your win condition instead, taking away the need to run awful cards like Poacher.  Crossroads is really hot with staff also, but I'm not sure you really need 4 of them, since you're only going to want it when you go off.

Worldly Tutor may merit some inclusion, since the deck needs Priest to win.  Perhaps you could even chuck in Wirewood Herald.

Anyway, I'm gald to see someone trying to play mono green.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 09:29:54 am by +t » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2006, 10:03:14 am »

This kind of deck has been used here in our local tournies. Its really fun to play.
Tendrils win is just another fancier kill condition.

Here are some other cards to use:

Wirewood Hivemaster - create insect tokens per elf that you play and sac the token to skull clamp to draw more cards.
Wirewood Herald - Sac to skullclamp, draw two then search or the other way around.
Timberwatch Elf - Yup. Attack with all of the creatures that you have, since he will not know which one to block, pump the ones that are free to the fullest extent (untap Timberwatch Elf with quirion Ranger, Symbiote, etc.)

Staff was tried to be used but its kind of slow because you need 5 elves in play (one which is a Priest of Titania) for the combo to go off. Unlike Skullclamop where you can sac any elf when needed to draw two cards immediately giving a faster clock.

And yeah... Poacher is not needed in the deck.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 10:06:57 am by dawgie » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2006, 10:05:21 am »

If you're going to keep this type 1, fastbond might not be a bad addition.  It will let you randomly break your curve in half since unlike traditional combo decks you can't really rely on a full set of moxes to ramp up your turn 1 mana.

Edit: to make actual sense.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 12:02:28 pm by Slack » Logged

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jaeppel
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2006, 11:30:14 am »

And what about Slate of Ancestry?  Staff takes 8 to drop and draw one card, Slate costs the same but quickly turns into a one-sided draw7.  The best part is, you dont have to crack it, so with some untap effect you can go again and again.  you should be able to draw your entire deck in one turn, overrun, GG.

something like 4xclamp 3xSlate 1xStaff of Domination should draw one hell of a lot of cards.
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2006, 11:34:14 am »

Don't forget that new elf from Coldsnap - Boreal Druid.  It doesn't produce green, but in most cases it's Llanowar Elves #9-12.
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2006, 01:21:36 pm »

unless you have some sort of draw engine, the most you can storm up to is like 6, so i think the entire idea of the deck is dumb.

that may just be the fact that this is elves, but even if that is so, it sounds stupid to me.
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2006, 01:45:24 pm »

Can I ask why the hell you're not playing the Apocalypse Elf that digs for more Elves?
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2006, 02:17:55 pm »

This kind of deck has been used here in our local tournies. Its really fun to play.


Got a list?  From the post you made, it seems like you're playing a list that is a bit more aggro-centered than the deck the original poster proposed.  Are you running Tangle Wire/Orb/Rootmaze?

The more I think about it, the more attractive Herald seems.  He serves the same purpose as Matron in this deck. 

How do people feel about Pyroclasm?  The best answer I can think of to it is Caller of the Claw.
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2006, 04:22:44 pm »


One thing that we should not overlook is the fact that unlike conventional storm, this deck laughs in the face of Chalice and Null Rod, it is by and large immune to all that artifact hate that is so prevalent in today's meta.
Actually, this deck suffers serious damage from chalice@1.  It shuts of crossroads, llanowar, fyndhorn, symbiote, skullclamp and quirion ranger, which is at least about 20 cards of your deck.
Null Rod > Skullclamp also.

I should mention that this deck does roll to pyroclasm if you put all your eggs in one basket and don't go off for leathal storm so it could see some collateral damage from fish hate.
Next to pyroclasm, you've gat balance, darkblast, ENGINEERED PLAGUE!!

I think elves can be a fun deck to play, but maybe you need to look more for an aggro stax-like deck.
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2006, 09:19:21 pm »

This kind of deck has been used here in our local tournies. Its really fun to play.


Got a list?  From the post you made, it seems like you're playing a list that is a bit more aggro-centered than the deck the original poster proposed.  Are you running Tangle Wire/Orb/Rootmaze?

The more I think about it, the more attractive Herald seems.  He serves the same purpose as Matron in this deck. 

How do people feel about Pyroclasm?  The best answer I can think of to it is Caller of the Claw.


This is the list that I can think of from the top of my head, its been a long time since I've played this deck casually.

4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Timberwatch Elf
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Wirewood Herald
4 Skullclamp
3 Concordant Crossroads
3 Wirewood Hivemaster
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
(insert other stuff here like Tendrils, Mana Base, etc)

Explode by getting all those elves out, then attack. Pump with Timberwatch Elves.  Razz
Tangle Wire is a good option but I never took this deck seriously. Just usually used for casual playing.
And it does look like it dies to Pyro.  Razz
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2006, 02:29:20 pm »

Glimpse of Nature is simply retarded in decks like this, and it's a mistake not to run it.
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SiegeX
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2006, 04:53:28 pm »

Wow thanks for all the replies, I honestly wasn't expecting as much. 

I guess I'll start in order

Quote
You seem to have forgotten green's real Academy.... where is Gaea's cradle? 
Doh, how could I miss that, its even on my pseudo deck list.  Good catch, def a must-include

Quote
Wirewood Hivemaster - create insect tokens per elf that you play and sac the token to skull clamp to draw more cards.
Wirewood Herald - Sac to skullclamp, draw two then search or the other way around.
Timberwatch Elf - Yup. Attack with all of the creatures that you have, since he will not know which one to block, pump the ones that are free to the fullest extent (untap Timberwatch Elf with quirion Ranger, Symbiote, etc.)

I originally had the Hivemaster on my list but I thought he was too narrow. Other than making clamp fodder he really didnt add toward my goal of making mana and playing spells.  However, if this deck was turned into pure beatdown I would def give him a 2nd look.

I think Herald is a better fit in this deck as I posted it, but as i'll get to in a moment i dont think he is viable anymore

Timberwatch is def a great finisher, even though we arnt trying to win in the red zone, he may be a great plan B in case we fail to get lethal storm.

Quote
If you're going to keep this type 1, fastbond might not be a bad addition.  It will let you randomly break your curve in half since unlike traditional combo decks you can't really rely on a full set of moxes to ramp up your turn 1 mana.

I think this card has alot of promise, i dont think i would make it a 4-of, but perhaps 2 is the right number.  It is def worth testing out.

Quote
Can I ask why the hell you're not playing the Apocalypse Elf that digs for more Elves?

I'm assuming you're referring to Sylvan Messenger who was another guy on my list that didn't make the cut.  Even though he is a green version of Goblin Ringleader which is used in many if not most goblin decks, Green doesn't have the equivlent of Goblin Warchief.  Goblin's hardly ever pays full price for Ringleader and I think 4 is just too much for his ability.

Quote
Don't forget that new elf from Coldsnap - Boreal Druid.  It doesn't produce green, but in most cases it's Llanowar Elves #9-12.

I personally think 8 slots is enough for 1-drop mana producers and im afraid the colorless will end up biting me in the ass when I most need the {G}

Quote
Actually, this deck suffers serious damage from chalice@1.  It shuts of crossroads, llanowar, fyndhorn, symbiote, skullclamp and quirion ranger, which is at least about 20 cards of your deck.
Null Rod > Skullclamp also.

You're right, I've been so used to playing chalice@0 that I totally ignored the fact that Challice@1 could be some sad times for this deck.  Similarly, I overlooked the fact that nullrod shuts off our only draw engine which IMHO is unacceptable.   To answer Chalice we have Zealot and Shaman and sombody suggested wordly tutor which I think is a great fit in here to get those silver bullets when you need it.  As for Null Rod shutting down our draw engine, I was very happy to see this comment:

Quote
Glimpse of Nature is simply stupid in decks like this, and it's a mistake not to run it.

This card totally escaped my mind and I think for all intents and purposes it is strictly better than skull clamp in this deck for a few reasons

  • It's not an artifact which solves the null rod problem
  • We are drawing cards without destroying guys that add to our Gaea's Cradle/Prist Of Titiana count
  • We can draw cards off creatures regardless if their thoughness is 1 or not (im assuming we wont double equip clamp here)
  • It's only a 1-time investmeant of a single {G} that we get to reap the rewards from time and time again by casting more elves rather than paying to equip

So what is the general consensus for this deck?  Do you feel that trying to squeeze in a storm kill is just trying to do something cute/cool with a deck that really wants to bash face?  If you do feel storm has great synergy with this deck what card do you prospose to FINISH HIM! with, and how many main-deck? 

I guess another question that must be asked is should this be a Legacy deck or can it compete in Vintage?

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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2006, 05:21:17 pm »

Let me just remind you that Fastbond is restricted.

Well if you don't want to add Hivemaster and kill your elves for the draw on skullclamp, then lets put in Caller of the Claw as plan B. Kill all your elves, then drop down Caller. Return with Symbiote, play, then create more tokens, then attack.

I'm not pretty sure why you want to cut Herald. Sac to Clamp, look for an elf then draw two cards, or go the other way around.

If you will make this legacy, then you need to drop Skullclamp since its banned in Legacy. Glimpse of Nature needs to be used then or Staff of Dominance. When that happens, Herald will be cut then.

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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2006, 07:25:05 pm »

In the past, I have toyed with decks similar to yours and believe that you have overlooked a couple of key cards.  They are as follows:

Lightning Greaves - Acts as extra crossroads with the equip cost of zero.  Untargetability is a bonus.

Elvish Spirit Guide - Provides fast mana.  More on this later.

Birchlore Rangers - Allows excess elves to provide mana and allows access to mana of other colors.

Genesis Chamber - More creatures, especially useful with Birchlore Rangers.  Benefit to opponent is negligible.


In tinkering with elves decks in the past, especially in Type 1, I have come to the following conclusion: Your fundamental turn is one.  You must drop as much mana (or mana producing dudes) on turn one to be successful.  Turn one is your setup for turns 2 and 3, which is where you will need mana the most.  Thus I would heavily suggest you play creatures like Birchlore Ranges and Elvish Spirit Guide, as they accelerate your turn one (or avoid summoning sickness).  This also necessitates the use of Crop Rotation (Crop Rotation -> Cradle on turn 2 or replace a cradle with a cradle).

Another point of note: Do not rely heavly on crossroads.  There is no easier way to lose a game than being so reliant on a single spell that is disrupted or undrawn.

Also for suitable draw power I would include at least 8 cards, because you want to see 1 (or more) in your opening 2 turns (8-9 cards).  For card drawing I would suggest: Skullclamp, Glimpse of Nature, or Collective Unconsciousness.

Now for some questions of my own....

1. Has anyone tried a Wirewood Hivemaster, Genesis Chamber, Caller of the Claw massive creature build with a Pandemonium/Kyren Negotiations/Flame Fusillade kill?

2. What do you think of Food Chain as an elf combo enabler?

3. Can you give me a more descriptive explanation of why Sylvan Messenger didn't make the cut?



Thanks,

Phil
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2006, 10:56:34 am »

I used to play something very similar to this way back in the days of Recycle, before Skullclamp and Glimpse (the Dark Ages!).  Multani's Acolyte was an excellent addition to the deck at the time:
Name:              Multani's Acolyte
Set & Rarity:    Urza's Legacy common
Cost:                GG
Card Type:    Creature - Elf
P/T:    2/1
Rules Text (Oracle):    Echo GG
When Multani's Acolyte comes into play, draw a card.

Cheap elf-based card draw that can be fetched with the Poacher.  Should work very well with Skullclamp as well!
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2006, 02:08:42 pm »

Birchlore Rangers - Allows excess elves to provide mana and allows access to mana of other colors.

Genesis Chamber - More creatures, especially useful with Birchlore Rangers.  Benefit to opponent is negligible.

Actually you can only use elves for the rangers, so that's something against genesis chamber. Nevertheless playing multiple creatures and get dozens of tokens with chamber and hivemaster sounds cool.
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 04:45:01 pm »

This is a list I have been playing with for a long time. I have clocked my fasted win on turn 3. Though it helps when it has more power to it. As I built this mostly for fun. While it uses lots of the ideas that people have put up here it uses a few most people would not use. But it can be hated out prety easily as well.

Lands 14
14 Forest

Creatures 30
4 Priest of Titania
4 Skyshroud Elf
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
2 Wellwisher
4 Wirewood herald
4 Wirewood hivemaster
4 Fyndhorn Elves

Other 16
4 Skullclamp
4 Kaervek's Torch
4 Instill Energy
4 Staff of Domination

If this was to be made more type 1 the wellwishers would be the first to go. But t=given that this deck was build for fun and not much else take at you wish. Though I seem to have many people ask if its the elf deck (like they do if its my oath lol).

If anything this might give a few ideas. Instill Energy is just nuts haste and an untap cant beat that by much Wink.
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2006, 06:28:50 am »

I used to have a fun elfball list back in the day, it used survival and anger instead of the crossroads, taigas were in the build because the kill was fireball/torch.  I also ran channel for the random channelball win.

Mana
4 forest
2 taiga
4 cradle
2 wirewood lodge (infi mana w/argothian elder and a cradle, untaps priests)

Mana stuff
4 land grant
1 lotus
1 emerald
1 crop rotation
1 channel
1 fastbond

Mana guys
4 priest of titania
4 llanowar elves
4 ESG
2 birchlore ranger
1 elvish abberation (find a taiga for anger through survival)

Untap
4 wirewood symbiote
2 quirion ranger
2 argothian elder

Utility Doods
1 lyrist
1 scrapper
1 anger
1 genesis
4 multani's acolyte

Win, etc.
4 survival
4 Glimpse of Nature (was 2 recycle, +1 scrapper, +1 lyrist)
1 fireball
1 kearvek's torch

Everything in the deck works well together, it could probably use some updating/tweaking, but the core of the deck is solid...for an elf deck.

-=ADAM=-
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2006, 03:45:30 am »

Powerless but fast. A lil different win condition but is just as flashy, and maybe more.

Lands [10]
4 Tropical Island
4 Taiga
2 Windswept Heath

Creatures [34]
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Quirion Elves
4 Priest of Titania
4 Birchlore Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Bloodline Shaman
4 Selesnya Guildmage
2 Skyshroud Poacher

Spells [6]
2 Stroke of Genius
4 Land Grant

Enchantments [6]
4 Intruder Alarm
2 Lightning Greaves

Artifacts [4]
4 Skullclamp

Think MD Tendils when trying to go off [earliest possible is T3. T4-5 doable 80 of the time.]
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2006, 05:16:11 am »

I'd really look into biorhythm as a win.  It's a bit spendier, but I think, far more consistant.  Just a thought.
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