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Author Topic: [Report] Roanoke, 1st  (Read 7702 times)
Machinus
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« on: October 09, 2006, 12:55:28 am »

I just returned from the event and I am completely exhausted, but if I wait to write this I will forget everything. I have already forgotten many details.

Four legacy players from the Raleigh/Durham area, including myself, planned to attend these tournaments a few weeks in advance. About a week before the tournament, one of the players let me know that he was thinking about skipping it to hang out with his ex-girlfriend. We advised against it, but sure enough, a couple of days before, he backed out, so it was down to three. Then the day before the tournament, the third player was ill and could not attend, so it was just down to me and the driver, my friend Palmer.

We started out for Roanoke on Friday afternoon, but the highway gods were not with us, and missed signs and wrong turns turned into being completely lost in the middle of Virginia. After aborting the previous plan and regrouping, and with the help of a map and a gas station attendant, I plotted a new course, and we managed to arrive an hour or so behind schedule. We stopped at the awesome new SCG tournament center before heading to the hotel. I picked up some TS stuff, and a few more copies of a certain mirage common I will be talking about more later. Being pretty exhausted from the previous day plus driving, we put together our decks and went to bed.



Palmer woke up at some ridiculous time, and I could not sleep through the morning bustle for very long, and so I managed to be up two hours before the tournament started. We killed some time by heading the local library for some internet, and then went back to the tournament center. Most of the nova crew were there, with horror stories about the campground (there was a rainstorm on Friday night).

I wrote down two decklists, but I could only play one, and on day one I decided to go with the one I had tested more. I think the list deserves some explanation, but here it is first:

4 - all the goblin cards
3 SCG
4 STP
8 fetch
4 port
4 plateau
5 mountain

The two most important things about this deck are the 4 STPs and the 0 Wastelands. The goblins player who beat me in Richmond had a much better deck than I initially realized, and partly this was due to the only two wastelands. Wasteland is dead against the best combo in the format, and it is really weak in the mirror match. Additionally, threshold can deal with it pretty successfully, just by fetching basics, holding on to fetches, or even with Needle. Wasteland dilutes the precious red mana of the deck, and actually takes up one spell slot, which is another reason why I wanted to get rid of it. The STPs came into the deck just to clear the board more in the early game. This was another way to answer lackey, and just very efficient removal for blockers.

These ideas are great if you actually play against those decks, which is what I fully expected given my opponents in July (5 Solidarity, 5 Goblins, 3 Threshold, 4 Other). As you might have guessed, I mostly did not play against these decks. Here is what I remember from day one:

R1: P1rates

Not much to say here. Boomerang doesn't really hurt goblins.

R2: Threshold (excellent player, I never wrote down your name).

I was confident going into this match, but his draws were much better than mine and I think I played pretty poorly. Losing this match set me up with randomness for the rest of the day.

R3: 43 Land
Turn 1: Taiga, Manabond -> Tabernacle, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, Barbarian Ring...fuck

R4: Affinity
Awesome! I win one again.

R5: Suicide/R
This match went to three games but I lose to very early Negators in the last one.

R6: Enchantress

R7: EBA

In between losing to lands, I managed to watch some games, including the middle of a Solidarity mirror.



I finish in the 20s or something. At this point, I was pretty disappointed both in my performance and my deck, especially since NOVA owned the top 8, and I felt like I should not have lost to Threshold 2-0. We took a huge group to get dinner at some local place, so we could all hear Gearhart tell stories about how awesome he is (top 4). I tested with Anwar, the creator of Suicide/R, and did very poorly. Since I played in the losing bracket, I had no idea what the meta was for day one. The players who did well told me the environment was actually pretty typical. That night I contemplated switching decks. I tested that night against Threshold with my day one list, and got crushed, which made me want to switch even more. I went looking through my cards and realized the other deck I was thinking about playing was still in Raleigh - the only Legacy cards I didn't bring. I probably would have played Goblins anyway, but having the decision made for me helped me to focus.

Remember the other decklist I wrote down on day one?

The story of [my modifications to] this deck begins in July, when I lost to the mirror at D4D Richmond. Afterwards, I began to focus more on the mirror, because I had a very good record against Solidarity and Threshold at those tournaments (out of eight matches, I lost one, to Solidarity). However, my loss to Goblins seemed much more significant, due to the lopsidedness of the games and the possibly the stakes. Initially this led me to consider splashing white. The white splash has had a lot of success, but I have not done well with it, and after my losses day one, I decided not to play it again.

As good as it is, Legacy Goblins has always had some mana problems. It is heavily reliant on AEther Vial, and can be susceptible to land destruction, or even it's own Wastelands, since the good spells cost three, four and five mana each. This is most clearly visible in the mana curve of the deck, which has a huge hole at two. For anyone who has played aggro in any other format, having a hole here is obviously a big problem. This inconsistency is obscured by the power of the one-drops, and the other potential turn two plays. I had played through this problem, but it has always been an issue for me and I wanted to do something about it. I have been making lists of two-drops and reassessing them for a long time now, but nothing has been applicable enough to put into the deck.

The two-drop hole is obscured further by another issue. Almost every deck has developed ways to prevent turn one Lackey from ending the game. Cheap removal and cheap blockers are everywhere. I only triggered Lackey a handful of times this weekend.

At the same time, there was another problem. AEther Vial is a card that can determine the outcome of games - when active, it provides a huge advantage, and when stopped, can turn off an entire hand. Goblins runs its own AEther Vials, and Threshold runs Pithing Needles to stop it.

Now, it's definitely not new tech by any means, especially since it was widely publicized after GP Philadelphia, but using it as a threat instead of a toolbox answer is quite different. Goblin Tinkerer addresses both of these problems at the same time. I really wanted to play it on day one, even telling my hotel roommate as much, but experience is usually more important, so I went with white. On day two, I no longer had these reservations.

We picked up another guest at the tournament the day before - Calosso. I managed to get a little more sleep on Sunday morning. I was still disappointed with my losses day one, and I wasn't really feeling good about my chances. I finalized my sideboarding after registration, and just hoped for some good matchups in the early rounds. Here is what I played day two:

2 SGC
4 Ringleader
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Incinerator
4 Tinkerer
4 Piledriver
4 Fanatic
4 Lackey
4 Vial
4 Wasteland
4 Port
4 Foothills
4 Mire
6 Mountain

At last, the pairings went up, and I receive this gift:

Round 1: RGW Control, Kevin Binswanger

Definitely a matchup I was happy about. Game one goes very quickly as he spends all his turns cycling lands. Game two goes much longer. He gets out rift, slide, four wall of blossoms, heirarch, grunt, and lots of mana. I sneak in damage here and there, and eventually SGC for the final eight points.

Winning round one makes a huge difference for me, and I'm glad to be on the right track.

Round 2: Threshold

I lost to this deck and this player round two the previous day, so I was not excited. However, I manage to be aggressive, and I think I played much better. I traded piledrivers with his blockers and kept the pressure on. He can't stop the beats game one, and I move on to my sideboard. During either game one or two, a needle is down on something important, and then a second one comes down on a resolved Tinkerer, which I thought was awesome. Game two, an REB backs up my Lackey, which may have actually connected. I play very aggressively and win game two as well.
2-0

Round 3: RW Goblins
I think I take game one here, but the match goes quickly. My opponent opens with Lackey every game, and he draws too many cards with Ringleader. I take my first loss.
2-1

Round 4: TNT?
I am a little surprised by this deck, and lose game one to Triskelion recursion. In game two my opponent is not very sportsmanlike and calls the judge a couple of times on me. He is up a game and stalling, but I manage to find a win with a few minutes left in the round. Game three goes to time, but I figure out how to pull off enough damage in extra turns. Close match.
3-1

Round 5: Goblins
This is the winner from day one. Game one he is completely manascrewed, and he can't put together a defense. I think game two is well in his favor, but I get to go first in game three, and take advantage of every attack window. He clears my board, but I cast fanatic to do the last point.
4-1

Round 6: Goblins
I am paired with the only 12 who cannot ID. There is a complicated series of cut dependencies, and I can't focus on this issue while I am playing my match, which I have to do. I get the story beforehand, but do not receive critical information until I have already defeated my opponent this round. I would have preferred not to risk losing a game three, but I was not aware of the circumstances. With the help of Tinkerer on Vial, I knock this Goblins player out.

Since I was the only one who played it out, I make first seed.

Top8: RGB Survival - quicksilver
Game one I get a strong hand, and keep him off enough mana to stop my attack. In game two, he resolves double plague and beats with huge guys. Game three I focus on mana denial. I use port almost every turn, waste as soon as possible, and try not to let him untap with mana creatures. Matron beats for one for six turns while I keep him off enough mana to completely hate me out. Eventually I have enough lands to finish him off. It is a good thing too, since he had triple plague in his hand, along with either burning wish or pyroclasm.

Top4: Affinity
I am happy to be playing against Affinity. I liked playing this matchup before I added the Tinkerers, but obviously they help. He wins the roll and opens by dropping about five cards on the table. On turn two he swings for ~6 flying, and I can't do anything. Game two, I blow up some of his stuff, and attack every turn. He sacs his manabase to save a Ravager, which costs him when I pyrokinesis it away. Game three I have a great hand with lots of removal. He gets one plague down, but I play through it and scramble to put pressure on. He has used up his hand to reach a high affinity, and he is in topdeck mode almost from the beginning. I kill his Ravager with Tinkerer, and deal with the counters with Incinerator. He is forced to block with Orinthopter, and soon after I swing through for the win.

The other top 4 match was RW Goblins vs. Iggy Pop. When I was told Iggy Pop lost in two games, I didn't believe it at first, but in fact Calosso was in the finals with me. In keeping with D4D precedent (except my last top 2  Sad ) and with people's wishes to get started back home, we worked out a split.

Even after playing my new list, I'm still excited about the changes. Playing with two-drops just feels better, especially since they deal with important permanents. I had a great time at this tournament, and hanging out with all the people. Congrats to everyone who did well, (you too Calosso).
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 01:16:34 am »

Excellent report Machinus and well done!

I wish I could have been there. Sad
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2006, 01:50:28 am »

Congratulations! However, where was your angel stax???
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2006, 02:35:20 am »

A well written report. I appreciate that you explain the mental process that lead you to your winning build in such detail. I'd assume Tinkerer was very strong against the Affinity match?

Glad to see you doing well with a 1R 1/2 creature who sends artifacts to the graveyard.
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2006, 10:28:44 am »

Once again goblins proves it is the best deck in the format.  I'm naturally curious about the iggy deck day two, was it a traditional build or were there some noticable deviations from my list?
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 10:43:12 am »

Congratz!

What was your SB?
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2006, 11:22:52 am »

Once again goblins proves it is the best deck in the format.  I'm naturally curious about the iggy deck day two, was it a traditional build or were there some noticable deviations from my list?

I imagine that lists will be up soon, but just to let you know.  The only main difference was

-4 Leyline of the Void

+4 Xantid Swarm

in the main.  This is very similar to what Krieger and I have been working on in Northern Virginia where Solidarity is everywhere and playing Iggy in that environment is very tough. 

Great report Machinus and nice hanging out with you again. 
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2006, 07:39:04 pm »

What about Thick Skinned Goblin for the two drop? Pro:Red seems useful for the mirror, and if not, a green splash for Tin Street Hooligan MD and Krosan Grip SB seems solid, 2 power just seems so much better than 2 toughness for a Goblin. The white splash offers Goblin Legionaire, 241ing other Goblins, trading with Werebear and a shock to the dome seems good to me.
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 12:31:51 am »

I must say that when I realized the proximity of Roanoke to my current location and decided to attend D4D, I had no idea what I'd be running into there.  Discovering this Legacy community and the incredible depth of knowledge that's to be gained from these forums is going to make my next Legacy tournament a great deal more fun, all the moreso if even half of the posts are as well-written and insightful as this report.  My thanks, Machinus, for pointing me towards this resource.

Oh, and to set the record straight...I didn't drop turn one Lackey every game.  Very Happy  Pleasure meeting you and the rest, and I hope to see you again!

Welcome to TMD! - Bardo
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 12:37:36 am by Bardo » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 04:03:46 am »

What about Thick Skinned Goblin for the two drop? Pro:Red seems useful for the mirror, and if not, a green splash for Tin Street Hooligan MD and Krosan Grip SB seems solid, 2 power just seems so much better than 2 toughness for a Goblin. The white splash offers Goblin Legionaire, 241ing other Goblins, trading with Werebear and a shock to the dome seems good to me.

I think that Hooligan is far better as a two drop than Tinkerer because 2 power is really important as well as his artifact killing ability is far more efficient. You really aren't looking to pwn someones artifacts for the entire game. All you really want is tempo and Tin-Street gives you bunches. You don't need to kill every artifact land your opponent plays, just their Jitte or SoFI. You lose tempo with Tinkerer, tapping and paying mana to kill an artifact is soo freakin' slow. Besides this deck has enough Squires already; lets fill it out with a few more Grizzly Bears.

I'm not really sold on Krosan Grip at the moment. 3 mana is a lot and many times the Split Second ability won't matter at all.

The more I think about it, the better Goblin Legionnaire gets. What Machinus is saying about the hole in the 2CC is very true, and something that has plagued me. Land go on turn 2 sucks. When you don't get really good openings (Lackey, Vial) you really want to curve out, which the deck has a problem doing with 4 good two drops. I dealt with it by adding more two drops, namely Sparksmith and Tin-Street. which brings me back to Legionnaire. Playing a kickered Hooligan has never been a problem for me with 12 Green sources. Also, how many decks, other than Goblins itself, are running LD these days? Suicide variants? You beat them handily anyways. Legionnaire might make a White splash worth it. It's a super solid creature, and adds just that more reach to the deck, which it really likes. What arguements are there for against his inclusion?

Congratulations Machinus on your win!
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 08:39:53 am »

I considered Legionnaire seriously. The double colored cost is too prohibitive.

I think two toughness is much more valuable than two power for a utility creature. I really like Tinkerer in the deck right now.

[EDIT] Another reason why Legionnaire isn't as good is because the deck already has a lot of removal. Legionnaire doesn't answer turn 1 lackey on the draw, which is one reason why I tested StP. Tinkerer gives the deck the ability to answer multiple artifacts consistently, without disrupting the flow of the deck - in fact, Tinkerer smoothes out the play of the deck, since you have more guys early and it protects your Vials.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 08:55:15 am by Machinus » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 01:57:36 pm »


I think that Hooligan is far better as a two drop than Tinkerer because 2 power is really important as well as his artifact killing ability is far more efficient. All you really want is tempo and Tin-Street gives you bunches. You lose tempo with Tinkerer, tapping and paying mana to kill an artifact is soo freakin' slow.

I also think that Hooligan might be the better fit here. Jitte and SoFI are a huge problems, and Tinkerer can't take care of it (other than being in play before it gains counters). I was also a Tinkerer advocate, but Hooligan has proven its worth in testing.

Why did you choose Tinkerer over Hooligan?
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2006, 02:38:57 pm »

Krosan Grip is for decks that use Engineered Plague and counterspells, Hulk, GAT, EBA where Disenchant or Naturalize is never going to resolve through their permission.
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2006, 02:43:32 pm »

Krosan Grip doesn't beat down.  You have REBs to force through Disenchant if you need it, but I saw Chris's Affinity opponent play Engineered Explosives and die shortly after to Ringleaders and Piledrivers.
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2006, 04:37:56 pm »

Krosan Grip is like Disenchant with infinite REB backup. Also, in general, 1 card answer > 2+ card answer. I am not fond of siding out Goblins so I usually prefer compact answers. It would be nice if the answer card could beat down (i.e. Kami of Ancient Law) but you have plenty of beatdown already and it's simply more important that you don't auto lose to cards like Solitary Confinement with countermagic backup.
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2006, 11:41:51 pm »

Now that it's up, I can talk a little more about my day two list.

I mentioned in my report that I had been stressing about the mana curve of the deck for some time. Costing {1} {R} and having two toughness were really important. The cost matters due to the amount of colorless in the manabase, and obviously to generate maximum tempo in the early game off two lands, or the two-drop of vial, which I found myself wasting far too frequently before I finallly picked a card. Toughness matters far more than power in order to survive hate and be valuabe in combat.

Finally, with the prevalence of cheap artifacts in the format, I found a creature to smooth out the curve and provide valuable utility. In combination with his toughness, the ability is relevant in a significant number of matchups. The main cards that it deals with are Pithing Needle and AEther Vial (it can destroy multiples of either). However, it can be useful against other cards as well: Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Chalice of the Void, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice, and almost every card in Affinity or Stax.

Having control over my red sources was also a valuable strength of the deck. There are many decks with mana disruption in the format, and with only fourteen sources this deck really needs every red mana. Hate in enchantment form is therefore problematic if it comes into play, but the mana disruption this deck plays is strong enough to interfere with the actual drawing and casting of those cards.

If players have more questions about my list, feel free to participate in the discussion here.
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2006, 04:43:38 am »

Thanks for your explanations!


I've got a lot of questions because you have a very interesting build here:

1) Didn't you find the 1 power of Tinkerer to be lacking? I feel like I can't get enough pressure with 1 power Gobs and often have to overextend (which is bad against Pyroclasm).

2) What's your opinion about Sparksmith and Goblin Lookout? I have found Lookout to be very useful in racing situations. It's like a Pyromancer without the drawback and costing a lot less. Sparksmith provides reusable fattie-removal, which is valuable in aggro-matchups.

3) What's your boarding plan against the most popular decks? Your board is very similar to mine, with a big exception: I don't run REB because I found them to be lacking in power. I'd like to hear your experiences here.
Also, why no Goblin King, at least in the board? It helps against hate and creates an alpha-strike option against any deck packing red. It also might be useful to let your Tinkerers survive the killing of a 2-cost artifact (like Jitte, Ravager, Powder Keg).


Again, congratulations on the win and the build, which is very innovative!
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2006, 11:08:52 am »

1) What are you comparing it to? It's the best card that fits the strict design requirements.

2) Sparksmith is a card I considered, but it doesn't effectively deal with the main problems this deck struggles against - Nimble Mongoose, Silver Knight, or anything 4/4 or bigger, which requires a game state that can be difficult to set up. The life loss is also relevant in the majority of matchups.

3) The sideboard actually isn't very techy. There is hate for combo, thresh, and some for the mirror. I use REB all the time. King doesn't provide any advantages that I have needed in the mirror. Trading a Tinkerer for a Ravager or Jitte is perfectly fine. Those cards are powerful and I can always find another one if I have to.
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2006, 02:42:59 pm »

I was comparing it to Hooligan and to Piledriver, although that may seem unfair. This was just a minor point however, I can see the power of Tinkerer.

King I never used for the mirror, but rather as an alpha-strike enabler against decks like UGR Thresh, Rifter, Survival and RG Beats, basically any deck packing Red, barring Goblins. The power boost is also quite handy against Threshold to kill Mongoose with a 2 power goblin. King is also one of the few ways mono-red has against Plague.

Do you side in REB against Threshold? Assuming you also side in Crypt and maybe Pillar, what do you side out?
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2006, 01:36:16 pm »

@Machinus

Have you ever tested the deck with a mana base that consists of just Mountains? Something like:

14 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

Does the "thinning" effect warrant their inclusion in the mono-red build? I tested the fetchland mana base in my Ghetto Vintage Goblin deck and was not terribly impressed. My deck is the same as yours, but - 4 Tinkerer, + 4 Recruiter. I know that my 2cc drop is a little better Wink, but I playtested the deck for a while using the Recruiter as just a vanilla 1/1 with and without fetchlands and did not perceive a real difference.

I read a comment by Toad saying that the mono-colored decks should not be running fetchlands. If you go back to the gob-vantage days, none of the successful decks really used fetchlands (yes, I know about Recruiter and Belcher synergy). Any thoughts? When I tested with suppressed Recruiters, my Ringleaders seem to hit for about the same and losing life was annoying (plus I hate using multiple shuffle effects in casual games).

Are fetchlands necessary / advantegeous in a mono-red goblin deck?

By the way, congratulations on your performance.
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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 02:20:46 pm »

I'm amazed that debate exists on this topic. I was planning on writing up a short post on this topic because I thought that the important ideas were all in articles. Now that I am seeing that they are not, perhaps I should upgrade my project.

To answer your question, I am convinved of the necessity of fetchlands so no I never tested the deck without them.

Hopefully I can put together something soon about this, but before I do, I could use some reference material. What are the other comprehensive articles/posts that analyze this topic?
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 02:57:17 pm »

Quote from: Machinus
To answer your question, I am convinved of the necessity of fetchlands so no I never tested the deck without them.

FWIW.

Quote from: Garrett Johnson
Ultimately, then, I would argue that the data bears out the contention that playing fetch-lands for their thinning effects are a bad idea: Only a suicidally reckless aggro deck can afford 4 life for a card, and those decks can’t afford to wait 20+ turns for it.

One other note: I can’t argue with the people who tell us in articles that they’ve observed the thinning effect of fetch lands except to point out that thinning is an extremely difficult thing to see during a game. Few people count the number of lands they draw, and even if they did, their perceptions would be colored by what they’re trying to do during the game. A land draw’s a lot more palatable with a Deep Analysis and a Roar Of The Wurm in hand or graveyard than when you’ve got a Merfolk Looter and a Basking Rootwalla in hand. And anyone who tells you that they can simply tell they’re drawing fewer land has never heard of a standard deviation.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 03:00:38 pm by Bardo » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 04:26:51 pm »

Ah, I read that when it came out! Even so, I will be doing my own mathematics.

But without even taking a closer look at anything else he wrote - this IS a reckless aggro deck.
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2006, 08:14:48 pm »

I've found that my favorite use of a fetch is to shuffle after Ringleader puts two Vials (or whatever) on the bottom of your library.

I rarely test goblins vs. other aggro (I don't own goblins so it's all proxies and I only care about beating it), so I don't know how much the life loss really matters. I suppose it could matter. Against burn, probably, not that that's such a prominent matchup.
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Bongo
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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2006, 08:48:37 am »

I think the analysis of Garrett Johnson is pretty accurate and I would almost exclude Fetches, but there is one key element that justifies the inclusion of Fetches: Goblin Ringleader.

While I'm not very good at mathematics, the number of Goblin cards you reveal with Ringleader after some Fetches is significantly higher. Especially if there were multiple Fetches cracked and you cast multiple Ringleaders, you'll feel the thinning effect.
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Akuma
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2006, 04:56:37 pm »

Actually, I did not really think of it just like Bongo put it. The mathematics involving Ringleader triggers would probably justify running the fetchlands, even in a mono-colored deck. It seems like playing with Recruiter has made me forget this...

You mean, I won't always get to draw 4 off my Ringleader  Wink
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Machinus
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2006, 09:56:57 pm »

The merits of Ringleader are extraneous and in addition to the importance of fetchlands. I can surely include examination of such an interaction, but the value of fetchlands is intrinsic to their fetching properties. I'm not sure when I will be posting my analysis, but I have been working on the examples and explanations.
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Hightower86
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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2006, 08:28:53 am »

Thanks for an interesting read Machinus. I am currently tinkering with Goblins w/ green splash for the Tin Street Hooligans and SB Krosan Grips, but I'm not sure if I should just stay mono red for a more secure mana base.. Only thing really bothering me is that I won't have an answer for Engineered Plague (or other enchantments for that sake, like Worship / Solitary Confinement)

Regards
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Machinus
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2006, 02:45:42 pm »

Thanks for an interesting read Machinus. I am currently tinkering with Goblins w/ green splash for the Tin Street Hooligans and SB Krosan Grips, but I'm not sure if I should just stay mono red for a more secure mana base.. Only thing really bothering me is that I won't have an answer for Engineered Plague (or other enchantments for that sake, like Worship / Solitary Confinement)

Regards

I got your IRC messages but I was afk.

I think Tinkerer is much better than Hooligan for a few reasons:
1) Two toughness. This changes completely the dynamics of combat and fighting light creature removal.
2) Using Vial turns off the ability of Hooligan. This disrupts the early tempo development of the deck.
3) Mana cost. {1} {R} is so much better than {G} {R}.
4) Tinkerer can take out multiple artifacts if necessary (a minor advantage).

There are a few arguments the other way, but in sum Tinkerer is favored:
1) Immediate removal of the artifact if there is no Warchief in play.
2) Pithing Needle can't stop the ability (another minor advantage).

If I thought Hooligan was better, I would certainly be willing to destabilize my manabase to accomodate the advantages. Having secure access to {R} {R} is important, but there are other advantages that I would trade that for. It just so happens that better tempo development and mana stability both result from using Tinkerer.

See this thread for my thoughts on answers to Plague.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 02:48:37 pm by Machinus » Logged

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