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Author Topic: [New Deck: Welder goes fishing]  (Read 7721 times)
Guli
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2006, 02:58:46 pm »

We can say this deck wants to become some kinda lighter form of ToG that has welder and fish elements. The danger of mixing decks is that it wont perform any of the 3 decks decently anymore. However in this case i see potential.

Don't forget Ancient Grudge also disrupts manabase.
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andrewpate
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2006, 03:29:17 pm »

Your list looks fun to play, but have you ever researched the old 7/10 decks of the past. I also believe that there was a deck named cerebral assassin that had a similar draw engine to your deck.
You could also research some of the old Italian madness decks.

I admit, Cerebral Assassin was the first thing I thought of when I saw this deck.  I considered posting, but that's really taking the whole thing in a different direction.  That deck was really based on filling up the yard with Bazaar of Baghdad and then acting like a Reanimator deck.  It could even kill with Worldgorger Dragon if necessary.

The question you have to ask there, and with this deck also, is how it's better than the established decks that rely on Bazaar, namely Ubastax and Dragon.  Cerebral Assassin doesn't have a lot going over those decks, which I think is why it has mostly faded out.  It gets hosed by things like Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt just like Dragon does, only it can't win as quickly.  This deck would also have to convince me that it overcomes the vulnerabilities and splash damage of using known engine pieces toward a new strategy.

On this front, I would tend to agree with the assertion that you need to go to full artifact mana in order to facilitate your 1C drops.  This would also allow you to test Mana Leak and/or Rune Snare, which I agree are worth a look.  In general, you need, as you say, to pick a plan and go with it.  My suggestions at this point:

1.  Cut white.
2.  Fill out your Mox base.
3.  Add some artifact fat to the maindeck.  I'd suggest starting with 2 Triskelion, 1 Duplicant, and 1 Sundering Titan.

I think that some more testing after that will put you on a good track for some streamlining the deck.
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hitman
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2006, 05:52:11 pm »

Guli, have you considered Chain of Vapor?  It's good utility/combo with Wild Mongrel and pitches to Force of Will. 
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chrissss
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« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2006, 06:06:27 am »

One thing you have to give to the Mongrel, its one of the few (good) ceatures that can deal with Oath. May it be Akroma, Simic, razia ( razia is tough), the mongrel can kill and survive either. Heck, it can even block a DC with plenty of cards in hand... : )

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Yes,Tarmogoyf is probably better than Chameleon Colossus, but comparing it to Tarmogoyf is like comparing your girlfriend to Carmen Electra - one's versatile and reliable, the other's just big and cheap.(And you'd run both if you could get away with)
hitman
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« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2006, 11:59:34 am »

One thing you have to give to the Mongrel, its one of the few (good) ceatures that can deal with Oath. May it be Akroma, Simic, razia ( razia is tough), the mongrel can kill and survive either. Heck, it can even block a DC with plenty of cards in hand... : )



All those creatures have flying (except DSC).
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Acenought
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« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2006, 05:16:50 am »

One thing you have to give to the Mongrel, its one of the few (good) ceatures that can deal with Oath. May it be Akroma, Simic, razia ( razia is tough), the mongrel can kill and survive either. Heck, it can even block a DC with plenty of cards in hand... : )



All those creatures have flying (except DSC).
Obv Run Jump;)
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scutakicker
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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2006, 01:41:47 pm »

The use of Welder is interesting. I definitely like the idea of an offensive discard outlet (in Mongre/Tog) as opposed to the usual Bazaar. If it's mainly to run Ninja, I'd rather run Grim Lavamancer of Gorilla Shaman since those will be greater disruption for a larger number of decks. You really need to be cheating something into play--Trike/Titan/etc as did CA.

It seems like there's a few different ideas going here on the thread, maybe its worth trying to break some of the ideas apart so that we aren't trying to smash 3 different strategies into 60 cards.

Also--the main question I have is how are we using Welder as a weapon? What artifact are we not able to hardcast that will smash face/give card advantage/control the game/etc. If we're looking at a fish-style deck with Welder that seems to be the major question.
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Guli
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« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2006, 01:32:32 am »

We are all used to welder in a way that he has to do some tricks. In this deck he will do 3 'tricks'.

1.Duplicant (Aggro,Oath)
2.T. Crypt (Will,ichorid,Dragon)
3.Draw 7 with Jar

Welder will also have the ability to deal with Tinker/DC, wich is a good bonus because fish really needs to deal with that.
Welder will help against the stax/workshop kinda decks out there. Along with the artifact hate that matchup should be good.
Welder generates mana for you and can disrupt opponents mana.

Welder is a 1 drop that can attack like Stormscape Apprentice or Children.

Now with so many useful utilities i really think we need to open our eyes and start experimenting with the best 1 drop in Vintage.

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Thegreatgonzo
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« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2006, 04:22:22 am »

It's gonna be hard to find room for them, but what about rifstone portal? It turns bazaar into some kind of savannah, so that you don't lose a land drop anymore.

By the way, in my opinion, life from the loam is huge in this deck.

Chalice is cool, but it shuts down your own crypts, (and so does null rod). Welder could fix this problem, but you don't want to fight against yourself in a deck like this.
Good luck with your deck, I love mongrel, please make it tier one! Smile

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Guli
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« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2006, 05:07:52 am »

I am completely redesigning the deck anyway. Trying out different approaches will help to get more insight and find more little combos tweaks in game synergies.

Im trying to play without bazaar and squee. And i dropped TFK for Intuition and added AK. Chalice is no longer present im trying out 3 duplicant and 3 crypt.
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