U/b/r Fish, a new drain deck?

[thedonuthole]

To start off I live in kansas and do not have the funds (still in school) or opportunity to go to large magic vintage tournaments.  I have been doing all of my testing on MWS so take this with a grain of salt.

Mana (23)
3x Flooded strand
2x Polluted delta
3x underground sea
2x volcanic island
1x tolarian academy
1x island
3x Mishra's factory
5x Moxen
1x lotus
1x sol ring
1x mana crypt

Creatures (17)
4x Gorilla shaman
4x Dark confidant
4x Phyrexian negator
3x Ninja of the deep hour
2x Grim lavamancer

Draw/Drain dumps/Broken (6)
1x ancestral recall
1x timewalk
1x timetwister
1x fact or fiction
1x mind twist
1x vampiric tutor

Disruption (14)
2x Chalice of the void
1x Chain of vapor
3x Duress
4x Mana drain
4x Force of will

Sideboard (15)
1x echoing truth
1x chain of vapor
3x REB
4x Fire/ice
3x planar void
3x Rack and Ruin

      The timetwister I just added in a few days ago and have done limited playtesting with it. As far as the main deck Vapor it is extremely useful. Its good to 1. Remove brass man   2. Pop back confidents against DD (fire/ice) 3. good synergy with mind twist 4. only way to get rid of enchantments preboard. I tried to get the speed from gifts and apply it to fish so they can get early gamebreakers off ie. Big mind twist second or third turn FoF 2nd or 3rd turn or early negator. First turn I usually wanna drop a dude or disrupt, second i may keep open for drain and lay a bomb on third turn or may lay down negator.

[zeus-online]

Well...You should check out EBA, that deck is pretty much a drain/fish deck... newer lists play with confidant, meddling mages and negators, while old lists usually had exalted angel, mages and finkels.

/Zeus

[Tragedy]

OMG i think i just played you...

I had a turboland type deck

Game one was me getting dsc off time walk turn 2

game 2 was tabernacle then manlands i believe

Seriously that looks just like the deck i played.

And i also believe his name was urs

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-Jacob

[zulander]

I have a question, what are you usually using the drain mana for? And for the fact or fiction, I think I likey.

[BruiZar]

I wouldnt play lavamancer. Playing a first turn lavamancer, then attacking with it to exchange it for ninja, and then casting it again turn 3 to have it online on turn 4 is way too slow for vintage.

I dont see why you are playing red all together. It makes drain more useless because hitting UU is harder and actually doing anything with drain mana becomes harder if you need R to cast spells. (Only goes for RNR i guess)
I dont see why you are playing only 2 chalice of the voids, either 4 or 0.

Where is tinker DSC? You are playing with jewelry and broken blue spells. Going crypt tinker DSC with fow backup happens, andit steals games. Also i couldnt see any brainstorms in your list but still 5 fetch. Why this choice?

Wouldn't standstill be a very solid card in your deck? With a confidant out, you have cumulative card advantage until your opponent pops the standstill. Hitting with confidant and manlands should turn the clock to your favor.

Thats about all I have to say about your list. I like lists with twister, i'm not sure if it works in your list, but i still like it.

One more thing: Why negator? The meta is currently very fish heavy which means you'll sack lots of permanents and do little to no damage. I'd replace it for something less suicidal.


GoodlucK!

[wethepeople]

One more thing: Why negator? The meta is currently very fish heavy which means you'll sack lots of permanents and do little to no damage. I'd replace it for something less suicidal.

I have played many Fish variants, several of them using Gators, and I have found that he just doesnt work with so much Fish. Since you use Drains, and you see a lot of Aggro, why not try out Flametongue Kavu?

Where is tinker DSC? You are playing with jewelry and broken blue spells. Going crypt tinker DSC with fow backup happens, andit steals games. Also i couldnt see any brainstorms in your list but still 5 fetch. Why this choice?

I understand that Tinker is basically an "I win" card versus Fish, but after trying to play Tinker/DSC in Aggro for such a long time, I have found that the two dont really mix. With Confidants there is even a chance for being killed by DSC, and that has actually happened to me various times in the past. It may be just me who doesnt agree with Tinker in Fish, probably because I have had such bad experiences with it, even so, I dont recomend it.

I dont see why you are playing only 2 chalice of the voids, either 4 or 0.

Agreed. With Drain mana you can set Chalice at like anything, so it seems right for you to MD four. You have creatures at all CCs so it wouldnt be much of a loss to you, even if it were to be at 2. When I did run Negator in an old deck of mine, I would drop CotV-2 so the Fish player couldnt play almost anything, and Negator at CC-3 could get right by and swing for the win.

[Necropotenza]

Well, let's go to the basics.

If you want to be able to cast Mana Drain reliably you need to play at least 15 stable blue mana sources, so you'll need an extra 2 in your list. Haven't you had mana problems to cast Drains?

[GUnit]

Mind twist is nice with drain, but misdirection is used a lot now and you don't even have four duresses. Also, playing timetwister against some decks is a very good way to lose the game the following turn.

Proposed changes:

-1 mind twist
-1 timetwister

+1 duress
+1 chalice of the void

(or +2 Cotv if you'd rather)