[Report] Myriad Games: No split in the finals!

[ELD]

I took the trip up to Myriad on 11/11.  It was a great time as always.  I arrived a little early and made up my sideboard after taking a quick look to see who showed up.  I ran a pretty basic Gifts list.  Here's a quick report.

Round 1 Jim Demarsico - B/U/W Fish

Game 1 The game drags on quite a some time.  I keep in good position, constantly improving my hand.  At some point I hardcast Collosus and he Forces.  I Force back.  He casts Swords and I gain 11 life, which buys me a lot of time vs his clock.  I eventually kill with Tendrils. 

Game 2 The game drags on for quite a while with me in control the whole time.  He gets down a Null Rod.  Massacre kills a Mage and a Bob.  I counter some creatures, a Grunt and a Bob atleast.  He gets down a Meddling Mage on Tendrils.  A few turns later he casts a Voidmage with only U open to speed up the clock.  I gifts for recoup tendrils and some other goodness.  I build up a lethal storm with merchant scroll for chain of vapor, mox, chain of vapor my board and his null rod, replay moxen, recoup massacre, tendrils for 20. 

Round 2 Travis Laplante - Channel Workshop

I split with Travis in the finals of the last Myriad Mox tournament.  I was looking foward to playing him this time.

Game 1 He didn't get much going on and I went nuts with Tendrils. His deck didn't show any lock parts.  It may have been a Workshop combo deck. 

Game 2 He went beats with Welder and Metalworker a few turns.  His hand had to be garbage.  I played a ton of spells and Tendrils.  It was too bad his deck didn't preform better, as he didn't seem to have a chance during this match. 


Round 3 Crossman Wilkins - Gifts

Game 1 I Drop Libary and pass.  He kills me with Moxes, Repeal, YawgWill and some other good cards.  After the game I ask if he has been playing the deck long, as he plays quite slowly.  He says he has, so I ask him to not waste time on things that are totally useless like pausing a few seconds to look at each card he draws off brainstorm etc.  I didn't ask during the game because he clearly had it in the bag and I didn't want to come across like a jerk who was trying to rattle him.  He seemed totally fine with it and had no idea he was even slowplaying.  He asked me to inform him if he's doing that again.  I'm glad that went well as so often that kind of stuff can go sour in tournaments.  This is a perfect example of Myriad always drawing an exceptional crowd.  At so many other venues, that kind of conversation would have degenerated into a mess. 

Time for an detour************************************************

Writing the above passage made me remember something about this event.  I don't always realize how a conversations can effect people.  At the last tournament I was having a conversation with someone about what it means to play to win.  I believe it means playing with the cards that give me the best chance to win the tournament.  My words really offended a nearby listener, as they didn't see my point of view.  They felt it belittled their choices and their reasons for playing the game.  I found this out at this event and tried to clean up the mess.  I'm pretty sure I didn't succeed and they're still not thrilled with me, but I was discussing my personal beliefs.  That doesn't make them right or wrong, just the way that I feel about games.  I think it's important to respect the tons of reasons why people play Magic.  It takes a lot of people to make the Magic community as great as it is in New England.  All that said, anyone who's in my school of though about playing to win should be aware that it's pretty offensive to people who do not feel the same way.  Even if you're discussing it with someone who's on the same page as you, other players listening in can be hurt and offended by the discussion.  A tournament is often a melting pot of all sorts of players.  Alienating any of them is no kind of good and never my intention. 

***************************************************************

Game 2 I drop Academy, Mox, Mox, Tormod's Crypt.  I cast Gifts setting up for a turn 2 kill, and follow it up with Ancestral.  Very nice.  Turn 2 I combo off pretty easily. 

Game 3 He goes first and doesn't win on his turn.  Good sign for me!  I drop library.  On his turn he thirst into no artifact.  He comments on how bad that is.  On my next turn I win with Gifts and Demonic into YawgWill.  I had exactly enough mana and 10 spells for the lethal tendrils.  These were some very fast games.  At no point was mana drain online for either of us. 

Round 4 IDDan Perovich - Mono Blue Fish
The 4 undefeated players were able to draw in for sure, as they'd get paired against each other again the in round 5.  There were 8 people with 6 points at this point.  If no went to time, they could the winners would end up at 9 points, and get paired up against each other.  They could all draw in with 10 points for with no tiebreakers entering into the cut to top 8 for a change. 

Round 5 IDAndrew Fox "Everything Wins Again" - 5 Color Fish
The brackets worked as I figured and I end up the 3rd seed.  They do the best deck name competition before the top 8 begins.  I win a deck box for Boring: Magical Cards for Make Winning of Moxen.  I totally dropped the ball by not making it "Glorious Moxen"  I come in second behind "Cookie Monster"  I will have my chance to avenge this loss later. 

Top 8 Rob Moreau - Control Slaver
Game 1 He wins the roll and Tinkers for a Memory Jar on turn 2 and passes.  My turn two I start to go for a lethal Tendrils.  I cast YawgWill and he's forced to crack Jar to find a force.  I have UU floating and drain the force.  I go to my second mainphase and it's over. 

Game 2 is lasts a bit longer.  I eventually combo out when I know he's out of counters.  I Rebuild and cast Moxen and some small stuff for a lethal Tendrils. 

At this point I try and watch the epic struggle between Bomberman and I'm not sure what.  I'm not sure what it was because I was told I was not allowed to watch other top 8 matches.  I was less than impressed with this for several reasons. 

1  By only stopping top 8 participants from watching, it sets up a situation where friends will scout for each other.  I believe that creates an uneven playing field which rewards things unrelated to the game.  If someone finishes their match early, or can ID and go scout, at least it's related to the fact that they won.  If two people equally skilled show at a tournament, the one who brought a friend should not have an automatic leg up on the one who came alone.   

2 I could have just scouted earlier if I had been aware of this.  I had been doing basically nothing for the past 2 rounds, so scouting would have been better than goofing around.  Hell, I was seated right next to them, I could have just been casually watching their match during my match. 

3 The people in the top 8 are playing the best Magic on that day.  I enjoy watching a good game as much as I enjoy playing a good game.  I feel I missed out on watching a good match as it lasted over an hour between two good players. 

4 Aside from all that, let's say I had brought one of my friends who I had been helping learn the game.  If they made Top 8, good luck stopping me from watching the match.  I'd be proud of them for making it that far and I'd want to be able to discuss all their decisions with them after the tournament. 

I had some serious time before the start of the next match. 

Top 4 Oliver Beaumont, "The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere" - Salvagers
Game 1 I scoop to a Yawgwill. 

Game 2 I drag the game out on the back of a Libary of Alexandria.  He drops 2 Tormod's Crypts and Ancestral which I do not Force to keep on my Library.  He Tinkers a crypt away and I win the counter war.  I Mind Twist him with the mana from a Drain.  I hit some sick cards including Will.  I Recoup a Time Walk to try and get him to crack the Crypt.  I counter relevant things and keep drawing extra cards every turn off Library.  I Recoup targeting Demonic and he finally cracks the crypt.  I Gifts some good cards and I'm able to win with Tendrils. 

Game 3 He goes Boseiju, Mox pass.  I go turn 1 Gifts, and then kill him with tons of mana, Demonic for Yawgwill, Yawgwill, replay a mana from the yard and Demonic for Tendrils.  Turn 1 wins when they matter.  I like. 

Finals Jeremiah Rudolph, "Cookie Monster" - Dread Returns Ichorid
I offer a split and the numbers make it to discussion.  He says 2 years ago I had beaten him the finals of a tournament for a bazaar.  He has not forgotten and he's been plotting his revenge ever since.  He didn't come for a split, he came for my soul. 

Game 1 He beats me as I'm unclear in my decisions.  Turn 1 I was playing like I wanted to Tinker for the win.  I Forced a Vampiric Tutor to keep him off Bazaar and he ripped one of the top anyways.   I had to change gears into the Tendrils kill and was unable to do that.  This was not good and I lose to a huge speedy Sultured Ghoul. 

Game 2 My opening hand is nuts, with ancestral and other goodness.  On his turn he does his best to disrupt me.  Unmask takes Vampiric Tutor, Cabal therapy snags YawgWill.  I Mystical for Tinker. Collosus takes down his first game of the day.  I had to lava dart some x/1's during his upkeep to prevent a lethal dread returns. 

Game 3 I mull away a hand that autoloses to chalice.  The game begins with Leyline of the Void in play.  Mox, Lotus Petal, Tormod'sx2, Fetch, Gifts wasn't doing it for me.  My new hand has lots of mana.  He Unmasks my vamp.  I'm left with force, lotus, mox, mox, land.  He bazaars away 2 ghouls and a non dredge card.  On my turn I draw merchant scroll.  I merchant scroll for mystical.  During his turn I mystical for tinker.  I untap, tinker out the big guy and swing twice.  The lack of dredge in his bin made racing me impossible at that point.  I win a Mox Emerald and manage to keep my soul for now. 

Props
Everyone who shows up to make New England the best place for Type 1 in the world. 
Myriad for running another great tournament. 
My opponents for being class acts.
My deck for giving me turn 1 wins when it matters. 

Slops
The ruling that top 8 participants cannot watch other top 8 matches when they're finished. 
Myself for not having everyones name that I played.  Please PM me so I can get all the names in there. 

[rvs]

Nice reports, congrats on the Mox.

Why could you not watch the other T8 matches? You were not allowed to get any hints or whatever? Why not just hand out decklists ^^

[zeus-online]

Could we get a decklist? i noticed that you cast a mind twist, so i figured you might have some special build or something

If you don't want it public, could you PM it to me?

/Zeus

[Myriad Games]

Congratulations again, Eric!

I've sent you a list of all your opponents so that you can update the report.

Thanks to everyone who attended this latest tournament. Our complete tournament report with Top 8 Deck Lists will be posted as soon as it's all typed up.

We'll look forward to seeing everyone again at the December 2nd tournament in East Wareham and again at our next tournament here on December 9th.

[ELD]

Nice reports, congrats on the Mox.

Thank you. 

Why could you not watch the other T8 matches? You were not allowed to get any hints or whatever? Why not just hand out decklists ^^

This was the judges opinion about how tournaments should be run.  I strongly disagree with this policy and made it very clear to him at the time.  The judge reads these boards, so if enough people comment, it is possible he will see the other side of the issue.  That said, he did do a fine job running the event otherwise.  It will certainly not prevent me from going to Myriad Games Mox Tournaments in the future.  Myriad really has the formula for running successful, fun events with great prizes.  It doesn't look like there are any events in New England until mine on December 2nd.  I hope to see a ton of familiar faces there. 

[LouGodKingofDustBunnys]

Congrats ELD on your win.

I can understand why Jeremiah Rudolph wanted your soul... at that very same tourney at Hammer's comics, you beat me in the semi's...and then i had to stand around and watch you (with CS) and Jeremiah (with EBA) duke it out, with you winning due to extremely tight play and a HUGE yawg will. I remember that day vividly because it was my first time back in competitive play in 7 years...I still want my revenge for that (but only a little )

And about the not watching the top 8 matches...I'm not sure about the floor rules for that, and I'm not going to waste my time looking it up. That being said, i have to agree with you, for two reasons. 1) In Vintage, we are a tightly knit group and just about any one could and/or would scout just about anyone... preventing the actual watching of the match is damn pointless, and 2) this isn't standard...hell this isn't even DCI sanctioned...we are all here just for fun for the most part, why bother stressing out?

To the Judge of the tourney
  I we know each other well, and maybe in a standard tourney it's right to do that, but in this format, I honestly don't think anyone cares if someone else watches....if the players of the top 8 match didn't want anyone watching, that's fine and dandy, but otherwise...let us enjoy or fellow players games.

No offence at all was intended by that last paragraph, and yes it may have been something I might have handled in Pm or IRL, but I felt that his open showing of support would emphasize my position on this for everyone involved...not just you, or Dan or even ELD, but to everyone who read's my little post here.

[nataz]

ELD,
Excellent job, and a very nice post/report.

On the top 8 ruling:

I was also surprised at the ruling on watching top 8 games. I figured since D was the head judge, and I respect him both as a person and in his role as head judge, there was no point in commenting on it during the event.

However, in retrospect, now that the event is over, I would like to say that I also thought that it was an un-needed restriction for reasons brought up earlier. You are allowed to scout earlier, if they had known that was going to be the rule they would have scouted earlier (they each had 2 ID's), and I feel that watching top 8 matches are far more interesting then just sitting around doing nothing for hours during un-timed matches.

I would have brought it up over dinner if I had remembered, but I didn't, oh well. and of course, I agree with this,

That said, he did do a fine job running the event otherwise.

. D is a great judge, and hopefully will only get better in the future. It's nice to have a judge that is familiar with running vintage events (even if I think people are still taking to long on their gifts piles!)

[ELD]

Thanks for the post and support of my view.  I hope some other people will voice their discontent with the "no watching top 8" policy.  If you and your friend both make top 8, not being able to watch your friend play is asinine. 

Could we get a decklist? i noticed that you cast a mind twist, so i figured you might have some special build or something Wink

The MindTwist is out of the Sideboard.  I find it's a gamebreaking card vs decks that can win given small windows.  It also deals with hands that have multiple answers to a win condition.  The list is pretty much just Meandeck Gifts. 

[Scoops666]

I apologize for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to consider all the options before being able to respond. And my conclusion is as follows:

I owe not only Eric, but the entire Vintage community an apology for that ruling.

What I did was brought in too much philosophy from the DCI into a Vintage event. It's a grass route format, and I sometimes lose sight of that. While it is important to implement a great deal of DCI policy into these events, there are also times when digression becomes necessary. I've used this as a device to help teach me of when one of those times for digression becomes necessary.

So, again, I wish to offer my humble apologies for what I consider a great error in judgement.

[nataz]

I just wanted to point out that there are so many good things that happen at myriad, and I don't want people to read this and think otherwise. The players and staff at Myriad make for an excellent event, and I feel spoiled every time I go somewhere else and find it lacking.

Derek, you are an excellent judge, and I do believe you will only get better with time. Don't beat yourself up too much over this.

At this point I try and watch the epic struggle between Bomberman and I'm not sure what.

I think it was Fox with 5 color fish. Oh man, wait till that list comes out. And people though Myriad was odd before. Go foxy!

@ ELD,
Since you are basically playing MDgifts, I take it your aren't impressed with TFK in the deck? Any particualr reason why you've chosen to go without?

[ELD]

I just wanted to point out that there are so many good things that happen at myriad, and I don't want people to read this and think otherwise. The players and staff at Myriad make for an excellent event, and I feel spoiled every time I go somewhere else and find it lacking.

I could not agree more.

Since you are basically playing MDgifts, I take it your aren't impressed with TFK in the deck? Any particualr reason why you've chosen to go without?

I think Control Slaver is the best place for Thirst for Knowledge.  Gifts doesn't need the card at all.  I think 4x Merchant Scroll for Ancestral is a better engine than 4x Thirst as Gifts.  Gifts has no way of taking advantage of Thirst's drawback.  In the finals, Merchant Scroll for Mystical Tutor on turn 1 allowed for a turn 2 Tinker which was able to seal the deal.  A Thirst in that situation would have been an overcosted Brainstorm. 

[Myriad Games]

Thank you everyone for your feedback regarding the Top 8 ruling. Derek ran this by me before making the ruling. I didn't give it a lot of thought at the time because I was in the midst of a T-Shirt Challenge game and, as I said before, Derek was the head judge and ultimate rules authority for this event. He did a fine job of judging and helping to ensure a smoothly run event. We'd all like to thank him again for his hard work and dedication to ensuring a fair tournament.

Every decision we make here at Myriad Games regarding event structure is made with professionalism in mind. We therefore decided to stick as closely to DCI policy as possible to help prevent an unfair advantage. The discussion here has indicated that most people feel that this advantage could be gained in other ways and/or is less important than the enjoyment of watching quality Magic matches. Future Vintage events here at Myriad Games will allow for players to watch matches as long as they do not interrupt or interfere and as long as the players do not mind them watching. It is common courtesy to ask both players if they mind if you watch a match before sidling up to the table.  If any player requests that another player not watch their match, we will enforce that request.

Furthermore, I'm intrigued by the idea of having Top 8 decklists available to be viewed by all the participants in that Top 8. Granted, these events are much smaller than most events where that practice is usually followed, but if people think it would increase the enjoyment of the event, we'd be willing to give it a try.

Sound off and let us know what you think. We always look forward to improving our future events!

Also, the tournament report from this event has been posted here including the crazy new deck list entitled "Everything Wins Again" by Andrew Fox.

[nataz]

Furthermore, I'm intrigued by the idea of having Top 8 decklists available to be viewed by all the participants in that Top 8.

That would be pretty cool.

[LouGodKingofDustBunnys]

Thank you to both Dan and Derek for their posts on this subject.

As Derek said, our format is a grassroots format, and we should keep that in mind in regards to some of the stricter and sillier rules... like the one's that say i can't bring a stripper with me to a top 8 match and have her give my opponent a lapdance... to some that maybe attemping to gain undue advantage, to other its just showing care for my fellow humans.

Ok back to the main point... this issue seems to be resolved to everyone's liking now, so we can put it into the past and move on. About the passing around of top 8 lists, i have supported it in the past and i still do. Most of the time most of the top 8 particapents know what their opponents are playing anywho, so what's the harm?

[Nastaboi]

I have always thought that allowing T8 to see each other's decklists would be "more" DCI than declining them scouting. Showing decklists to all puts everybody in same position. Here, judges usually just tell players to have a peek on other's deck when being too lazy to hang out the lists, something to consider.

[Harlequin]

The other added bonus of is to further discourage cheating and/or Promote accurate deck registration and more vigilant efforts to De-side.   If you know your opponents' maindecks then you can spot cards that may be out of place (be it intentional or unintentional).

This is not to say that I think TO's* don't do a great job of deck-checking; nor is it saying that I think top 8 players are cheaters... but shareing decklists obviously can't hurt in these two reguards.

* - on a side note, One of the reasons I enjoy playing at Myriad So much is thier attention to detail which shines through in their --> many deck checks.  I don't think I've ever gone to Myriad and NOT gotten deck-checked.  Its a great practice for TO's to get into.  It has made me a better player because now (no matter what venu I'm at) I take extra time to be 100% my deck and sideboard are restored between rounds.

[Myriad Games]

It's likely that we'll try the display of all Top 8 Deck Lists at our next Vintage on December 9th.

It seems very professional to me. It will also give the players that had to play into the Top 8 a brief break from player to collect themselves before heading into the quarterfinals.

[TopSecret]

     Great tournament report, ELD, and Congratulations on your finish!
Also, thank you for bringing up issues of discussion in a respectful manner.
It is always nice to hear other peoples' opinions and views on such subjects.

     Long Live Pro-Magic!

TopSecret

[Myriad Games]

After more thought, here's of how the Top 8 deck disclosures will go at our next event. We will have a list of each player's name and their deck type, but not disclose a full deck list. This will allow people to know generally what their opponents are playing, but keep the surprise factor of unusual card choices and/or sideboard options. As an example, if we had done this at our last event, the summary would have looked as follows, with players in order after the Swiss rounds.

Craig Dupre - The Mountains Win Again
Andrew Fox - 5 Color Fish
Eric Dupuis - Gifts
Dan Perovich - Mono Blue Fish
Dan Yarrington - The Mountains Win Again
Rob Moreau - Control Slaver
Oliver Beaumont - Salvagers
Jeremiah Rudolph - Dread Returns Ichorid

We will have a 5-10 minute break between the end of the Swiss rounds and the beginning of the Top 8 to allow players to prepare themselves. This type of summary should be easy to generate in a reasonable amount of time before the Top 8 without players having to decipher scribbled lists or have them re-typed.