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Author Topic: Weird situation in draft  (Read 1758 times)
Keno
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« on: November 17, 2006, 04:49:45 am »

Last night I was drafting at my local store. I drafted an B/R deck and at some point I ended up playing a friend in the finals. In the first game his W/R deck gave him some early drops and I was just waiting for my Sulferous Blast to gain me some advantage. After a couple of turns I cleared the board and then on my turn I dropped Kaervek the Merciless. My friend sighted, thought for a while and finally decided just to cast Temporal Isolation on the legend. This time I sighted and simply said "Ok", forgetting to shoot him for 2. This is where things went wrong. Even though I forgot to shoot him, my friend still took 2 of his life total (he was keeping track using magic cards) without saying anything. On my turn I played Plague Sliver. On his turn he played a second Temporal Isolation. Because my Kaervek didn't do anything I didn't bother with his ability and just said Ok again. My friend again took 2, again without saying anything or without me saying I shot him with Kaervek. On my turn he pointed to the Sliver saying I should take 1 damage but I explained to him that Temporal Isolation prevents all damage, even the upkeep damage. I play a 4/2. At the end of turn he Sudden Shocks it, I turn an mountain into a swamp and AGAIN he takes two without saying anything and without me targeting him. On his turn he sights, says he can't possibly beat Kaervek and scoops.

After he scoops I ask him what the hell he was talking about.

Me: "You had the perfect awnser in Temporal Isolation, Kearvek did shit!"
Him: "Dude quite playing dumb. Kearvek would have killed any guy that I would have played or could have just shot me dead"
Me: "How? He had a Temporal Isolation on him. That card prefents ALL damage. Kearvek was useless."
Him: "WTF! Then why did I take 2 damage every time I played a card?"
Me: "You took damage from Kaervek? I never said a word about shooting you for 2 and you never said something like "oke, take 2". As far as I know your still at 17. "
Him: "Bah, this can't be right. I just gave you a free game!"

My question is: if one of us would have called a judge over (out store doesn't have a actual judge) what would the ruling on this situation be?
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LotusHead
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2006, 05:04:38 am »



My question is: if one of us would have called a judge over (out store doesn't have a actual judge) what would the ruling on this situation be?

Quote
Temporal Isolation
Casting cost: 1w
Oracle text: Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant.)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has shadow. (It can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.)
Prevent all damage that would be dealt by enchanted creature. 


If this was Friday Night Magic (I am assuming it was, even if it wasn't friday.  Wait, maybe it was! Damn Global TMD!), then a "Judge" would clarify how things go (Kavarek does crap, T.Isolation pwns it) and the night would move on.  Only because FNM is like REL 1/2 (noobs welcome, etc...)

Using magic cards as life counters is kinda lame.  Don't take offense. I use a fist sized 20 Sided Dice. I'm no pro. but any life total changes should be fairly obvious as to why it happend. (Me, I pick up my huge ass die and turn it to the next number, and slam it on the table.  Or just turn it without slamming it.  Either way, everyone knows something happend.)

Rules failures seem less important than "easily trackable and clear Life Total Tracking" and are >>> technical rules knowledge of Kavarek and Temporal Isolation.
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Apollyon
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2006, 11:01:58 am »

Basically, from a judge's perspective, you are being very shady.

You know that Temporal Isolation shuts off Kaervek and Plague Sliver, but you notice your opponent reducing his life total and don't clarify. At that point, it looks like you are intentionally taking advantage of the gamestate being in error. And you are not only failing to get it back on track, you repeatedly allow him to change the gamestate (illegally, no less) in your favor.

That appears to be cheating to a judge. And whether or not you wanted to, when things appear to be cheating, Bad Things Happen.

I'm not talking about the concession. That's fine. Players can concede at any time for any reason. If a player concedes because they think that your life total is 10 and they have 9 power of damage in hand/board + you have lethal next turn on board, judges can't undo that concession if the player doesn't check the gamestate with his opponent. (In fact, judges can't undo it at all. If the player asks if their opponent is at 10 and they give an affirmative response, then they are intentionally lying about the gamestate in order to gain an advantage. That's cheating.)

The moral of the story: step in and ask why they took the damage and/or call a judge. That way, it doesn't look like you are cheating. Sure, your opponent put himself in an illegal gamestate in your favor. But his being at the correct amount of life is much better than having a judge say "You know, that sounds sketchy, I'm going to have to figure out if he's cheating."

Because as soon as a judge says that, it tends to not result in good things.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2006, 11:06:10 am by Apollyon » Logged
Toad
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2006, 11:15:33 am »

If you realized that your opponent was taking damage from Kaervek when he shouldnt, then you were cheating by letting your opponent mis recording his life totals without correcting him. Both players are responsible for maintaining the game state. If your opponent scoops because he is at 1 life with your Isolated Kaerverk out and no creatures on his side of the board, then fine. You did nothing wrong here. If your opponent takes damage when casting a spell with Isolated Kaervek out, you are required to correct him. Even if the life totals are correctly tracked on your own paper.
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wethepeople
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2006, 10:06:07 pm »

The thing here that seems bad to me is the fact that you chose not to mention that he was doing something incorrectly. This is considered cheating, and I myself am not too fond of cheating, especially when it is versus a friend of yours.

If the person had been a fairly good friend of mine, I would have actually taken the loss. If it were to be in the finals and it was for some sort of prize, I would have at least chosen to split it with him.

Now I understand that this has nothing at all to do with the proper rulings, but it is what I personally would do if I were to be in a situation like that.
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Keno
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2006, 03:52:15 am »

I understand what's being said so far, but the thing is that I didn't know he was taking damage until after he had scooped. He never said he took damage and I didn't actually see him take damage, I never saw him alter his life total. The reason I didn't see it was because I focused my attention to the board because from my perspective I was losing and I needed a way out. I wasn't trying to cheat or anything.
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diopter
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2006, 11:38:12 am »

Me: "You had the perfect awnser in Temporal Isolation, Kearvek did shit!"
Him: "Dude quite playing dumb. Kearvek would have killed any guy that I would have played or could have just shot me dead"
Me: "How? He had a Temporal Isolation on him. That card prefents ALL damage. Kearvek was useless."
Him: "WTF! Then why did I take 2 damage every time I played a card?"
Me: "You took damage from Kaervek? I never said a word about shooting you for 2 and you never said something like "oke, take 2". As far as I know your still at 17. "
Him: "Bah, this can't be right. I just gave you a free game!"

Just to point out to people who wish to post further. The life loss went unnoticed by Keno.
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