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Author Topic: Silver bullets (creatures)  (Read 3070 times)
agesga
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« on: November 18, 2006, 06:53:27 am »

I'm not thinking about any particular deck in vintage, but I wanted to know your opinion
about which creatures could be included on the sideborad that are specially interesting due
to its abilities. "No problem" with casting cost or colors. The objective is to bring them to play
with living wish or similar spells. No specific meta.
One may propose the traditionals:
gorilla shaman
darksteel colosus
meddling mage
eternal witness
withered wretch
...
I would like to known your suggestions (not only "traditional" creatures).
Let's say that if you had to choose up to 7 creatures, which ones would you choose?
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Demonic Attorney
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2006, 09:29:44 am »

More details as to exactly what you're trying to do would help people to give you better responses.  However, in response to your question as written, here are 7 creatures I think have game-affecting abilities that could serve as useful sideboarding tools, in addition to those you mentioned:

1.  Xantid Swarm
2.  Kataki, War's Wage
3.  Magus of the Unseen
4.  Waterfront Bouncer
5.  Jushi Apprentice
6.  True Believer
7.  Jotun Grunt

I will add that a utility sideboard built around Living Wish and implemented as a reactionary strategy to opposing threats will be extremely slow.  Often, SB creatures' effects take a turn or two to affect the game significantly, whether due to summoning sickness, due to needing additional mana to fuel the effect, or because the effect generated needs to accumulate for a while in order to have a major impact.  So, you're left with one turn spent casting Living Wish, possibly another turn invested in playing the creature you got with Living Wish, and then waiting a third or even a forth turn for the effect generated to matter.  After that long, whatever threat you were trying to react to has probably done its damage.

Of course, all that is assuming that what you're trying to do with Living Wish is build a reactionary toolbox strategy.  However, it really seemed from your post that that's what you're planning to do.
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BruiZar
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2006, 11:41:20 am »

Could you clarify your usage of Jushi Apprentice? I am unfamiliar with him as a silver bullet.
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Glix
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2006, 12:10:58 pm »

Dark Confidant, usually, is going to be far superior to Apprentice in that slot.  It draws, but its faster, can't be needled, and its a better beater.

Fire Imp would be a good adition.

Colossus seems weak as a "silver bullet".  It's only ever good in your deck, not in your hand.

Dups is a good creature to bring in, esspecially if you have shops and/or welders.

If you have maindeck silver bullets, Imperial Recruiter is a nice card to have, essentially pulling up any maindeck bullets you may have, and most of the ones on the list so far.

Trike is good w/ shops/welder.

Kinda hard to do this without some constraints.
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agesga
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2006, 12:23:23 pm »

More details as to exactly what you're trying to do would help people to give you better responses. 

Actually i'm working with oath. But i didn't wanted to mention it because the suggestions could be like:
Tydespout tyrant
akroma
or the artifact that can convert to/steal artifacts.
It's far better for me to "rediscover" cards like magus of the unseen, or other ones. Of course with living wish it will turn into
a slower strategy, and perhaps research/development could fit better in Oath.
Anyway thanks for your proposal. (Of course i wanted a reactionary strategy).
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agesga
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2006, 12:29:48 pm »

Dark Confidant, usually, is going to be far superior to Apprentice in that slot.  It draws, but its faster, can't be needled, and its a better beater.

Fire Imp would be a good adition.

Colossus seems weak as a "silver bullet".  It's only ever good in your deck, not in your hand.

Dups is a good creature to bring in, esspecially if you have shops and/or welders.

If you have maindeck silver bullets, Imperial Recruiter is a nice card to have, essentially pulling up any maindeck bullets you may have, and most of the ones on the list so far.

Trike is good w/ shops/welder.

Kinda hard to do this without some constraints.

Which cards are dups and trike?
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2006, 01:17:45 pm »

Which cards are dups and trike?

Duplicant and Triskileion.  I am a BIG advocator of dark confidant.  Also other creatures that should be on your list:
1.  Juggernaut
2.  Razormane masticore
3.  Sundering titan
4.  Goblin Welder
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wethepeople
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2006, 07:05:45 pm »

My list would go:

Goblin Welder - Any artifact based deck. Also can be used to get rid of DSC, Trike, etc.

True Believer- Combo of course.

Old Man of the Sea- Annoyed by opposing 2/x's on the board? Steal them via Old Man!

Meddling Mage- May be a little too slow when played from the board, but it doesnt seem like a bad choice.

Stern Proctor- Good solution to several cards however it serves the same purpose as Magus of the Unseen, which also seems to me like a good choice.

Jotun Grunt- Seems good to just beat away for the win.

Flametongue Kavu/Fire Imp- Both seem like good choices to improve the Fish matchup.

Xantid Swarm- This seems to me like a card that depends on your deck really. If you are playing some sort of Combo or need to rely on a key card, it looks like a good choice, otherwise it seems pointless.

Withered Wretch- Seems like a really strong card for several situations.

Children of Korlis- I dont know about this card quite yet, but it doesnt seem like a bad solution to Tendrils.

I will think of additional cards later, right now I cannot think of much though. I really think you should throw a land or two in there also because Living Wish can take them as well such as Strip Mine, Maze of Ith, and City of Brass to fix your mana base.

I however dont feel that it is right to fill your entire sideboard with creatures because if I am not mistaken, they will take up all the slots for the hate/removal needed to improve other matchups. The idea of your deck doesnt seem bad though. I really look forward learning more about the deck.
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006, 05:15:51 pm »

I'd also add:

Erayo - Decks that need to play spells to win

Dimir Cutpurse - Matchups where card advantage matters

Jagged Poppet - Matchups where disruption is more important than card advantage

Granger Guildmage/Shadow Guildmage/Kris Mage/Grim Lavamancer/Icatian Javalineer - Matchups where your opponent will be relying on X/1 creatures staying in play.

Mishra's Factory (he mentioned Living Wish) - produces mana, can't be countered, blocks Fishy threats.
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Any interest in putting together/maintaining a Github Git project that hosts proven decks of all major archetypes and documents their changes over time?
netherspirit
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2006, 01:25:29 pm »

In no particular order:

Goblin Welder - IMO the best creature in Vintage, he's good in any deck running red, whether he brings broken artifacts in or blows them out.

Xantid Swarm - Xantid Swarm > Permission. Wink Helps protect your key cards from permission spells, brilliant. And even better it's a GREEN FLYER with cool art! Very Happy

Platinum Angel - Undisrupted this is gg, obviously you need to keep her in, but still worth it.

Karn, Silver Golem - Gorilla Shaman plus a whole load of damage.

Dark Confidant - Best creature ever when it comes to drawing.

Nether Spirit - Solid defense, but totally unused. Sad

Triskelion - Die critters DIE!!!!!!!!! A very good form of spot removal and finishing damage.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2006, 01:28:26 pm by netherspirit » Logged

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wethepeople
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2006, 01:42:08 pm »

Quote
Nether Spirit - Solid defense, but totally unused.

Nice idea, but when I read this Fog Bank instantly crossed my mind. That seems like a great card to hold back opposing creatures.
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Seraphim3577
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 03:18:17 pm »

You could always go the Eternal Witness route Wink


Other notables are Sundering Titan, Blazing Archon, and Magma Giant.

Simic Sky Swallower is very good in the right situations, too.


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