semi-powered/budget storm deck, help.

[vampirehikaru]

hey ya'all. it's my first post on TMD. =D

alright, first and foremost i don't play competitively, and i play in a fairly casual environment with extended, vintage and standard type decks being played against each other but still adhering to the restricted and banned lists. it's has been pretty alright with the extremely low amount of power and restricted cards around.

hence i'm not very sure if i should post here or in the casual forum but since my revived deck is primarily a budget vintage storm deck, i'm just gonna post here. =)

one thing to note is that this deck is still pretty much in its testing stages, so hope u guys can help improve its consistency.


Storm Deck
Land: 13
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
4x Island
1x Tundra

Mana Sources: 8
1x Black Lotus
1x Chrome Mox
4x High Tide
2x Dark Ritual

Creature: 0

Storm Finishers: 3
2x Brain Freeze
1x Tendrils of Agony

Draw Engines: 13
4x Accumulated Knowledge
4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timetwister
1x Mind’s Desire
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
1x Necropotence   

Search Engines: 5
1x Cunning Wish
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
2x Merchant Scroll

Untapping Engines: 6
4x Dream’s Grip
2x Turnabout

Counters:    9
4x Force Of Wills
4x Remand/Force Spike
1x Chains of Vapor

Sideboard: 14
2x Snap (fatty or darksteel colossus)
1x Balance
1x Null Rod
1x Disenchant
1x Hurkyl’s Recall
1x High Tide
1x Brain Freeze
1x Dark Ritual
1x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Oath of Druid
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Tropical Island
1x Misdirection

i'm still missing 3 more cards in MD.

Rationale
as im lacking the powered mana artifacts such as moxens, my deck will go off slower as compared to fully powered storm decks.
thus the need for mana generators such as high tide+dream's grip.

example.
3 land in play.
tap 1 land to play 1 high tide, tap another land for 2 floating mana, play dream's grip for one mana to untap that 2nd land.
thus i will be left with 1 floating mana, and two untapped lands. which i can further generate more mana by playing another high tide, or just tapping the two lands for 4 mana.

as my deck is slightly slower, i have to include 4x force of wills and 4x[some kinda counterspells] to protect my storm and/or delay my opponent at the first 3 turns til im ready to storm.

Trials
recently i proxied the entire deck, including 3 island to fill up the missing 3 slots.
i played two matches against: a u/w isochron scepter deck, an astral rift deck, b/u reanimator control deck, a zombie deck, and a white weenie deck.

however i only did 2-1 against a fully powered oath deck, with every game being a freaking tight race.

i consistently won around turn 3-4. with only once ending at turn 7 at 1 life, as the u/w isochron deck managed to put a scepter+counterspell into play at turn2. i only managed one t2 win with a black lotus + dark ritual + ancestral recall in my hand.

Possible Inclusions
Cabal Ritual
Chromatic Sphere
Spoils of the Vault


i really need advice on how to improve/tweak my deck to ensure greater win/turn consistency. help guys!

ps. some sideboarding help would b great too! ;D

[vampirehikaru]

due to some good news, i have got funds to go out and get the following cards:

sol ring
lion's eye diamond
mana vault
mana crypt
mox diamond
lotus petal


should i include them? if so, remove what! ;D im from asia, so i guess the most of you are still asleep.hahas.

[houseplant]

EDIT:-----
For your deck, and untapping you could always look at
Snap: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=8222 (which could also use as protection),
Cloud Of Faeries: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=8020 and
Frantic Search: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=8062
------------


Sorry I can't be of much help with your current deck, but I used to play this "mono black" tendrils budget deck a lot. I really liked it. Not sure if you want to stay blue but this could be an idea.


This was the last list we were on.

Mana: 31
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 swamp
3 bloodstained mire
1 lotus petal
1 chrome mox
1 mox diamond
1 mox jet
1 mox ruby
1 black lotus
1 lion's eye diamond
1 mana crypt
3 land grant
3 cabal ritual
4 dark ritual
4 culling the weak

Creatures for culling: 8
4 crookshank kobolds
4 crimson kobold

Tutor: 3
1 vamipric tutor
1 demonic tutor
1 demonic consultation

Draw: 12
1 wheel of fortune
4 cruel bargain
3 night's whisper
1 infernal contract
1 memory jar
1 necropotence
1 skull clamp

Win: 4
3 tendrils of agony
1 yawgmoths will

Protection: 3
3 duress


It is really not that difficult to play, since really all you are doing is getting mana, then drawing cards, then more mana, then more cards.

Here is kinda a turny report from the last tournament we brought the thing too, which my friend and co creator playing the deck. http://www.untouchables.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30

I'd probably want to fit yawg bargain, which if you can get out before loosing a ridiculous amount of life to the draw 4s is good game. Plus probably the 4th duress. Since that is the only protection from anything.

It is a fun deck.


I have tried to add blue to it. Add the rest of the moxes; add academy, then twister, recall and minds desire. Went to unmask instead of duress. I think lost the kobolds, can’t remember.

But yeah. The deck is a lot of fun to play, and can turn one fairly frequently.

[vampirehikaru]

hrrm. i dont have 5moxes or academy.

version 2.
Land: 11
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
2x Island
1x Tundra

Mana Sources: 13
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mox Diamond
1x Chrome Mox
4x High Tide
4x Dark Ritual

Creature: 0

Storm Finishers: 2
2x Tendrils of Agony

Draw Engines: 13
4x Accumulated Knowledge
4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timetwister
1x Mind’s Desire
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
1x Necropotence

Search Engines: 7
1x Cunning Wish
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
2x Merchant Scroll
2x Grim Tutor

Untapping Engines: 6
4x Dream’s Grip
2x Turnabout

Counters:    8
4x Force Of Wills
4x Duress


Sideboard: 14
2x Snap (fatty or darksteel colossus)
1x Balance
1x Null Rod
1x Disenchant
1x Hurkyl’s Recall
1x High Tide
1x Brain Freeze
1x Dark Ritual
1x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Oath of Druid
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Tropical Island
1x Misdirection


im seriously considering removing turnabout or/and dream's grip for cabal ritual and perhaps abit more land?
but i'm still afraid of consistency.

[houseplant]

You have too many rituals and high tides with sideboard,


I really like the High Tide, Cloud of Faeries and Snap

turn 2, with 2 lands,

tap one land,
high tide,
tap the other, UU floating
play cloud, untap both lands 0 floating
tap both lands, UUUU floating
snap cloud, untap both lands, UU floating.
tap both lands, UUUUUU floating,
play cloud again, untap both lands. UUUU floating.

so now you have 4 blue mana and 2 untaped lands, to do with what you'd like.

what I would do, would be

-4 acumilated knowledge
-4 dreams grip
-1 necropotence
-2 grim tutor
-2 dark ritual (maybe keep the one in sideboard to wish for)

+4 Cloud Of Faeries
+4 Snap
+3 Meditate
+1 Frantic Search
+1 Time Spiral

I really like Time Spiral in this because in the example above, which isn't hard to do at all since everything is a 4 of, you could time spiral with 2 mana in your pool plus then your lands untap. with atleast 6 mana availible you should be able to do a lot.


actually I also might go.

- the other 2 rituals, for Vampiric tutor, and Fact or Fiction.

[vampirehikaru]

wouldn't cards like mediate and timespiral slow me down a couple of turns?

on another note, your combo seems interesting.
i would probably
-2 turnabout
-4 dream's grip
-2 grim tutors

+4 cloud of faeries
+4 snap

i like the ability of necropotence and AK to give me answers and combo ingredients.

[ErkBek]

Do you have any intuitions? If so then you might be best off running some sort of Intuition Tendrils like deck. I'm thinking something along these lines

Land 16
8 Fetches
3 Usea
2 Island
2 Swamp

Acceleration 12
4 Dark Rit
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
3 Cabal Rit

Disruption 12
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
2 Remand/Repeal
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild

Tutors 6
1 Vamp
1 Mystical
1 Demonic
2 Grim Tutor
1 Perplex (trust me, this card is actually pretty decent)

Draw and Bombs 13
4 Intution
2 Deep Analysis
4 Brainstorm
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will

The Kill 1
1 Tendrils

This deck usually has the combo combo finish of this play

Intuition for Rituals -> Rit + Rit -> Tutor up will and play it -> Rit x4 -> tutor up will. 

[vampirehikaru]

would some variation of TPS or PitchLong be a better deck?

[ErkBek]

would some variation of TPS or PitchLong be a better deck?

nope, those decks really need their moxes.

[vampirehikaru]

damn. i have an extra beta ed near-mint ancestral recall, gna tryin to sell it to get unlimited ed decent-con moxes =X

hopefully cheap.

[Methuselahn]

vampirehikaru, welcome to TMD!   

would some variation of TPS or PitchLong be a better deck?

nope, those decks really need their moxes.

I'm confused,

alright, first and foremost i don't play competitively, and i play in a fairly casual environment with extended, vintage and standard type decks being played against each other but still adhering to the restricted and banned lists. it's has been pretty alright with the extremely low amount of power and restricted cards around.

hence i'm not very sure if i should post here or in the casual forum but since my revived deck is primarily a budget vintage storm deck, i'm just gonna post here. =)

Gotta love the guy that brings a gun to a knife fight.    The deck, because you want it to be fully powered storm combo, wants to be in the Vintage Improvement forum,  but your playgroup wants it to be in Casual.  I probably would've posted in the Casual forum.  I wouldn't worry though, the mods will move it.  They get paid to do that. 

In the context of non-casual competitive Vintage, I think High Tide and Dark Ritual have some issues that stem from the manabase it needs to support.  You cant afford to lose fragile non-basics in tournament Vintage.  Your deck has double the problem with no moxen.  Bounce spells such as Rebuild, Chain of Vapor, and Hurkyll's Recall have consistantly proven themselves as the best storm enablers.  Bouncers are also lacking from your list entirely.  I'm guessing your playgroup doesn't run Chalice of the Void.  Or hate.  I'm not sure.  Did you try a search on past High Tide decks?

So, if you really want to smash face, I'd netdeck something and study the metagame.  Or, go build a casual deck.

-Jeff

btw, if you break High Tide in Vintage, I will barnacle you like my neighbor's terrier in heat.

[nataz]

not sure if you have premi for SCG, but Steve's article here might be something you want to check out.

Tsunami Warning - Bringing High Tide to Vintage
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/13186.html

Decklist

Meandeck Tide
Suggested by Stephen Menendian on 2006-11-19 as a potential deck for Vintage
As written about in http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/13186.html
Print this deck!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire

Creatures
4 Cloud Of Faeries
4 Xantid Swarm

Enchantments
1 Fastbond
 

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Frantic Search
4 High Tide
3 Meditate
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Research / Development
4 Snap

Sorceries
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister

Basic Lands
4 Island

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island

 Sideboard:

4 Chalice Of The Void
1 Brain Freeze
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force Of Will
1 Rebuild
1 Regrowth
3 Tendrils Of Agony

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

There is also a suggested "budget" version removing the power for 4 FOW and 1 Meditate. Check out the forum responses for more discussion. It certainly the best "budget" storm deck I've ever seen, and kinda fits into what you are looking for.

[GrandpaBelcher]

You know, if you don't see a lot of Null Rods in your play group, you might consider Easter Tendrils.  (I'm going to link you to that thread and reference that, so don't get confused when I start talking gibberish):

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29848.0

I always think that deck is a blast to play.  It's fairly resilient to everything except Null Rod (which it's not impossible to bounce and start going off), and it has a really good chance of winning before Null Rod hits play, even without power.  The sideboard I used was mostly just a wishboard (hence Tariff, though I'm not sure why Echoing Ruin or something similar isn't in there), but I hardly ever sideboard anyway.  At this point I would probably use Chromatic Star in place of Chromatic Sphere, but I'm not really sure it matters since there's no Welders.  Welders and Disciples of the Vault might be good in the sideboard, come to think of it.

Really, the biggest drawback is that you don't have any significant protection before the sideboard.  You exchange Duresses and Hurkyll's for a really good goldfish, though--good enough that I wouldn't feel too bad about taking this to an actual tournament sometime.  I won't deny it being my pet deck, though.

If you're interested, I'm happy to help more.