Edit: Dan Yarrington's mention of HSC and link to this thread in his recent
TMWA post has brought new attention to this thread. Rather than necro an old thread I'll simply post a link to the most
recent list I've been running. The addition of Extirpate both in the main and the sideboard offers the deck an additional means of hitting my opponent's key cards. If you have any further questions about the deck in the current metagame feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to answer them. Enjoy!
HSC - Hide & Seek Control.
An Introduction.
1. History
2. The List
3. Key Cards
4. Other Cards Tested
5. FAQs
6. Reasons to and not to play this deck
7. Match Analysis and sideboarding strategies
1. HistoryIn the years that I have been playing Magic I have always gravitated towards control decks. I started off playing a mono-white control deck with Preachers & Skull Catapults during the dark ages before the Dojo, ran Parfait during the era of Beyond Dominia before finally finishing off a set of power 9 as Paragon Keeper was gaining prominence. With all the decks I played I had become accustomed to having answers to any of the potential threats my opponents might play. As the Vintage metagame evolved, traditional control decks gave way to decks with a control shell but combo kills and fewer actual answers to what the opponent was playing I had a difficult time adjusting my style of play to suit these new decks. Brassman's Gifts deck was a little more forgiving than the imposing Control Slaver and I played that with limited success for some time always looking back to the glory days of 4CC.
The Guildpact prerelease sparked my interest and I set about creating a BW control deck for Vintage. I looked at similar lists others were working on. Chris Pikula's
Deadguy Ale, LordMayhem's
BWG control deck as well as
AmbivalentDuck's and
Guli's BW aggro decks served as reference points for my own work. I also leaned heavily on my experience with playing Parfait and 4CC as well. I playtested early versions in a few small tournaments before playing it at
SCG Richmond event on day 2. The results there were lackluster but it forced me to take a hard look at what the deck was attempting to do in a format that could do everything much faster than it. I cut a lot of the narrow cards and refocused my efforts.
With the release of Hide/Seek in Dissension the deck took on its current form. After retooling the mana base and playing it in a small tournament in Savannah I tweaked the main deck to have options against all the prominent decks in the metagame and to survive long enough for its own win conditions to matter. I played it both days in
SCG Charlotte and my overall record for the weekend was a disappointing 2-4-2 (Day 1: 0-1-2; Day 2: 2-2-1). I had a decent run day 2 but I made a mistake in Round 4 that cost me a draw over a loss. That put me on tilt over the next round and I ended up scooping to my opponent at time because of my own frustration and another draw would have benefited neither of us. One of the positives I took away from that weekend was that the deck didn't lose a single game 1. Whether simply because it was an unknown deck and my opponents' didn't know how to play against it or otherwise I'm not entirely certain. My day 2 match-ups included: UW Vial Fish (W2-0), Grim Long (W2-0), Xerox (D1-1-1), ICBM Oath (L1-2) and Meandeck Ichorid (L1-2).
Additional smaller tournaments have allowed me to get a better feel for the deck. These events also brought to bare further issues with my mana base that I addressed before playing it again at the SCG Power 9 in Roanoke. I eliminated Strip Mine, Volrath's Stronghold and 2 Badlands from my Charlotte list in favor of 2 additional basic lands, a 3rd Plateau and Flagstones of Trokair. The rest of the changes were solid but the jury is still out on Flagstones. It seems to have great potential versus a deck like Stax.
At Roanoke my day 1 results were again mediocre. Day 1 match-ups included: Grim Long (D1-1), UbaMask (W2-1), Oath (D1-1), Manaless Ichorid (D1-1), Mono-Black Ichorid (W2-0), Drain Tendrils (L0-2). The deck performed as it should but I struggled to keep pace with the clock. Day two started out tremendously going 3-0 before play errors got the better of me in Rounds 5 and 6 dropping me out of Top 8 contention and then a shot at 9th place respectively. Day 2 match-ups included: 5cStax (W2-0), ICBM Oath (W2-1), 5cStax (W2-0), Drain Tendrils (L0-2), UW Fish (L0-2), Masknaught (D1-1-1). I feel the list I ran in Roanoke is strong but I need to play it faster and tighter in order to truly break through with the deck.
2. The List3 Exalted Angel
4 Dark Confidant
4 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hide / Seek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Balance
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Moat
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scrubland
3 Plateau
3 Plains
3 Swamp
1 Flagstones of Trokair
Sideboard
3 Sacred Ground
3 Pithing Needle
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Disenchant
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Tormod's Crypt
3. Key CardsHide / Seek - The deck was a BW deck prior to the release of Dissension and Hide / Seek changed that. Over the course of testing the BW deck it was in need of some way to get rid of key cards my opponent could be playing before they were played against me. Jester's Cap and Cranial Extraction were possibilities but neither were fast enough within this deck to really be worthwhile. With the release of Dissension and Hide / Seek, the deck took on its current framework. The addition of red allowed me to make use of Rack and Ruin as well. Seek is an extraordinary card in Vintage right now with many of the top decks running very few win conditions. Its life gain can buy you further turns against aggro and force Tendrils-based combo decks to win with a huge storm count after removing their DSC. Hide is a solid card as well giving you the option to get rid of pesky artifacts and enchantments in match-ups where your opponent runs more than just a few win conditions.
Orim's Chant - This slot originally was occupied by Cabal Therapy. Therapy was always there as a means to force another card through behind it against control decks and disrupt other decks early. Against combo Therapy was a crap shoot. They run so many one-ofs that it was hard to nail any of their key spells. The fact that I was running so few creatures made the flashback portion of it rarely useful and the slot eventually replaced by Chant. Orim's Chant plays the same role against control decks but has the added bonus of stopping my opponent's combat phase or stunting my opponent's storm count. Chant can also prevent a huge Yawgmoth's Will from happening and take away from the explosiveness of a draw-7.
Sensei's Divining Top - Top is an amazing card for the deck even without Confidant in play allowing you to optimize your draws against what you are playing against. Being able to play an instant off the top of your library can be huge as well.
Exalted Angel - Angel has been a key win condition in control decks over the years highlighted by 4CC-Germbus and Angel Stompy in Legacy. While an angel is not a ideal card to reveal with Confidant, its life gain, along with that from Seek, generally make up for any loss of life. The life gained from both cards allows you to have a little breathing room versus both aggro and tendrils-based combo.
Moat - This is a strong card in the current metagame. Its viable against every deck with the exception of Oath and Dragon. While its not ideal versus the Gifts or Tendrils matchup where it hampers HSC's role as the beatdown deck it can still hold off their Colossus while the angels fly overhead for the win.
4. Other Cards Tested.Additional card draw (Night Whispers, Skeletal Scrying) - My initial BW builds focused on trying to create a deck very similar to Zherbus' last version of
3CC minus the blue core. These early builds had a much heavier amount of draw but were sacrificing removal slots. As a result the deck had a hard time keeping up with aggro and control decks just had to counter the one or two threats I played to prevent me from winning.
Engineered Plague - In the best situations EP is a good card to play. One of my initial builds of the deck ran one in the main deck as it was in theory strong versus CS, Oath, earlier versions of Dragon with Xantid swarm, FCG and Stax. I ran into issues with it against non-goblin aggro where it didn't do a whole lot of good and was slower than the opposing forces. Against most decks though it rarely came out early enough to be really effective.
Crucible of Worlds - The initial impetus behind running CoW was the potential of getting the Strip Mine lock against control and having something in the main to counteract Wastelands. In attempting to Crucible-lock an opponent, I found it prevented me from developing my own mana base and playing additional threats. As a singleton it only rarely came out early enough to be effective.
Decree of Justice - This was an alternate win condition to Exalted Angel that I tried early on. Like Skeletal Scrying, because the deck was lacking in mana acceleration it was difficult to make effective use of it.
Equipment - I tested both Jitte and SoFI but I never had sufficient creatures to truly take advantage of them. A friend built a 5 color version of the deck employing more creatures and a few SoFI. The list for the Cullen Deuce can be found
here.
Mana Crypt and off-color Moxes - Earlier versions ran Mana Crypt which was excellent at helping to power out an early angel but I wanted to minimize the damage against a Chalice played for 0.
Strip Mine/Wastelands - Sometimes the colorless mana became a liability. Being able to take out an opponent's key land such as Library, Academy, Workshop or Bazaar can certainly be strong but all the decks running those cards were much more explosive than this deck and I needed my mana base to be rock solid first and foremost in order to keep up.
Volrath's Stronghold - This card was in the deck for some time before being cut to solidify the deck's mana base. It was great in a long game with control and burn decks but earlier game its ability did not see any use and its non-basis status combined only producing colorless mana became too much of a liability.
Isochron Scepter - This has been a more recent card that I and others have tested in the build. With the amount of Welders, Null Rods and Pithing Needles seeing use in the format today I do not feel this is a worth while card at this time. Even as a sideboard option against decks without those cards it has always felt like a "win-more" card. It forces you play differently waiting for it to appear in tandem with an instant to imprint on it.
5. FAQsWhy so many tutors and one-ofs?
I wanted the deck to be a true control deck with lots of redundant core cards as well as a few silver bullets against key matchups. The tutors as well as the Tops help me get to the cards needed for whatever the situation may require.
Why not play more creatures/threats/tempo?
I have always gravitated towards control decks. I have a better feel for how to play them than aggro or combo and I wanted to create something of that nature. Others have done a great job building aggro decks around Hide / Seek but that was not my intent when creating this deck. I feel that the cards I am playing instead of additional creatures (Balance, Will, the sliver bullets, as well as the additional search) allow for more options based on the particular match up. In the current Vintage environment a deck that is not running blue or is not utilizing the explosiveness of Workshop or Bazaar has an uphill battle to survive long enough to win. This deck is designed to survive and prevent my opponent from winning first and win afterwards.
Why are you playing Yawgmoth's Will in a deck that cannot take advantage of it as fully as the other decks in the current metagame?
While this deck is an anti-Will deck, I still think Will is viable in this deck. While this deck's Will turns are never on the scale of decks designed around truly abusing it, it does allow the user to play a few additional spells that have been building up in its graveyard over the course of the game to eek out a little more advantage over the board and the game.
Why not play Chalice of the Void?
I think the decks that can best utilize Chalice set at 0 are decks that can win within a few turns giving their opponent only a short time frame to find an answer to the Chalice. ICBM Oath, Fish, Ichorid and Workshop based decks all have the ability to follow up a Chalice set at 0 with threats that dramatically shorten the game. This deck does not do that. Instead it seeks to survive the early game preventing its opponent from winning and win the long game afterwards.
Why Disenchants in the sideboard over additional Seals of Cleansing?
They can be either. Disenchants suit my play style better. It has a little advantage in being able to be played on my opponent's turn, particularly versus Oath and Stax on their end step, freeing you up to play another spell on your turn. Granted in both of those situations you could just as easily pro actively play Seal on your turn but against Oath that gives them the ability to counter it and then untap for their turn.
How does this deck beat combo?
Admittedly the deck has no options vs combo going off turn 1 on the play but the deck can survive the early game against it with the help of Duress and Chant until it can find Seek and pull their win condition(s). In addition to running four-ofs of all three cards the deck also has three tutors that can get any card it needs given the situation. The Divining Tops are also helpful at optimizing your draws. The maindeck Tormod's Crypt is helpful in preventing them from abusing Yawgmoth's Will. Chant is generally played in response to either Will or a draw-7 to stunt their storm count.
6. Reasons to and not to play this deckReasons to play this deck:
You have an affinity for rogue decks.
You prefer to play something other than Tinker-Colossus.
You want to take advantage decks that run very few actual win conditions.
You enjoy playing a well rounded deck with answers to all that the environment can dish out.
Reasons NOT to play this deck:
You like winning on turn one.
You can't be bothered by what your opponent might be playing on their side of the board.
You like having free time in-between rounds to network, trade, scout, go to the bathroom, eat, etc.
You want to give yourself leeway to make a few mistakes and still win the game.
Lack of broken/savage plays.
7. Match-up analysis/Sideboarding strategiesI'm not going to give statistics on how this deck does against the current metagame. Frankly, I haven't played a sufficient number of games against any of them to give an accurate account of that. Instead I want to focus on HSC's game plan versus each deck. Often times the deck can go from playing the role of control to beatdown or vice versa within the span of a few turns based on its ebb and flow of the game. The key is to recognize that turning point in the game and adjust your play accordingly.
CS - This is probably HSC's toughest matchup. All this deck needs is an active Welder and one of its key artifacts to secure the game in its favor. Early Duress's, Seeks and Confidants can help you get ahead. Obvious Seek targets are Slaver, Jar, Titan, Duplicant, Triskelion and Colossus depending on what build they are running. Colossus is the least of your concerns against this deck. Needles and additional Crypts out of the sideboard help after game 1.
Gifts - Game 1 your aim should be to resolve Seek taking out Colossus and Burning Wish or Tendrils (if they maindeck it). Game 2 they will likely bring the Tendrils into the main and you need to keep up the pressure with disruption and extra Crypts.
Tendrils based combo (Long, TPS, IT, etc) - Duress and Chant keep them at bay early while Seek can pull their win conditions. Tormod's Crypt limits the potential abuse of their graveyard via Yawgmoth's Will and Timetwister as well. If they are playing with both a Tendrils and DSC main deck I normally pull the Colossus forcing them to resolve a Tendrils with a huge storm count or play it a 2nd time. Either way, 11 life buys you time to further disrupt their game plan. Game 2 you bring in Pithing Needles (Jar, Necro, Bargain) and Crypts to further disrupt their game plan.
Stax/UbaStax/AggroShop - Use your tutors early to get Hide, Seal of Cleansing or Rack and Ruin in your hand to try to hold off their game plan early. The first target for Seek should be Sundering Titan, followed closely by Triskelion. After game 2 loads of anti-Stax cards come in from the sideboard: Rack and Ruin, Sacred Ground, Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt.
Oath - Use Seek to pull their creatures before Oath is on the board. Use Hide after Oath is on the board to buy more time to draw creature removal. Chants are handy at buying additional time once they have a creature in play. Edicts come in after game 1 to help against SSS.
Dragon - HSC has plenty of hate against Dragon. This is one of the few match-ups where Hide is better than Seek. After game 1, Needles and more Crypts come in from the sideboard to maximize the hate. You want to do you best to avoid having them go into an infinite loop and draw the game.
Null Rod Fish - Hides, Seal of Cleansing and Rack and Ruin help to minimize Null Rod's effect on your game plan while you establish board control. Moat can be huge against Fish game 1 as many only play enchantment kill in the sideboard. Game 2 the main deck Crypt and Eng. Explosives go out for additional effective artifact hate and creature kill.
AEther Vial Fish - Your game plan is very similar to Rod Fish but sideboarding is slightly different. Game 2 Sacred Ground, Needles (Wasteland, AEther Vial, Ninja of the Deep Hours, Wild Mongrel, Mishra's Factories, etc), Rack and Ruin and Diabolic Edicts are all options to bring in.
Sullivan Solution - STPs, Engineered Explosives and Balance can help keep their creatures off the board while you establish board control and win with Angel. Needles, Edicts and Sacred Grounds come in after game 1.
Ichorid - The maindeck Moat and Tormod's Crypt can be huge against them. Save Hide for the potential Chalice set at 0 if you haven't seen your Crypt yet. Seek can pull their bigger spells just to buy you a few additional turns. After game 1 bring in Crypts, Needles and Disenchants.
Bomberman - Removing their Black Lotus from the game via either Seek or Tormod's Crypt will prevent them from being able to combo you out. Their Salvagers and Cunning Wishes are also viable targets if you are unable to get to their Lotus. Game two you can bring in Needles and Crypts to further disrupt their game plan.
FCG - Stall their game plan early using Chant, STP, Seek, etc. long enough to get a Moat in play. From there their only means of winning is to burn you out with Seige-Gang or Sharpshooter. Other targets for Seek include their Siege-Gang Commander, Kiki Jikki. Seek is great after they've stacked their deck with Goblin Recruiter. Game 2 you can bring in Needles to further stunt their development.
I hope you've enjoyed this introduction to Hide/Seek Control. I'm sure there will be plenty of questions so feel free to ask.
Edit: fixed typo.
