3rd place MOL (Belgium): Ichorid (26-11-06)

[Odd mutation]

Hi all,

As I don't have the necessary skills, nor talents to be an incredibly entertaining writer compared to Mr. Feinstein, I will constrain myself to the bare facts.

Today I played in a Type I tournement in Mol Belgium. Turnout was below expectations, only 23 (24?). Not the standard compared to the usual 60+, but the skill level was extremely high. If you would check any lists played, please remind yourself that this is Europe, Belgium and a different meta is played. There were at least 3 Oath decks, multiple Control Slavers, a few UbaStax lists, several combo decks (at least one Grim Long) and some UW Fish + a few random decks.

I played Ichorid...

Lately, I've been following the discussions on these boards and on Starcitygames.com about the manaless Ichorid deck but some testing left me with the following list:

Maindeck

Creatures

4 Ichorid
4 Nether Shadow
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Putrid Imp
3 Ashen Ghoul
2 Golgari Thug

1 Sundering Titan

Spells

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Unmask
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dread Return

Mana

4 Bayou
3 City of Brass
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Mox Jet
1 Chrome Mox

4 Bazaar of Baghdad

Sideboard

4 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Darkblast
1 Kaervek the Merciless
1 Crater Hellion

This is clearly not manaless! I found that I was mulling too much with the manaless version (posted on the respective threads). Serum Powder was helpful but I was almost never happy with the cards I had to remove. So I wanted Putrid Imps in the deck. As I got them in I needed mana and so Ashen Ghouls were next to come in.
I took out the Sutured Ghoul combo, as I felt it takes up too much space and it can get Swords to Plowshared or bounced too easily. I only liked it against stax lists. The Dread Return play is really powerful and the creature you get should prove to be enough to win or to help the win. The Sutured Ghoul felt too space hungry and too fancy.
I wanted Kaervek the Merciless to be a Laquatus's Champion but the order didn't reach me on time and I could only find Kaervek at the site. It proved ok once but I still prefer Laquatus's Champion.
I prefer my mana to stick around so I opted against Lotus (!) and Petal and sleeved op my shiny new Arabian Nights Cities of Brass.
Crater Hellion was anti Fish tech I wanted to test.

On to the games:

Match 1: Bart Froyen with Oath

Game 1

I lead with an Unmask and see Akroma sitting in his hand. Nice, just stay there and be good! I lay Bazaar and soon my critters kill him while I pick away at his hand: Cabal Therapy is great! especially if you see everything with Unmask...

0-1

Game 2

I face turn two Tinker Colossus and I'm never fast enough.

1-1

Game 3

I lay bazaar and Chalice of the Void which is so completely awesome in this deck (and in others for that matter) and after 4 turns he's dead.

2-1
Cool opponent but my deck was just better.

(1-0-0) Match 2: Benni Massin with Control Slaver

This guy is a bit known for cheaty plays so I am on my guard. He's nervous sitting down so I ask what's up. The judge comes over and asks for his deck: deck check and he's one card short.

Game 1 = Game Loss

1-0

Game 2

I lay Bazaar and he's dead in three turns.

2-0
We play another game for fun and I win that in three or four turns as well, so the result is ok in the end. I don't like winning through game losses. Benni and I will never be best friends but there weren't any problems during our game(s).

(2-0-0) Match 3: Ilja Berukov with Control Slaver

Ilja is a guy from 'my' local club and he's been doing extremely well lately! He primarily plays Vintage and Legacy and almost always makes top 8. Not only makes top 8 but wins a lot of tournements. He's the nr.3 Eternal player in Belgium. But I know him well and am up for the challenge.

Game 1

I play it slow with the Putrid Imp way of dredging and his life drops steadily but surely. Cabal Therapy is wonderful! Unmask helps a lot too. Then he's at 4 and gets the decks namesake online and I never get a turn...

0-1

Game 2

I lay Bazaar and he's dead in 4 turns with almost no cards in hand.

1-1

Game 3

I start slowly with Putrid Imp but as soon as Troll hits the graveyard it goes a lot faster. I even survive 2 Tormod Crypt activations through getting Troll back to my hand in response, discarding it to the Imp and start dredging again with the Bazaar I drew. That's right, 2 Tormod's Crypts and still a dead opponent after 8 turns: Crypt still slows you down enormously.

(3-0-0) Match 4 & 5: ID

I'm in top 8!

Quarterfinal: Mathi Lenaerts with Drain Tendrils

I haven't faced combo all day and am looking forward to test my skills!

Game 1

I lay Putrid Imp and Unmask him twice. I start dredging and kill his hand with flashbacked Cabal Therapies. The sacrificed Ichorid eats 3 life and a crucial card each time it comes around.

1-0

Game 2

I Unmask, Bazaar and Cabal Therapy a lot and he is able to Brainstorm a lot. But I keep record of his cards and make the right desicions on my Therapies. I bring him from 13 to 4 and then I flashback Dread Return for Kaervek the Merciless I brought in. He topdecks a Memory Jar but cannot play it because of the Kaervek and the 4 life he has left. I win! Laquatus's Champion would have been enough either and I still think he's just better. I hope my order will reach me this week...

2-0

Semifinals: Gwen Descampelaere with Control Slaver

This guy is good! He plays an even better Slaver then Ilja Berukov! I have a lot of respect for his play skills...

Game 1

I play Chalice of the Void for Zero, which draws a Force of Will and promptly lay my second Chalice for 0. Bazaar and all the discard give me a swift victory.

1-0

Game 2

I play Mox Jet which gets countered with an Annul! He told me he tested this matchup and he proves it: the next turn I try Chrome Mox and he Mana Drains! No mana = no Putrid Imp, both remain harmlessly in my hand! I get one down at last but I don't dredge enough and slowly but surely he gets the upper hand and finishes me off after a well timed Tormod's Crypt. This time I can't recover because he has killed my Imp just before...

1-1

Game 3

I keep a hand with Bayou, City of Brass, Putrid Imp, Darkblast, Darkblast, Unmask. I Unmask him through removing 1 Darkblast and lay Putrid Imp. My next upkeep I discard Darkblast and start dredging. Over the next 4 turns I dredge nothing but land and Needles and Bazaars and Ancient Grudges and... no business. He lays a Needle on Putrid Imp and I forget to discard the Darkblast I've been discarding to be able to dredge on my draw step. I also forget that I have threshold and that I can just target my own Imp with the Darkblast to get it into the graveyard... I do Darkblast his Triskelion when it hits but then it's all too late.

1-2
Too bad, but I had a great tournement and learned a lot. Gwen proceeds to win the tournement by defeating Ilja in the finals in one of the most spectacular games of magic I've ever seen!!! I have deep respect for his play skills with Control Slaver, he also knows how to play his matchups!
Congratulations Gwen on the fantastic win, Ilja with great second place and myself for taking third! Yay!

Afterthoughts

I definetily like this list better then the manaless version. I have to mulligan a lot less, although maybe I should have in one of the two last games of the semifinals. You can play with Ashen Ghoul, which sticks around, and with Putrid Imp, which beats for two as well!

I was less impressed with Nether Shadow but I still believe them to be necessary, especially in the Stax matchup.
I think I will like Laquatus's Champion more then Kaervek the Merciless. I didn't have to play fish so I don't know if Crater Hellion is any good but I like the idea!

I wasn't impressed with Leyline of the Void at all! The problem is that you mulligan for Bazaar first, if one does not show up, you want a Putrid Imp and a black mana source. Whatever is in your hand after the necessary mulligans is nice but Leyline didn't show up enough: I played it once and always found Chalice of the Void more then good enough. I am thinking of removing the Leylines for 3 Ancient Grudges and 1 Darkblast main. If you draw a Layline, it's useless... That doesn't happen a lot but it's not of much use in the graveyard anyway. Grudges and Darkblast can be good. If I need graveyard removal, I think I prefer Tormod's Crypt. I did loose two games in the semifinals 'though to a timely Yawgmoth's Will... I'd appreciate your opinions on this.

The space gained in the sideboard because of the 3Ancient Grudges and the 1 Darkblast moving to the main, will be used for 4 Root Maze, to come in against combo.

I really would appreciate your opinions on sideboard strategies. My sideboarding was:

Oath: -2 Dread Return, -1 Sundering Titan,
+3 Ray of Revelation

Combo: -1 Sundering Titan,
+1 Kaervek the Merciless

Control Slaver: -4 Leyline of the Void (I got sick of them not showing up and being useless in the graveyard), -2 Nether Shadow, -2 Dread return, -1 Sundering Titan
+4 Pithing Needle, +3 Ancient Grudge, +2 Darkblast

I never felt confidant of my sideboarding because of a lack of testing. Definetily needed more work. I think sideboarding will be easier to do with the new list, more straight forward.
Keep in mind: I play in a Stax (Uba, Mud, Chang,...) and Control Slaver meta with one guy playing Grim Long. I usually play Gifts and from now on the list above with the changes mentioned.

Your ideas and comments are welcome. I've been playing this game for ten years now (I'm 29 years old), I have required power recently (+Bazaars and Drains and all, Workshops coming in the near future) and am still having fun! Even more and more fun as I still improve my game. I'd like to thank all of you for offering helpful insights on deck design, matchups and sideboard strategies.

Take care,

Robrecht.

[breed]

Thanks for this good report and congratulation for your results!

 

[Odd mutation]

Thanks, I do try to make an effort...

I will post a link to the results page as soon as MCM (Magic Club Mol puts it online). You'll be able to see final standings and decklists.

Robrecht.

[policehq]

Hey, first off let me say I love the list, but when your plan is to reanimate Sundering Titan, wouldn't you make better of your mana-base (and be more able to cast Ray of Revelation/Ancient Grudge from hand) if you were playing a set of Gemstone Mine/City of Brass instead of adding the basic Swamp and Bayou?

Also, you never got to demonstrate Crater Hellion tech, never playing Fish in the tournament. Have you tested it on your own? In my experience, if you're able to reanimate him, you're probably winning against Fish, and he could be just about any creature for the win.

-hq

[dicemanx]

Congrats - its great to see this deck put up some results, even if they're in relatively small events for the time being.

I must say though that the lack of Serum Powder is a little suspect, and might be a bad idea in the long run. Without having any ways of searching your deck (tutors, Brainstorm/AR/Careful Study), there's a lot of pressure put on your initial 7, and Serum Powder offsets that to some degree.

[Odd mutation]

Thanks for the replies.

@policehq: I didn't test the guy to be honest. I expected fish to appear in some number (which it did, about 4 or 5 lists were present) and Crater Hellion helps to prepare for the final blow. Fish has a lot of creatures and you cannot recur Ichorids indefinetely. You Dread Return the Hellion, clear the board and next turn you attack for the win with everything you bring in. At least, that's the theory... I just wanted to have something ready to face Fish.
The basic Swamp is Wasteland tech against Stax and it did made a difference, once... I don't like gemstone mine because I need the mana to stick around. Although 3 activations might be enough. You usually play a Putrid Imp and bring back 1 or 2 Ashen Ghouls = 3 activations. I'll test this some more for sure but my instinct and experience tells me I don't want to loose the land. Wasteland is pressure enough.
It does come up that you're drawing instead of dredging and sometimes you just have the Ancient Grudge in hand. It's nice to be able to actually cast the thing as well.

@Dicemanx: it was your post that made me change the decklist in the end, so thanks for the good ideas. But in your post you suggest yourself that because of the Imp, you don't have to mulligan that much. During the tournement I didn't have to mulligan more then 3 times! Maybe I've kept a too slow hand once or twice, my mulligan is maybe not developed enough, but in the end I never missed the Serum Powders. I will not be bringing them in any more...
It is indeed correct that there is more pressure on your opening hand. A lot can be done with sufficient shuffling! When you have an Imp, black mana, dredger and a Serum Powder, will you mulligan because of the Powder? I prefer the mana and the useful spells in my graveyard. A lot of times it's important to be able to eat a Mox with Ancient Grudge.
I will be testing Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal and Crop Rotation again. I started with the list used here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30915.0.

I am going to test the meandeck list soon to be able to compare. Maybe a bit strange to end with the beginning but the list I played was performing wonderfully well so I decided upon it. A gamble that payed off in the end.

The surprise factor is of course huge! People just don't know how to play against this list and consequently make a lot of mistakes. When you know your deck, that's a huge advantage! Of all the people I played, Gwen made the least mistakes: it was him winning it all in the end! He tested the matchup and it was a lot harder. Not unwinnable but harder. I tested less then him and clearly, it made a difference.

Robrecht.

[President Skroob]

I agree entirely with your feelings on Serum Powder. I very rarely have to mulligan with a fundamental engine that is nearly identical to yours. I don't feel I need extra mulligans to smooth things out at all.

I also agree that Nether Shadow is kind of sketchy. I have him relegated to my sideboard, as I don't think he deserves a maindeck slot, but if you want to run Dread Return main I don't think that's an option for you. I don't run Dread Return main (and am currently considering cutting it entirely) which makes my decision on Nether Shadow much easier to handle. He's easy to get into play, but he's more of a utility creature than a beater, I think.

I disagree with you on Leyline of the Void, but I think I've had different experiences with it. Leyline hits the combo decks like Gifts and Long the most, but you played almost entirely against decks that are either unaffected or minorly irritated by. It not showing up for you is annoying as well. I hit a lot of stuff in my meta that Leyline really hurts, and it seems to show up for me all the time to boot. Basically, sometimes it underperforms, but sometimes it's a star. After my first tournament with Ichorid, I was about to cut it, but the most recent two that I've top 4ed in have convinced me that it's a star, even if it does not always shine so brightly in every match. Still, as I said, your meta appears to be very different from the one I'm working in.

I think the lone Swamp is spot on. It can save your mana supply in a pinch against Wastelands, and though it can be annoying to be cut off the green mana every so often I think the added security option is worth it.

That being said, I think you might try testing with fewer lands. The best change, in my opinion, that I've made to my Ichorid in the past month is cutting the number of lands. I used to run 10, with 4 Bayou, 3 Polluted Delta, and 4 Bloodstained Mire, but I cut it down to 7 with 4 Bayou, 1 Polluted Delta, 1 Bloodstained Mire, and 1 Swamp. Since then, I haven't really looked back. It basically frees up an extra deck slot to play with. I'd suggest testing it out to see if it fits your preference. I'm not sure whether a manabase that small can incorporate City of Brass (which I assume is to hardcast Ancient Grudge in a pinch. If it's not, I'm not sure why you're running the pain) which might make that a deciding factor, so it's your call. Titan also becomes a bit of a liability with Bayous, so it complicates things further. As I mentioned above, I don't run the Dread Return combo main, and when I bring it in a Grave Troll is the target, so it's much more of a clear cut decision for me.

Final thoughts would be to see if you can fit Darkblast main, since your meta looks like it's infested with Goblin Welders. As you know, you only need one or probably a maximum of two to make the mark that you need.

Anyways, grats on the nice finish!

[dicemanx]

I agree entirely with your feelings on Serum Powder. I very rarely have to mulligan with a fundamental engine that is nearly identical to yours. I don't feel I need extra mulligans to smooth things out at all.

These kind of things do catch up with you eventually. Even relying on Imps is risky in the event that one gets countered or killed, and you don't exactly want to keep hands with Imps if they don't have a dredger. I think Powder is a necessity for any sort of consistency in the long run, or otherwise we should stick to the search heavy Meandeck Ichorid decks.

When you have an Imp, black mana, dredger and a Serum Powder, will you mulligan because of the Powder?

I most likely would, depending on what I'm facing and what disruption I have in hand. If I have nothing in terms of disruption and a Serum Powder when facing decks like Tendrils, Gifts, or WGD, I would use it to try and get a Leyline or Unmask or CotV to start with along with a Bazaar (odds of seeing one go up if you are down to 53 cards). Imp + dredger isn't going to race any of the faster decks in the format if you don't start off with disruption.

[Odd mutation]

Hi mister President!

Thanks a lot for your feedback, it's very well put.

I wouldn't cut nether Shadow completely, maybe restrict myself to three or two and move the rest to the sideboard. I found it helpful (not more then that) against Stax, which I see a lot of. Your arguments considering Dread return are also spot on! I need the Shadows to get sufficient creatures out to at least Cabal Therapy once and then sack 3 for Dread return. I wouldn't cut the Dread returns 'though. They do help, like against turn 2 Colossus or Titan.

Maybe I overreacted a bit on Leyline of the Void... It just never worked, although it would have made a difference in the semifinals when the Control Slaver player killed me both games after a timely Yawgmoth's Will. But...

... I agree with you, I'm running too much land. I almost always had a mana producer in hand which you just don't need. You only need it when you don't have Bazaar to cast the Putrid Imp. I will test with less land and then I have room to spare for the Leylines: I'm not confidant in dropping them entirely. I feel Ancient Grudge is a must (an opponent dropped Platinum Angel on me, just before I was about to kill him) but three is maybe too much. So after I cut some land and an Ancient Grudge, the Leylines probably can stay in! Problem solved!

There is a Darkblast main now and one extra in the Sideboard.

Thanks a lot for your good advice, I appreciate it a lot.

Robrecht.

[Odd mutation]

Hi dicemanx,

Ok, you're right. I should have been more specific. When facing countermagic I only relied on Putrid Imp when I had an Unmask i could cast or a second Imp in my hand. The one time this failed on me was when both my moxen got countered. I knew this could happen but didn't think my opponent would know. But, alas Gwen did and he Annuled (!!! he had only one blue mana up so I felt safe...) my Mox Jet and Drained my Chrome Mox (turn after). On all other occasions the Imp resulted in a victory!

Imp is also nice as a backup against Tormod's Crypt. Ilja Crypted (at the very wrong time, but still...) and I discarded my Troll afterwards and I started off again with Bazaar. He Crypts me AGAIN (again not with great timing, but still...) and I discard the Troll afterwards and kill him one turn later.

I was happy with Imp. You always have to think about the mulligan. Don't just see the imp and let it go. Chances are great you'll loose. especially as people catch up with this deck!

Thanks for your reply.

Robrecht.

[cssamerican]

I didn't test the guy to be honest. I expected fish to appear in some number (which it did, about 4 or 5 lists were present) and Crater Hellion helps to prepare for the final blow. Fish has a lot of creatures and you cannot recur Ichorids indefinetely. You Dread Return the Hellion, clear the board and next turn you attack for the win with everything you bring in. At least, that's the theory... I just wanted to have something ready to face Fish.

You might be better off trying Kuro, Pitlord. The differences are small, but they are there. With Kuro you don't lose your own Putrid Imp if you don't want to, you can kill bigger creatures if need be (Even indestructible ones), and it allows you to kill your opponent's creature when you want to. For example, you can prevent an unexpect Dread Return in the mirrorwhich is something that is not possible with Crater Hellion. If you don't use it, it is black so it can be used as payment for Ichorid. The downside is the life payment, but that shouldn't be that big of a problem in a deck like this.

[carl]

Hi all,

As I don't have the necessary skills, nor talents to be an incredibly entertaining writer compared to Mr. Feinstein, I will constrain myself to the bare facts.

Today I played in a Type I tournement in Mol Belgium. Turnout was below expectations, only 23 (24?). Not the standard compared to the usual 60+, but the skill level was extremely high. If you would check any lists played, please remind yourself that this is Europe, Belgium and a different meta is played. There were at least 3 Oath decks, multiple Control Slavers, a few UbaStax lists, several combo decks (at least one Grim Long) and some UW Fish + a few random decks.

Hi Robrecht,

There were 28 players actually.
I don't think that the skill level was high: I managed top 4, and you should have seen all the mistakes I made in my first game. I am getting rusty :)
This is a sanctioned event, so no proxies which explains the metagame difference with US tournies.

I'll probably write a report as well.

Top 8 was:
1 UW fish
3 slaver
1 Ichorid
1 mono-red ubastax
1 oath
1 tendrils

quarters:
slaver lost to UW fish
ubastax lost to slaver
tendrils lost to ichorid
oath lost to slaver

semis:
ichorid lost to slaver
UW fish lost to slaver

Thanks for your report.

[Odd mutation]

Hi,

Final standings and Top 8 Decklists are up:

http://www.magicclubmol.be/files/results/20061126.html

Greetings,

Robrecht.

[Nomad]

This is a sanctioned event, so no proxies which explains the metagame difference with US tournies.

I'll probably write a report as well.

Top 8 was:
1 UW fish
3 slaver
1 Ichorid
1 mono-red ubastax
1 oath
1 tendrils

quarters:
slaver lost to UW fish
ubastax lost to slaver
tendrils lost to ichorid
oath lost to slaver

semis:
ichorid lost to slaver
UW fish lost to slaver

Thanks for your report.

I need to try again here, metagame wise it should suit me very well, with very prevalent CS in the room, and yet last time I managed to get paired against Stax, Oath and even red burn that took a game from me!!

Sanctioned type 1 is the business.