Seal of Will

[magus888]

Seal of Will      3UU
Enchantment
If Seal of Will is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it in play.
Sacrifice Seal of Will: counter target spell.

WotC hasn't printed any "turn 0" counters in a while. Its pretty weak unless its in your opening, so I believe its balanced. I don't think it would see much play in Vintage except in Ichorid.


Current Wording
Seal of Will      3UU
Enchantment
If Seal of Will is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it in play.
Sacrifice Seal of Will: counter target spell.

[diopter]

Force of Will without the card disadvantage drawback? I would play this card in a heartbeat.

[parallax]

I would try something like: "If Seal of Will is in your opening hand, you may remove a card in your hand from the game. If you do, begin the game with it in play."

[magus888]

Force of Will without the card disadvantage drawback? I would play this card in a heartbeat.

Even with just a 40% probability of having it in your opening hand?

[diopter]

Force of Will without the card disadvantage drawback? I would play this card in a heartbeat.

Even with just a 40% probability of having it in your opening hand?

Absolutely. 4 of this card and 4 Force of Will is a critical mass of free countermagic. It would enable decks (both combo and combo-control) to overcommit on a regular basis when playing bombs.

[President Skroob]

Force of Will without the card disadvantage drawback? I would play this card in a heartbeat.

Even with just a 40% probability of having it in your opening hand?

Absolutely. 4 of this card and 4 Force of Will is a critical mass of free countermagic. It would enable decks (both combo and combo-control) to overcommit on a regular basis when playing bombs.

I'm not sure. After turn 0, it becomes nearly dead. It has a strength over Force of Will because it does not pitch another card, but it has an incredible weakness in if it is not in your opening hand it's just a clunky counter. Even beyond that, however slight the issue is, it sits on the table, which makes it known to the opponent (which is key) and also it can be destroyed. It also has the failing that, like Leylines, Gemstone Caverns, anything else that operates turn 0, and even things like Rune Snag, you're stuck playing 4 or playing 0 because of the dual nature of the card. That increases your chances of it functioning, but also increases the chances of drawing deadweight later on in the match. Because it is a deadweight counter after turn 0, you also can't rely on it in a counter slot in a deck. I would imagine that any currently existing archetype that runs Mana Leak would be woefully dissatisfied if it attempted to run this in Mana Leak's place in that slot.

There's a reason why the cards I listed above don't see much play at all. They are too situational to be really good, even if in those situations they're a house.

Basically, by adding another drawback (like removing a card in your hand to play it on turn 0) you're moving it from possibly playable to nigh unplayable.

It's unreliable.
It's a dead draw.
It's a threat that is known to your opponent.
It's vulnerable.
EDIT: It's also a sorcery speed counterspell. You can't even hardcast it like a Force of Will.

The effect is strong because it HAS to be strong to balance out those negatives. Does it really need a hit with the nerf bat?

[diopter]

I would run 4 in Long. In fact, I would experiment with running 4 Force and 4 of this card, with a single Chain as bounce, or even just cut the bounce from the maindeck altogether. I think 8-Pitch-Long.dec would be insane. Especially because of what you said - Seal of Will becomes more unattractive the slower your deck is, so the combo-control decks can't maximize its use as well as a straight up combo deck can. Pitch Long is pretty damn good as it is, and Misdirectons are dead against everything but Drains. Seal of Will would be good against everything.

[parallax]

For the record, Force of Will gets hardcast all the time. I'm never sad to Force a spell without losing a card. On turn 1, it's much better than FoW. In the late game, it's practically equivalent. Granted, it has a significant drawback in the interim, but the card is still broken.

The card is pretty good in Vintage, but it will really bend Standard over it's knee.

It's as unreliable as Leyline of the Void, which sees significant play in Vintage and Extended.
It's not a dead draw. In a topdeck war, it's actually a pretty good draw.
Your opponent knowing you have a counterspell isn't too much of a disadvantage.
It's only vulnerable to bounce.

Being a Seal isn't a disadvantage. A Seal effect is actually better than a normal instant in many cases. I think that Seal of Counterspell at four mana without the free option is a pretty fair (and quite good) card.

[diopter]

Incidentally, Kai Budde's first submission for his Invitational Card was something like:

U
Enchantment
U, Sacrifice ~this~: Draw a card.
UU, Sacrifice ~this~: Counter target spell.

And that card was not printed.

[magus888]

Incidentally, Kai Budde's first submission for his Invitational Card was something like:

U
Enchantment
U, Sacrifice ~this~: Draw a card.
UU, Sacrifice ~this~: Counter target spell.

And that card was not printed.

Because that card is way better than Seal of Will. It's more reliable during the mid to late game. Seal of Will is only good on turn 0, or whenever you have 5 mana. Force of will can be used on every turn, granted that you have a pitchable blue card and you aren't at 1 life. Besides, Seal is a sorcery speed spell when hard cast. And don't forget it can be stifled.

[Matt]

Nonblue decks can play this version, that is a problem that needs addressing.

[magus888]

Nonblue decks can play this version, that is a problem that needs addressing.

But what nonblue deck other than Ichorid would want to play a card that is dead 60% of the time? Besides, decks can play off color leylines. Beyond this, do you see any other problems?

[Pathian]

just a minor nitpick, I believe it should read

Sacrifice Seal of Will: Counter target spell.

replacing the comma with a colon since it's an activated ability

[parallax]

Nonblue decks can play this version, that is a problem that needs addressing.

But what nonblue deck other than Ichorid would want to play a card that is dead 60% of the time? Besides, decks can play off color leylines. Beyond this, do you see any other problems?

The card isn't dead unless you draw it.

Any deck trying to win the game in the first few turns won't mind if it occasionally draws a dead card. Any deck trying to stop its opponent from winning in the first few turns won't mind either. I could easily see a non-blue deck boarding these in against combo. Your card is also much more powerful than any of the Leylines.

[Komatteru]

Having it not playable as an instant is also a pretty significant drawback as well.  I mean, you have to spend a turn and 5 mana to cast this if you aren't fortunate enough to have it in your opening hand.

[Machinus]

So you get a free counterspell every fifth game, and the rest it pitches to FoW and counters spells for 5? I think it's too good.

[diopter]

So you get a free counterspell every fifth game, and the rest it pitches to FoW and counters spells for 5? I think it's too good.

40% odds of drawing it if you run 4. So you actually get it 2 in every 5 games. No tempo loss, no card disadvantage, and strictly better than Force if your deck is designed to win before drawing it as a dead card matters. Not to mention that mulliganing into it won't hurt as much as mulliganing into Force, cuz you don't need to pitch. It would push combo over the top.

[nataz]

yay, now ichorid has counterspells too! Do people really think that's a good idea? Not only vintage, I'm looking at extended also.

[zeus-online]

Its a terrible idea, the last thing we need is more über powerful but incredibly random effects.

/Zeus

[Liam-K]

I can't believe people are saying this isn't useless unless it is in play for free.  3UU in response on your turn is one thing, 3UU on my main phase is entirely another.

Matt's point is relevant though, as is the fact it is an uncounterable counter.  While you can still double counter my bombs with this in play, your first major spell does not resolve unless you tutor up chain of vapor.  This isn't as applicable in Long, where I can see the card getting play.

It's also probably too good for formats that aren't vintage.

[parallax]

Tapping out on your own turn to play this isn't much worse than playing it in response to a spell. The reason tapping out on your turn is bad is because it prevents you from being able to counter your opponent's spells. This doesn't have that drawback. In fact, most of the time, I'd rather play this card out to the table, and have a free counterspell available at all times, than try to keep five mana open all the time.

[Anusien]

I'm very skeptical of "free if they start in your hand spells" because if they're too good, they have a tendency to make games swingy as hell and incredibly luck based.

[Shock Wave]

I would be absolutely horrified if this were to be printed. Please close this thread in case a developer reads it and has a moment of insanity.  :shock:

In all seriousness, this card is just all wrong, for so many reasons, most/all of which have already been stated. The biggest reason not to print this is because of the "oops" factor it creates, much like Trinisphere did as a 4-of.