Oath of Druids Combo

[lordarcanis]

I've been playing around with this deck recently because it really is a lot of fun when it works.  It seems like someone brings this up every once in a while, but it never seems to work out like intended.  Anyway, here is my list:

4 Oath of Druids
1 Eternal Witness

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Duress

4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

In case someone can't tell, the object is to Oath up the only Eternal Witness, dumping most of you lib into your graveyard.  Hopefully, this includes Will, which you then return to your hand.
I've been running into the following problems:
1.  This deck ABSOLUTELY rolls to Fish.  I recently took out City of Brass for the basics, which does help the matchup, but Duress is pretty much worthless and M. Mage plus T. Believer wreck me.  Wasteland still sucks too... 
2.  Since I took out City, it seems like the deck is really slow.  If I have Oath (preferably with Force backup) I don't have Orchard or vise versa.  I do have the black tutors, but they don't seem to show up often enough or throw me off Drain Mana (as in Demonic and Imperial).
3.  Im not too impressed with Timetwister or Windfall, but I think I need more draw than Ancestral or Brainstorm.  Misdirection has been suggested here, but can anyone think of draw spells to put here?

I think I will have 1 Simic Sky Swallower and 1 Akroma in my SB, but other MD/SB suggestions?  I know this deck will not be as good as Long against most matchups, and it won't be as good as Oath against Fish, but come on people!  This is the home to Vintage pioneers!  Let's see what we can do to make it as good as possible!!  Thanks!

[EotGiftsGG?]

1 Krosan Reclamation is key
i also played regrowth = )

the timetwister isnt too good, but maybe it works for you.
a Chain Of Vapor is really good also.

[wethepeople]

Entomb doesnt seem bad for getting Yawg Will to the graveyard incase Oath fails to go over it. Cut Timetwister. Unless you plan on playing it before you Oath, it will just ruin your combo. You should replace that with Entomb or one of the many suggested cards.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Seraphim has put up tournament resolts with this deck .  It looks extremely similar to your execution, though not your kill.

[Gort32]

If you are having issues finding Orchard, Crop Rotation is always a good call in Oath.

[rmn]

4 Oath of Druids
1 Eternal Witness
1 Krosan Reclamation
2 Pandemonium
2 Saproling Burst
2 Replenish

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection

4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Intuition
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Deep Analysis
3 Orim's Chant/Stifle

4 Forbidden Orchard
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Island

This list is pretty much off the top of my head.  You should totally try it.  The kill is not nearly as complicated and hard to pull off as yours, and with an opening hand including 2 land, 2 mox, 1 Oath, it goldfishes on turn 2.  I've tried to add a little redundancy by using doubles of all the combo pieces plus the artifact/enchant destruction, but you can take it out if you want a more consistent early kill.  Plus, Mana Drain lets you hardcast the combo if you like.

[Godder]

Intuition is a good search card if you have a lot of acceleration (which Oath generally has). It's obviously not so good for getting singletons, but if the issue is having Oath and/or Orchard, it will do the trick. It's also a useful way of powering up a Yawgmoth's Will, or even digging it up if necessary (cast once the Oath trigger is on the stack to guarantee a bomb graveyard when Witness hits).

[andrewpate]

Oath/Draw7 was my pet "spare time" deck for about a year, and I have goldfished around 100 games with it in addition to ample matchup testing.  My comments on your list would as follows (speaking to the combo build, not Seraphim's counterspell-heavy version, which is really a different deck):

Cabal Therapy is extremely essential to the deck.  It is vital that Yawgmoth's Will not be countered when you attempt to go off.  If possible, you want to Oath up Eternal Witness, then Therapy from your hand for Force of Will, then flashback sacrificing Witness naming any other disruption card they are holding.  For one mana on the turn you go off, you are almost assured of a successful combo.  Duress is still important against combo because the deck's speed falls somewhere between Dragon and Grim Long, if built and played properly.  I would suggest putting them in the sideboard.

You should not be going with a U/B manabase.  Take advantage of the Forbidden Orchards and run 5 colors.  The deck should look like TPS + Oath engine.  This is to allow you to go off without Oath if necessary.  In my testing with the deck, I kill with a normal TPS kill about 1 game in 10.  Going to City of Brass and Gemstone Mine will allow you to cast Oath more easily, as well as provide you with options like Wheel of Fortune and the much-needed Krosan Reclamation.

I do not have a current decklist because I have not played the deck in some time, but Forsythe's list, aside from running Duress over Therapy (which he later admitted to regretting) and some other questionable choices such as 1xForce of Will, is a fairly solid starting point and one that did well for me when I was first getting acquainted with the deck.

[Purple Hat]

wouldn't oathing up a salvagers kill be easier than oathing up will for the win?  if you don't hit lotus/LED off the first oath you can just oath again next, flash back krosan rec and win.  I like it better because you are guarenteed to get your combo part if oath goes off.

[Kholdestare]

I have tinkered with Oath-Combo for quite a while. I think my build is, as far as I can tell, a little bit like the deck andrewpate plays. Here is my list:

Lands [12]
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Forbidden Orchard
4x City of Brass
3x Gemstone Mine

Jewelry [11]
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Black Lotus
5x Moxen

Acceleration [4]
4x Dark Ritual

Tutoring [8]
1x Crop Rotation
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Burning Wish
3x Impulse

Disruption [6]
4x Force of Will
2x Cabal Therapy

Combo [9]
4x Oath of Druids
1x Krosan Reclamation
2x Eternal Witness
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Tendrils of Agony

Draw 7s [5]
1x Timetwister
1x Windfall
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Tinker
1x Memory Jar

Broken Stuff [4]
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Necropotence
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk

Utility [1]
1x Chain of Vapor

Sideboard [15]
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Balance
1x Imperial Seal
1x Rebuild
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Angel (Akroma + Razia)
2x Sacred Ground
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Duress
2x Pyroclasm

I found that having 2x Witness was necessary. It allows double therapy from the yard. You don't have to cast Krosan Reclamation which can be a strain on your mana in case you're holding a witness in your initial seven.
I do not run Brainstorm, which seems quite sketchy at first glance... However I found them to be quite useless without fetchlands. I think Impulse does a better job here.
Fish really is a tough matchup. 2x Sacred Ground, 2x Pyroclasm and Balance form the board help a little...

[Seraphim3577]

Seraphim has put up tournament resolts with this deck .  It looks extremely similar to your execution, though not your kill.

First and foremost, I'd like to thank AD for quoting my thread.  To lordarcanis, I tried just about every variation I could come up with (tested it for 2 months) and came to the conclusions in the list I presented.  The decklist in my thread is pretty close to optimal and I destroyed fish 2-0 in 2 matches in the tournament I brought it to.  Fish actually was my best matchup.  The primary reason for this was the inclusion of krosan rec, an extra eternal witness, hurkyl's recall, and  engineered explosives in the main.  The matchup got totally dominating postboard after I boarded out he witnesses in favor of 2 simics as well as loam and 3x pyroclasm.  The inclusion of a gifts to create a kill that way made the deck very hard to stop in the late game.  My deck was almost a meandeck gifts / oath hybrid, but I took out cards that I felt didn't win you enough games (tinker - colossus) for more disruption (duress).  You don't need the dark rituals to power out the combo most times, you simply need your black lotus.  I won consistently with my version of the deck on turns 4 and 5 usually with duress and counter backup.  Stifle or trickbind cannot stop it, only leyline of the void and mindslaver proved to pose a serious a problem for the deck.  My eventual loss to an ICBM Oath deck came on the fact that he was running crop rotation and 2 loams.  After mulliganning for game 3, I was forced to keep a 1 land hand and I brainstormed into no mana sources.  Thats bad vs ICBM oath when they run 8 cards that will either kill your land or tutor for a way to kill the land.

If leyline of the void is not prevelant in your area, my decklist is extremely solid.  And thanks to AD again for posting the link to it.



Edit:
I did try the draw 7s for a while in my original deck, but they proved horrid as I ended up rarely ever to combo out after them.  The best way to go usually is just tutors and disruption.  The deck doesn't need rituals, just the lotus and a hurkyls to get the storm necessary.  I calculated with my version that to cast yawg will, hurkyl's, and tendrills (which will give you plenty of storm), you need:

5UBBB, Any moxes you have in play essentially produce double the mana due to recall, lotus will get you at least 3.

So to go off, you will usually have at least 2 moxes / lotus in the yard and 1 mox in play.  Play will, play mox, mox, play recall, mox, mox, mox, play a draw spell in your yard, play a disruption, tendrills for 20.

I went for 2 witnesses in the main due to my uncanny ability to always draw the singleton copy without a brainstorm, coupled with the fact that it allowed me to do the amazing setup of oath into witness, recur timewalk, oath out 2nd witness for will / timewalk.  If you don't have enough to build the storm from the 2nd witness, recur walk again, and oath your library, flashback reclamation for lotus and then go off with ubermana before your opponent gets to take a turn.


If you are having trouble with fish and its rampent in your meta, try my decklist out.  And the link AD put up is an excellent primer for how to play the deck (sideboarding).

[andrewpate]

I agree that 2 Eternal Witnesses is definitely correct, for exactly the reasons you stated.  I should have included this in my post.

I prefer 1 Darksteel Colossus and 1 Simic Sky Swallower out of the board instead of 2 SSS.  This is because Tinker can retrieve the Colossus and allow for an early kill that way, or at least early pressure.  The great thing about the Draw7s is that, in certain matchups, you can actually board into this strategy by taking out Oaths and Witnesses entirely and running what is essentially oldschool TPS with Colossus backup, giving you a better matchup in some scenarios and potentially keeping the opponent offguard (not to mention invalidating any enchantment removal they may have brought in).

I really disagree that the Draw7s are horrid.  Of course, your list runs, as I said, a lot of countermagic.  You were correct in comparing it to the Oath/Gifts hybrid.  I am sure that they were not good in this build (I am not advocating Wheel of Fortune in Gifts, lol), but again, we're talking about two very different fundamental gameplans with the same kill.  Which one is going to be better for you is largely a metagame call.  If you are expecting a ton of TMWA with maindeck Pyrostatic Pillar, obviously Seraphim's list is far superior.  But my build usually wins on turn 3 through disruption--a bit faster than his--and therefore may be preferable if you expect a lot of pure control.  Remember that Matt Place originally designed Oath/TPS to beat Trinistax.

@Kholdestare
Yes, your deck is somewhat similar to mine.  I do not, however, run Force of Will.  Discard should be sufficient disruption and you need the space for some key cards you are currently missing.  First of all, Brainstorm is essential because of its ability to return Eternal Witness to the deck before Oathing.  And while you do lack fetchlands, the large number of tutors (not to mention Timetwister) means that you do have several shuffle effects.  And since Mystical or Vampiric Tutoring for Yawgmoth's Will before Oathing can be so clutch, Brainstorming Witness back is very often quite relevant.  I would cut 3 Impulse from your deck for 3 Brainstorm right off the bat and call it a good day's work, but I also think that you need to find room for the last Brainstorm, as well as Mind's Desire, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Regrowth.  I would also recommend switching the Angels out for a sideboard Oath suite capable of beating W/x Fish with Swords to Plowshares.  At least one SSS would be better.

@Purple Hat
Salvagers Oath is certainly an interesting deck.  I do not prefer it for a number of reasons.  First of all, your point that it can cast Krosan Reclamation to kill on the second turn after Oathing is well taken, but not relevant to the comparison:  Witness Oath can also do this because of the ability to Krosan for Yawgmoth's Will with no deck left in the unlikely event that both Witnesses whiff.  With the entire deck in the yard, going off could not be easier.  I also do not like losing to turn 1 Island, Extract.  Also, the Salvagers kill is even more vulnerable to Leyline of the Void, forcing you to run maindeck bounce in order to beat Ichorid game 1.  With the Witness kill, you can just combo out with Hurkyl's Recall instead of relying on the graveyard.  It will slow you down sometimes (I have occasionally killed on turn 1 with something like Lotus, Mox, Mox, Mox, Hurkyl's, Lotus, Mox, Mox, Mox, Tendrils... but this is obviously very unusual), but it will still allow you to win without relying on something like a graveyard-intensive infinite mana engine.  You are correct that the deck may sometimes be better, but I prefer Witness on the whole.  Incidentally, I feel the same way about Oath-->Rector-->Therapy-->Bargain (although obviously for different reasons), in case anyone was going to suggest that.

[49 Cents]

Somebody in Holland used Jotun Grunt instead of Witness. This way you can recur Walk or Will, while drawing loads of cards..

[andrewpate]

I don't fancy scooping to Ancestral Recall, but that is certainly interesting.  I may test it.

[lordarcanis]

Jotun Grunt: COOL!!  Not the same deck though.  I'd like to stick with Tendrils if possible.  Got a link to the decklist?
Wow!  Seems like we have a lot of pretty good ideas here.  I agree totally with Cabal Therapy.

Oath Combo 2.0:

4 Oath of Druids
1 Eternal Witness

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
1 Entomb
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Krosan Reclimation
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

Some issues-
1. Five color manabase- this doesn't seem like what I want.  I already hate Wasteland.  I don't want to loose fetches and basics just to support red and white (two colors that I don't think I need).
2.  I don't think I have enough Blue to support Misdirection.
3.  Entomb and Krosan Reclimation have both been working out well for me!!   Thanks!!  With these cards, it seems sub-otimal to include another Witness.
4.  So far I have not missed Dark Ritual, as playing and bouncing Moxen is usually enough for the win.

Thanks for the help, people!