Nuicide Black

[Discozombie]

I used to play suicide black, back in the JP Meyer fleshreaver.dec days.  I know that suicide is a much maligned archetype and no one really thinks it can do anything.  I think alot of this is based on people being stuck on the traditional suicide black card choices.  Flesh reaver and negator were the house against control and combo, but with more and more decks running creatures gators and reavers just don't cut it.  Sinkhole and Hymn were too dangerous in a misdirection filled environment when tog came to power. 
To survive today suicide needs be much more versatile and be able to respond to threats not just try to pro-actively disurupt. Well here is a deck I have been tinkering with...

Nuicide Black

Creatures (16)

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Withered Wretch

Tools (16)
       
4 Funeral Charm
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Pithing Needle
4 Duress

Acceleration (6)

4 Dark Ritual
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

Land D/mana (5)

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Vanilla Mana (17)

17 Swamps

Sideboard (this of course is very meta dependent)

4 Planar Void
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Massacre
3 Dystopia

Card Choice Explanations

Nantuko Shade: The big bad beater of this deck.  Also turns mid-late game rituals into giant growths

Dark Confidant: Mini-Necro on a stick.  Just too good

Nezumi Graverobber: Works like withered wretch for twice the activation cost, but can potentially become a 4/2.  And since the flipping is an individual effect caused by its ability activation, you can have two in play and flip one and the other will not die.  I have never actually used the put a creature into play from a graveyard ability but it could be great against ichorid and welder aggro

Withered Wretch: Kills graveyards dead.  Respond to welder,  munch in response to Yawg Will. Shoot ichorid critters before they come out.  and its a 2/2

Funeral Charm: This is probably the card that is making most people go "Huh?".  It has actually been awesome so far.  At its worst it is a crappy discard card, but with wretch and graverobber allwing your opponent to choose their discard is not that bad.  It works like darkblast with out the dredge ability and on a pumped shade or a wretch it becomes a +2 pump spell.  Actually I guess the worst is the swamp walk ability but you can always pump a shade and let him sneak through if your opponent runs swamps of some kind

Diabolic Edict: these could be in the board but with fat creatures running rampant it just seems like a good idea.  Gets rid of DSC, Cookie Monster (Ghoul), oath critters, dreadnought, and in a pitch you can use it second turn to hit a sick welder before he gets going.

Pithing Needle: another card that seems like a sideboard choice but it really is the thinking mans null rod.  Name welder, jitte, bazaar, etc.  My favorite thing to do is to name their fetch lands... tech!

Duress: auto include in any black deck

Dark Ritual, Mox Jet, Black Lotus:  Mana XL is good I hear.

Strip Mine, Wasteland: these are actually my least favorite cards in the deck.  I always want black mana but the way I look at it they are sinkholes that only cost me a land drop.  Combined with pithing needle naming their fetch lands it can be really fun.  Plus they don't hurt when confidant brings them up.

Swamps: Calling them vanilla swamps just sounds weird (chocolate?), but you cannot beat the invulnerability of basic lands!  I don't run fetches because of my tendency to name fetch lands with needle against decks that don't have some kind of single threat card like belcher.

Some of you may notice that there is no Tutor, Consult, or Will.  I don't think this deck has the mana explosiveness to really exploit will, and by the time I would use it as a come from behind card I should have won already or I will be dead.  So it is a moot point.

I am not afraid of consult.  I have consulted for my lotus before turn one to get more mana for an explosive first turn against illusions back in the day.  It let me get out a reaver and Negator first turn.  I just haven't found that I have needed the extra tutor yet.  I tcould be tweaked in but I don't need it yet.

Ok now the lack of demonic tutor is a very controversial card choice and it will probably send me to the newbie forum instantly but I really have not missed it yet.  Confidant gives me great draw and there is 4 of everything in the deck and basically 8 of somethings.  Needle, Charm ,and Edict give me 12 ways to kill or shut down welders.  Graverobber and Wretch give me 8 ways to hit the yard.  It is a totally personal choice.  Drop an edict or charm and put in a tutor if it makes you feel better. 

Being monoblack there are some really nice sideboard options.

Cabal Therapy: Against combo decks since now you know what to name

Massacre: Against fish, Mountains, and other weenie decks.  and for its free cost it is awesome, especially when you have 2 mana to pump a shade to survive.  Since it does not target you can kill the rare pro-black critters.

Dystopia: great against oath.  Kills oath and makes them sac Akroma.

Planar Void: Just too good against too many decks.  Almost good enough for the main.

Null Rod: for artifact heavy environments obviously

Perish: for a scrubby environment

I plan on running this deck at a local tourney soon so constructive comments are welcome.   I would love to see a viable monoblack deck come out of all this.  I think that one of the signs of a healthy metagame is a viable monoblack deck.  The other being a viable monored deck.  If budgety decks can't survive then the meta is broken.

[keys]

I'm pretty sure this will get moved to the Vintage Improvement Forum.  Here are some quick suggestions:

I know you're going for consistency, but I think a single Necropotence is wanted.  I wouldn't be ashamed to reduce the Funeral Charms, Pithing Needles and Edicts each to 3, for V Tutor, D Tutor, and Necro.

How is Needle working for you anyway (you say you're naming fetches often)?  I'd be inclined to play Null Rod instead.

I know Nezumi Graverobber is trying real hard to be Wretch 4-8, but it's really suboptimal.  You'd do better with maindeck Planar Void or Leyline of the Void in that spot.  You have enough beaters.

[Discozombie]

Thanks keys.  I knew this would get moved too.  No one wants to take mono black seriously.  .  On pithing needle I was just saying that even against decks where they don't have somekind of card that you must shut down you can always use them to name fetch lands.  Especially if you get multiple in your opening hand. 

I like the graverobber so far but it could be something else, though I still want to keep that a craeture slot

[hitman]

I put a deck like this together for a friend of mine with white in it.  I think Swords are better than Edicts 'cause they hit their intended target (unless untargetable).  Kataki, War's Wage is really good at slowing most decks down in the format and it works well with Jotun Grunt if they're sacking things to it.  Tolarian Academy counteracts Kataki's effect but they only have one and you have 4 Wastelands and a Strip Mine.  It looks like your deck is weak against enchantments too.  There's a deck being played here and there called Hide/Seek Control that maindecks Moat.  White would let you side Seal of Cleansing and/or Disenchant.  If you play an Enlightened Tutor, maybe you could play 2 Crucibles to take advantage of the strip effects and maybe mainboard some Mishra's Factories to attack with or reuse as chump blockers off the Crucibles.  You would only need one or two Massacres in the sideboard if you mainboard 2 black tutors.  There's no reason not to play Null Rod when it's so good against the field.  You don't want to mainboard so many Pithing Needles because sometimes you won't know what to name game one and you probably never want to see multiples in your opening hand.  If you see a Workshop, it's not a guarantee they're playing Welders.  You don't need to name Tormod's Crypt because you don't care about your graveyard.  Bomberman will blow up the Needle if it's bothersome with their Engineered Explosives.  It is good against Vial Fish and it's great after you know what to effectively name game two.  If Confidant doesn't stay on the board, you don't have any kind of drawing engine to keep the threats coming.  Maybe 3 Night's Whisper or some other good card drawer would be good.  Hope this helped.

[Harlequin]

I agree with the suggestion of cutting some 4-ofs down to 3-ofs (charm, edict) to add in some more tutors and Necropotence. 

The problem with mono-black is that you can't really have an explosive turn 1-2.  Land Rit/jet double duress, needle naming the fetchland in thier hand ... is good but outside of that your mostly setting up for turns 3, 4, 5, etc.  In order to make it to those turns 4 duress and 4 needles is not going to cut it.  I would suggest makeing an attempt to get 4 chalice of voids in there so you can increase your ability to slow your opponent's ability to have an explosive start.  Also unmask is an option... and ofcourse Null Rod is yet another option.   

[Robert the Swordsman]

This deck could benefit from Night's Whisper... also, seventeen swamps seems like a few too many... at least some ought to be cut for Fetchlands, I think.

[meadbert]

Swamps are fine.  The decking thinning is not significant.  Also if he is using Pithing Needle to name fetches he would not want to shut off his own Polluted Delta.

[hauntedechos]

Just a quick reply.  I also like the Planar Void/Leyline idea, as it poses a must deal with situation vs combo.  It also keeps any deck from being able to recover lost spells for whatever reason they were lost.  Also I really like how Control Slaver will have sour feelings towards this dropping. 

As for the debate over the Withered Wretch and the other guy your talking about - I have no idea of either or cards as I've never faced or played them.  That being said, if they are overkill and suboptimal, then put in a set of cards that provide another punch.

Also, have you considered Hypnotic as a fisrt turn threat?(powered out by a Ritual of course)  I know he's usually an issue for Control decks, and first turn = they must deal with him.  As well it provides you with a flyer beatstick with great ability & synergy with PlanarVoid.  Also giving you a little time to put some other cards into play while they deal with him.

Other than that I have no idea how this deck would play out as the only Sui deck I've played was a HD motife.  And in that, the Hypnotic and Abysmals were what I noticed people worried about( that and a cute Haunting Echos hitting play [Tog players cried] ).

Hope it all works out for yeah, as I LOVE seeing new Ideas try to crack the surface.

Cheers Mate and PM me if yeah want
Haunted.

[lordmayhem]

I agree with the idea of using Leylines.

-4 Nezumi
-4 Funeral Charm

+4 Leyline
+4 Unmask

Unmask will allow you to have more explosive turn one plays me thinks.
Also, I'm really against the idea of using Nantuko Shades since they're such a heavy mana sink. What's wrong with Negators? Are you really facing so much Fish? You could try using some Engineered Plague.

[Fall-Titan]

Unmask is cool and all, but since he is trying to put a decent clock on at the same time as disrupting the opponents strategy, why not run mesmeric fiend in that spot? It acts as duress 5-8 and has been used in fish before. In a mono black deck that could theoretically drop this on turn 1 and always on turn 2 it seems like a good choice, and  a distraction for removal while you beat down with shades or something.

Also, with wretch mainboard... why not run the leyline in the board... It seems infi better than dystopia, wtf is that anyway? Who plays white or green perms other than fish which there are better options to deal with that. just replace planar void with them though.

Also, doesnt mindtwist seem good? I know misdirection is big and all, but with as fast as you empty your hand it seems pretty good... it is restricted for a reason, Id drop the nezumis for mesmeric fiend, and the funeral charms for 1 mind twist, 1 demonic tutor, 1 vampiric tutor, and 1 darkblast.... with tutors in your deck you get much better consistency, even if you are running 4 ofs, running 6 ofs is better. Darkblast solves what you were looking for from funeral charm, except its reusable, and with tutors your runnign 3 of it essentially.... same with mindtwist which can be an auto win in some matches combod with wretch, duress, or fiend.

then, again,  to revamp the board, id switch the planar voids for leylines, and get rid of dystopia for something better in more matchups, cant think of anything right now... but when i do ill edit

[Discozombie]

First I want to thank everyone for posting.  I really do appreciate the comments. 
I still believe that a mono black aggro/controlish deck or a simple aggro disruptor deck can work in any environment. 

I have tried as much as I can to have threats that actually do things too.   I love planar void and leyline but against an opponent how has no recursion or yard targetability they are dead cards.  Wretch and the nezumi can at least beat. 

I am not a fan of unmask for a deck like this.  Unmask is for fast, fast combo or decks with a turbo draw engine.  This deck is neither and really cannot afford to be pitching that many cards. 

I guess I really shouldn't be calling this deck suicide since it plays like more a black fish.  It is not a "stumble and humble" deck were you are trying to keep them off balance while you ram a gator down their throat.  this was an attempt at a mono black with an ability to handle somethings after they have happened as opposed to suicide's usually proactive nature.
this is more of a "think and plink" kind of deck where you are able to actually deal with your opponents plays
I had considered just taking a standard sui framework and subing out some of the disruption for more "modern" equivilants.

Lets start with old school fleshreaver.dec ala JP Meyer (screw Legend's crap!  pollutedmire4life!)

Creatures (19)

4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Sacrcomancy
4 Carnophage
3 Hypnotic spectre
4 Fleshreaver

Disruption (17)

4 Duress
4 Hymn
4 Sinkhole
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine

Find (2)

1 Tutor
1 Consult

Mana (22)

1 Lotus
1 Jet
4 Ritual
16 Swamps

I guess the first changes would have to be in the creatures.

hyppie seems too slow

gator and reaver often find too many other creatures in their way. 

Carno and sarco are much malinged due to Legend and his dislike of them.  If you are running gator I think you almost need them.  sarco is a two for one for feeding gator and can be fun against stax.

Shade seems like an auto include now.   

Wretch seems too good also graveyard hate on a stick.

And Confidant is again the mini necro on a stick though sometimes I would like him to simply be a big beater but draw is the tech eh...

I want the last slot again to be a tech critter of somekind. either Mesmeric Fiend or something else like that.  Or it could just be a big fat Negator...

So how about this

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Withered Wretch
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mesmeric Fiend

the disruption package needs an update too

duress, still good.

hymn, good but I don't know if it is optimal

sinkhole., good but again there are better toys now.

I love Null Rod but often think that pithing needle has more tech and is dead against nothing.

Planar Void I guess could be maindecked

so how about this

4 Duress
4 Chalice of the void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Planar Void

Tutor and Consult we keep of course.  And might actually drop the lotus and mox to avoid interaction with the rods and CotV (plus I am budget for life!)

4 Waste
1 Strip
4 Dark Ritual
17 Swamps

Ok something like this instead?


4 Nantuko Shade
4 Withered Wretch
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mesmeric Fiend

4 Duress
4 Chalice of the void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Planar Void

4 Waste
1 Strip

1 Tutor
1 Consult

4 Dark Ritual
17 Swamps

Sideboard

4 Null Rod
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dystopia

More conventional.  Less reactive.  More proactive.  Thoughts? 

Again thanks for everyone's posts.

[houseplant]

I love crucible in a deck like this. but for crucible you'll need some fetchlands, I'd say bloodstaind mines so you can still name polluted delta with needle.

but even just fetch ritual crucible first turm makes it so you'll never miss a land drop, and you are already running waste land and strip