And now for something completely different

[OfficeShredder]

I was looking through some cards trying to make a super-casual astral slide deck (complete with multi-player cards like sizzle  :lol: ) when I somehow convinced myself that an aggro control mono-green deck could work.  Well, most of the convincing came from the fact I could call it janky stompy, and make a deck called skanky.  It's lost most of the stompy part of it since then, but whatever.  Basically, the idea is to get a soft lock with the artifacts and land destruction, using the enchantresses as a draw engine So here's the deck:

Skanky: The Four Thousand Penny Solution

4 Llanowar Elves
3 Argothian Enchantresses

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Winter Orb
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Wild Growth
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Whipsilk
3 Words of Wilding
1 Sylvan Library

3 Naturalize
4 Land Grant

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
11 Forests

I haven't done extensive playtesting (only tried it out against uba mask, keeper, and sligh; not the best field), but  it basically got overrun by sligh, took about 1/3 of the keeper games, and went 60-40 with uba mask (much to my surprise).  While I didn't test it against a combo deck, I'm pretty confident it will lose; the spheres are a last minute "I'm gonna beat long" addition, but they probably won't come out fast enough anyway     Overall, I felt it did pretty well considering it doesn't have a whole lot of thought put into it (yet...).  The major weakness is obviously the lack of on the table control; it can deal with lands effectively, but other stuff not so much.  I was thinking about splashing a second color, maybe white, to deal with the problem.  The other problem is that it kind of locks itself too.  Sphere of resistance and winter orb aren't the most synergistic cards with the whipsilk draw combo.

Comments, questions, etc. would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[AmbivalentDuck]

Mox Emerald and Black Lotus

[OfficeShredder]

Mox Emerald isn't exactly 4,000 pennies  :lol:

Obviously if I'm proxying I'm going to be running a different deck, the idea here is to make something a bit more budget (although if it turns into something good, I could save my money for a while and go in for a power card maybe).  Although I could do with a mox emerald and/or chrome mox for now.... I usually have either dead lands or dead cards in my hand

[netherspirit]

Do you have a sideboard? This deck wants Choke, maybe even as a maindeck addition.

EDIT: Null Rod could be pretty good beings you're not playing any mana artifacts.

[Pomaxx]

i used to play a similar deck i once created to beat belcher for fun during testing periods. i may throw it toghether, but i would like to recommend you 2 cards that did me well.

first of all: root maze
slows down, hurts opponent usually more than yourself and does well with your soft lock cards. cantrips with argothian enchantress. i dont like winter orb at all
(i also included null rod to stop fast artifact mana)

hidden gibbons also do cantrip under argotian (i played 4) and may provide a nice clock your deck lacks (concentrating on locking is tough)

[Methuselahn]

first of all: root maze
slows down, hurts opponent usually more than yourself and does well with your soft lock cards. cantrips with argothian enchantress. i dont like winter orb at all
(i also included null rod to stop fast artifact mana)

Further, and maybe most importantly, Root Maze will make your opponent's Fetchlands come into play tapped.  Possibly making them easy pickings for your Crucible plan.

Btw, "And now for something completely different" is a cute thread title.  Completely non-descriptive, but hilarious nonetheless.

[OfficeShredder]

I like the root maze idea, and will test taking the winter orbs out for them.  The winter orbs were in there to deal with control, and because a forest with three wild growths on it is an awesome land to use with winter orb.  Until it gets strip mined at least.  The one thing that I'm leery about with root maze is it slows down my crucible of the worlds if I have it with a single wasteland (which combos with winter orb actually), I'll have to see how that goes in testing.  I'll also try dropping a sphere of resistance and a chalice of the void for two null rods.  What would you suggest I take out for the hidden gibbons though?


A little off topic, but Is there a good way to draw cards using elves (or creatures in general)?  I was flipping around for more possible cards, and decided if there was, I could use that with concordant crossroads and vitalize with mana elves for some incredibly ghetto storm wins  :lol:

[AmbivalentDuck]

Skullclamp and/or Glimpse of Nature

[netherspirit]

Why no Elvish Spirit Guides? Surely they're an auto-include.

[Evol daN]

I like the way Methuselahn is thinking Rootmaze + Waste is good. But don’t cut the Winter Orb, it is amazing against the mana hungry decks. The only thing missing is Null Rod.

Does anyone think Null Rod > Naturalize?

I also love the Gibbons… They are a clock!!!

I am just wondering why you are playing 3 enchantresses and 4 enchantresses presence. The creature is cheaper and untargetable.

You might have forgotten Fastbond. and i am also wondering if you really need the whipsilk... especially if you include rootmaze.

I love the concept and would try
null rod, root maze, fastbond, Hidden Gibbons, living wish

[hauntedechos]

I'm sorry for this off topic post.  But the name of the thread led me to belive that I should post an idea I have been working on, rather than post a new thread.  I've been working on a deck concept that can incorporate a few win conditions.  These win conditions are based on one engine but achive a)decking your oponent b)infinate life and c)infinate damage. With the banning of Diciple Of The Vault, I was forced to use Tendrils as the damage win condition.

without further delay, I give to you  The Revolver.


combo pieces:
x4 Myr Retriver
x3 Ashnods Alter ( chosen over KCI because of the 1cc difference, in spite of KCI utilizing all artifacts)
x4 Tendrils (Brainfreeze , Leonin Elder are the sidable choices unless you decide to go one route and save SB slots for utility/answers)

Control:
x4 FOW
x4Mana Drain
x2Echoing Truth
x4Duress


Utility:
x1Ancestral Recall
x1TimeWalk
x1Demonic Tutor
x1Vampiric Tutor
x1Mystical Tutor
X1Merchant Scroll
x4 Brainstorm
x1BurningWish
x1Pyroclasm


Mana Acceleration:
X1Mox Saph
x1Mox Jet
x1Mox Ruby
X1B.Lotus

SB:
x1MisD
x2Tormods crypt
x1Pyroclasm
The rest has not been settled on or even seriously worked on because of the testing I'm currently trying to accomplish with the MD.


Of course this is another drain deck that wants to combo out as fast as possible.  It utilizes HEAVY control elements as I'm a paranoid player when it comes to the playing of combo. 

The control element:

x4 Duress - I've seen it said time and time again, that Duress is a pro-active counter.  I've used it time and time again as such, and I cannot say enough how much it makes me giggle to force out a players force or drain in responce to a Duress.

x4FoW- No comment
X4Drains- No Comment
x2Echoing Truth - I play in an Oath / Fish heavy Environment. As such if I'm not playing Fish myself, I don't like Chalice hitting play.

The Draw element:

why all the damn tutors?  well I value tutor power as much as I value Brainstorms hide and seek ablility.  I also figure that once the SB is honed, I'll have silver bullets that will need to be plucked out from the deck.  Also, because of the combo concept, I need between 7-9 copies of the pieces to give it some solidiy
in fact I recently cut Entomb as a Myr Tutor.


So whats next?:

More tourny play of course.  Further development from feed back from great minds at work here on TMD.  Looking into adding Thirsts due to the high artifact count x4 of which are supposed to be in the G/Y anyways ( well x1 copy I mean ). They may thin the tutor count / replace Brainstorms.

In the Oath match-up, i've found that the heavy control / permission play almost kept the Oath player from ever doing anything constructve.  With no real drain targets, I fall back on the Duress / FOW / Echoing Truth.  (as a side note, this deck used to run W over R with red being a splash for Burning Wish and the SB silver bullets.  This gave me access to Balance, StP and Seal Of Cleansing - any comments on that would be greatly appreciated).  Of course DSC is a non-issue because the worst place for him is in the Oath players hand.  As for SSS, I haven't yet had to play against that.

In the Fish Match-up, I've found that the control elements allow me to play around the disruption of Fish in most of it's incarnations.  WTF giving me the most trouble as it is quite capable of pumping it beaters around a Pyroclasm.  The bounce in the deck allows me to get around the Chalice issue. and Rootwater is a must counter/deal with issue.  Again Duress when on the play allows me to "fish" out the vial/chalice issue. if it hits, the mid game bounce /his FOW /my Drain and go off makes me feel a little more confident in the match-up as well.

The majority of the rest of the decks are rogue, and a few people trying to play Sui-HD decks.  I had a player trying to work Squirrels Nest in a tourny last year, which was funny.  Though not as funny as the guy who ran Tooth n Nail :lol:  The local environment I play in is worse still with Elf Decks and Goblins around and random budget aggro attemps.  You may recall that I am the poster of the U/W Vial Chalice fish that runs un-powered.  This deck is a 10 proxy environment deck as you all may known I own none and the drains are borrowed.

well thats the idea guys, have fun with it, rip it to shreds and put it down as long as there is something of substance in the reply's that allow me to build on this idea.

Thanks
Haunted.

[Dakkon]

@hauntedechos: I believe that list deserved another thread, especially since you put enough information in to start a whole new discussion.

And if/when you make a new thread for this, add the mana base, sol ring, mana crypt, and maybe even mana vault. Since your combo is colorless those might help.
       

[OfficeShredder]

I like the way Methuselahn is thinking Rootmaze + Waste is good. But don’t cut the Winter Orb, it is amazing against the mana hungry decks. The only thing missing is Null Rod.

Yeah, I like winter orb too to be honest.  There's nothing more satisfying than a pair of sphere of resistances and a winter orb with a chalice at 0 locking out uba stax

Does anyone think Null Rod > Naturalize?

That's so obvious, it's brilliant.  I didn't want to cut naturalize because I wouldn't have a way to deal with artifacts... but obviously null rod takes care of that.  I feel a little dumb for not thinking of it myself

I also love the Gibbons… They are a clock!!!

Now I'm regretting trading away my foil gibbons all those years ago.....  :lol:

I am just wondering why you are playing 3 enchantresses and 4 enchantresses presence. The creature is cheaper and untargetable.

Mostly because enchantresses presences draw off each other.  I'll try switching one of each

You might have forgotten Fastbond. and i am also wondering if you really need the whipsilk... especially if you include rootmaze.

I didn't forget fastbond, I just didn't think I had enough lands to make it worth it.  But earlier today I decided to put it in actually.  The whipsilk is probably coming out, because I found I had trouble casting it, since it can't hit the enchantresses anyway. 

The matchups that still don't look so hot are combo, because they can combo before my null rods hit the table (although chalice and root maze could do the trick), and aggro, because, well, there's nothing to stop aggro.

I have to go, I'll post my new decklist tomorrow

[OfficeShredder]

The new decklist:

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Argothian Enchantresses

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Winter Orb
3 Null Rod
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Wild Growth
3 Enchantress's Presence
4 Hidden Gibbons
4 Root Maze
3 Words of Wilding
1 Sylvan Library
1 Fastbond

4 Land Grant

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
10 Forests

What's nice about this is the hidden gibbons give me alternative win conditions against control in case the words of wilding get screwed by hide/seek or they all get countered or something (as opposed to Llanowar beats.... but damn, they can go the distance).  The deck still keels over to aggro, but against combo the match looks a lot better now.  But I I make my sideboard anti-aggro, I'll probably get slapped games 2 and 3 against a lot of decks, since they can all bring in artifact hate.  I'm thinking about putting a zurab orb in to buy time (although with the land count, it's a sketchy choice).  I love the wishes in general (and usually put too many in my decks), but I'm not sure how living wish can fit in here.  First, I'm loathe to take any cards out... I'm already running few enough lands, and basically every card in the deck helps make it tick.  And I don't know enough green creatures that can act as silver bullets to make it worth it (though I'm sure they exist, if you guys post some good stuff maybe I'll fit the wish in).  So let's also move on to the sideboard

Choke - This is very similiar to winter orb, but much more one sided.  I'd probably want to side in three for the winter orbs against heavy blue decks, especially since it's an enchantment.  With 9 ways to get 3 mana on turn two, it's probably not coming out any slower from my opening hand, and I usually don't drop winter orb that fast anyway.

Moment's Peace - I really don't know how to beat aggro.... maybe I can just side in twelve 2/1 and 2/2 creatures that cost one green and see how it goes, but that would really kill my sideboard against other decks.  Although, going back to the artifact hate, I could just drop all the artifacts out of the deck and make it into stompy for game two.

Regrowth - It's a way to get back words of wilding if it gets countered.  Perhaps I should put it maindeck

Scragnoth - Counter that blue decks! (I guess this would be a living wish target game one)

Leyline of the Void - potential long hoser

Naturalize - It still kills karn, something null rod doesn't do (wait, I can block karn..).  Well, it kills enchantments.  Absolutely key for the mirror match :p  I'll need this to hit chalice for 3.  Maybe I should put elvish scrapper in instead, so I have more beatdown too.  But this hits future sight and animate dead, so it still can be useful.  Plus, it can hit a chalice for 1, which does hurt the deck, though not as much as a chalice for 3

What else is good for green?  I should just sort through all my cards again and look for more green cards



Netherspirit, I didn't put ESG in the deck because I felt the card disadvantage would hurt too much for just one mana, which I can't do a lot with anyway

EDIT: Maybe Still Life?

[Purple Hat]

this seems as relevant a place as any to ask this question.  Why doesn't anyone play that green timewalk that's dependant on your opponent playing a blue spell?  since you can basically safely assume your opponent is playing blue, isn't playing 4x timewalk generally pretty good?

[Harlequin]

The card name your looking for is Seed Time I believe (maybe Time Seed?)  Its definately a neat card, and for a while I considered playing it janky green decks I was working on at the time.  Green certainly has some really neat "off color" abilites namely: Seed Time, Bind and Avoid Fate.  Sylvan Library seems a bit off-color too and is amazing IMO.

[OfficeShredder]

Seedtime, just one word.  Excellent card, definitely at least sideboard material for the deck.

I'm thinking about adding tangle wires (they help stop beatdown, and combo with winter orb for sure).  Unfortunately, it's really tough to choose what to take out

[LotusHead]

Words of War would be worth a splash of 1 Taiga.  If you would draw a card, pwn a Bob/Welder/Opponent.  Maybe some fetches.  Helps with Sylvan Library.

[Justin]

Where is Life from the Loam? If youre running rootmaze, null rod, & strips you should definitely check out life from the loam. I also ran Ghost quarters in my build to capitalize on the mana denial.

[silvernail]

I would consider adding white to the deck. It has all kinds of neat enchantments like, Worship, Rule of Law, Solitary Confinement, Testament of Faith, Energy Storm ( anti tendrils), Pacifism, Peace of Mind,Seal of Cleansing,supression field, words of worship and a billion other possiblites. Oh and Auratog

Unless you add the Ghost Quarters, Id probably cut the CoW for more Sylvan Libraries.Also adding Hidden Herds would be pretty useful, or maybe even Hidden Ancients.Another card to consider is Verdan Enchantress. She gets +2/+2 for each enchantment or something like that.

Blue offers things like Arcane Labrotory, Standstill,Seal of Removal,Counterbalance, In the Eye of Chaos, as well as many non enchantment things.

[OfficeShredder]

She gets +2/+2 for each enchantment or something like that.

Yavimaya enchantress gets +1/+1 for each enchantment.  I might take the hidden gibbons out for it, I'm not sure.  Enchantress doesn't let me draw cards though (although it does stop aggro).  I can't remember the name of it, buit there's an enchantment for GW that makes enchantments untargettable, and has 1, sacrifice an enchantment: search your library for an enchantment and put it into your hand.  I have a couple of them in my room.  White is a nice add to the deck I think; I'm not sure how sold on blue though.

Words of worship with sylvan library is tech!  Blue gives me words of wind, which is also tech though. It's tough

[silvernail]

Well if you look at the various cards I listed, white is probably your best bet, however blue has some ok stuff too.

Id try something like this maybe::

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Argothian Enchantresses

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Winter Orb
3 Null Rod
3 Crucible of Worlds Unless you add ghost quarters they feel like a wasted slot, so I added 3 more enchantments instead
4 Wild Growth
3 Enchantress's Presence
4 Hidden Herd these are better than Gibbons usually
4 Root Maze
3 Words of Wilding
2 word of worship
2 Sylvan Library
1 Fastbond

4 Land Grant

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
6 Forests

SB:
3 Ghost Prison
2 worship
3 Seal of Cleansing
3 Choke
4 Swords to Plowshares

just some possible options for the sideboard, which is where the addition of white would probably help the most.

No huge changes to the main deck, since I dont know what to cut :-\, but white offers alot ot consider anyway.

[OfficeShredder]

Sterling Grove! That was the card I was thinking of.  Worship + argothian enchantress = game over against a lot of aggro decks, so that's nice (especially with a sterling grove in play... that's a lot of untargettability to get through, especially if I can find more sterling groves whenever it gets destroyed).  I'm also thinking golden wishes might be good, since they beat jester's cap type effects and grab me that worship game one.  I'll test the new deck and see what can get cut for golden wish, or if golden wish just isn't worth it

[Thegreatgonzo]

@silvernail : energy storm is useless against tendrils, because tendrils is not about damage, it's about loss of life (yes, tendrils is that broken )

I agree sterling grove is nice here. Also landtax could find a place in this deck, if you manage to play with enough basics. At the very least, it helps you to shuffle the useless cards you saw from sylvan library.

Ancestral mask is something to consider, as it should make your aggro matchup easier.
Also, night soil can be quite narrow, but once it's on the board, it wrecks ichorid no matter what.
Just my two cents, good luck with your deck

[Harlequin]

Any thoughts about Serra's Sanctum?  If you need Tendrils help, you could go with Solitary Confinement or Ivory Mask. 

[Evol daN]

Wow there seems to be a great deal of interest in this deck from many different levels of posters… great thread Shredder!

As usual I feel the need to be particular.


… on the difference between Hidden Herd and Hidden Gibbons… it all depends on how much you fear Stax, as this is the only match that will not play instants constantly. Is the reduction of a 4/4 to a 3/3 worth it against Fish where it means chumping vs killing a Jotun Grunt? I do not know your meta so I cannot judge.

… I think those who suggested the removal of crucible like crack… you know rock cocaine? Further, Life from the Loam is suicide with this deck, but these are just my opinions, and we all know I suck since I like Parfait. But back on subject, Life from the Loam might not suck that bad if replenish was in the deck… but OMG that is mana intense, OMG

Crucible + strip effect + Rootmaze + Winter orb = slow
Life + strip effect + Rootmaze + Winter orb = agonizingly slow since I cannot cast/do anything else.

This is where Ghost Quarter is very alluring to me. I realize that if you have Winter Orb and Root Maze in play… this is quite a stretch… then the search for a basic land does not matter… it comes in tapped and does not untap, plus most decks only run around four basics anyway.


... Let me ask you this Shredder, and the rest of the community. How good is gaining five life? To rephrase, how good is Words of Worship? IMO it is bad in this deck because his drawing engine is going to be quite slow to non existent. Therefore, using life gain of this kind to try and counteract aggro means this… I draw no card and gain 5 life and pass the turn… my opponent draws a card and I get beat for 5… this is a losing strategy at best and a disaster in most cases!

… It seems that you like the idea of splashing a color, and maybe not just for the SB. How would the addition of fetchlands to a deck running 4 rootmaze fair? Answer: Terrible! However, Lotushead hit a great card, Words of War! WoW is a win condition and tough defense against the beats.

Just by looking at the deck I can tell that your strong match will be mana hungry Drain decks.

You are going to have trouble against Stax and a terrible time against Fish and ToA. So what color or colors hose these, and how do they interact with your deck style?

Well White is the more obvious choice… it gives you Chant, Abeyance, Seal of Cleansing, Sacred Ground, solitary confinement, and STP. Did I miss any obvious ones? For the main it delivers the S.Grove which looks nice but is a mana hungry strategy.

Red gives you Rack and Ruin, Meltdown, Tin Street Huligan, Gorrilla Shaman, Hearth Kami, Pyroclasm, Pyrostatic Pillar, Red Elemental Blast, Earthquake, Burning Wish, Lava Dart, and Mogg Fantastic(fanatic). Did I miss any? Most of these fit in the main. LET ME STRESS PYRO PILLAR!

Arifacts can also help you out. Sphere of resistance, Tangle Wire and Bridge.

I definitely see the merit in White, but strongly support Red.

[OfficeShredder]

If I drop pyrostatic pillar with words of wilding in play, I get 2/2's that my opponent can't kill without being damaged.  Nice synergy!  Earthquake and pyroclasm kill my argothian's, that would be a good reason to play four presences definitely.  If I go red I can also use seal of fire; it can kill a creature or shoot for two on its own, but also draws me cards (good if I go with 4 presence + 4 argothian definitely).  The main problem in general with the deck is either I have too much mana (tough with only 9 forests) and nothing to do with it, or I'm mana starved with a winter orb in play.  I could go R/G/W and be cool like that; it would give me more stuff to do with my mana.  How that works with winter orb though I'm not sure.  More playtesting is definitely called for.  I'm also thinking about blue, with words of wind it gives that cool old extended combo where you bounce all your opponents permanents with a wild growth

[Evol daN]

The sheer power of an enchantment in your deck that kills your opponent without using your mana is incredible. Pyro pillar is an amazing possibility. Remember Lotushead's suggestion... Words of War.

But remember that fetchlands are strictly terrible with Rootmaze and most are in agreement that Rootmaze is godlike. I am alluding to the fact that 3 colors will be nearly impossible to pull off well.

The suggestion of pyroclasm or earthquake are simply board possibilities that mop up fish...

i might also suggest testing the deck without Land Grant so... -4 grant +2 lands +1 WoWar +1Pyro Pillar and find more Pillar spaces elsewhere.

Like i said great ideas lets keep it up all... Shredder throw up a revised list when you get a chance!

Evol

[OfficeShredder]

Land grant + sylvan library = brainstorm + fetchland, so I don't really want to cut them

[silvernail]

The various "Words of" enchantments are good because of card draws off casting enchantments.

Also white and blue offer Ghost Prison / Propaganda, or Elephant Grass in green can help slow aggro decks up.