Magic circa 1995

[emidln]

Has anyone else had problems after casting multiple Contract from Belows in a single turn? Specifically, along the lines of freezing?

[Mr. Nightmare]

Nope, and I've cast over 100 in a single turn.

[zeus-online]

I've had similar problems after doing alot of actions, usually it triggers on you clicking mutiple times on the same action...So be patient!

/Zeus

[OfficeShredder]

The Hive is kind of killer... I was in an epic game with a moat put down at 2 life staring down five creatures... I started building up a token army, but stupid giant spiders and birds of paradise with giant growths were slowing me down, so I just built up a 10+ token army.  The computer must have had a dozen or so creatures too, and it just forgot my tokens could fly, and wouldn't let them attack over moat.  And that was my first game with white splashed into my control deck too (psionic blast+timetwister = win)

[Harlequin]

I'm having a hell of a time trying to add duel lands and non-basics to my deck.  I'm reasonable sure I own them... but I can't see them.

I have a sneaking susspision that my Edit Deck fuctionality may be broken.  No mater how I toggle those button things at the bottom, the green bar underneath that always has nothing in it.  The only way I can edit my deck is to use the "add all of a color" feature and drag away the cards I don't want.

Any Ideas how to repair my deck editor and/or am I completely missing something

[President Skroob]

Has anyone else had a problem with cards showing up in their deck that are not supposed to be there?

I started a new Shandalar game with black as my color. As soon as I got to a town, I immediately removed the lame green splash and reduced it to completely mono-black. Immediately, however, I started having problems. I was getting Swamps, Plains, Forests, and Mountains in my opening hand and for draws. In fact, I was drawing nothing EXCEPT off-color lands (as well as the three Amulets of Kroog that I started with... yeah, those are gone...). I had the same problem in my previous game where I was playing BU in Shandalar, but after a bit I stopped drawing the Plains and was drawing only things in my deck. After 10 or so lost matches with the black deck, though, I still consistently have terrible opening hands and draws that are chock full of lands that aren't supposed to be in my deck. I check it repeatedly at towns, even going so far as to remove every card from the deck and then put them back, but I still get the same results. Mountains, Forest, and Plains, oh my!

It's really frustrating. Anybody have a similar experience or, better yet, a solution?


EDIT: To the above poster. To buy a card, first left-click it with your mouse. Then press Y. You can't see the prompt, but there's actually something saying "Buy this card? Y/N"

[Nefarias]

I started a new Shandalar game with black as my color. As soon as I got to a town, I immediately removed the lame green splash and reduced it to completely mono-black. Immediately, however, I started having problems. I was getting Swamps, Plains, Forests, and Mountains in my opening hand and for draws. In fact, I was drawing nothing EXCEPT off-color lands (as well as the three Amulets of Kroog that I started with... yeah, those are gone...). I had the same problem in my previous game where I was playing BU in Shandalar, but after a bit I stopped drawing the Plains and was drawing only things in my deck. After 10 or so lost matches with the black deck, though, I still consistently have terrible opening hands and draws that are chock full of lands that aren't supposed to be in my deck. I check it repeatedly at towns, even going so far as to remove every card from the deck and then put them back, but I still get the same results. Mountains, Forest, and Plains, oh my!

If your deck isn't 40 cards, the game will add random ones from your collection to make it 40. I think sometimes card that you win off ante randomly appear in your deck for no apparent reason, though they don't display when you use the Edit Deck function in town.

[President Skroob]

Yes! It was the problem of being less than 40 cards!

Thanks!

[EnialisLiadon]

MWC is so busted--especially in the campaign mode.  LoA, Factories, Strips, Moats, StPs, Disenchants, Balance, Ivory Tower, Vise, Serras and Thunder Spirits was insane against creature-decks.  Takes an ASS long time to kill Arkazon, though.

[Pathian]

Strange, Shandalar came up as a part of a dinner conversation while we were playing Type 4 after the last Meandeck Open in Columbus. Paul Mastriano said that one of his favorite decks went something along the lines of

15x Black Lotus
45x Ancestral Recall

Combo out turn 1 for the win

[Jacob Orlove]

Doesn't that usually freeze? I guess if you don't float mana, you could get a hand with enough lotuses and ancestrals to deck them by nines.

[Necrologia]

Doesn't that usually freeze? I guess if you don't float mana, you could get a hand with enough lotuses and ancestrals to deck them by nines.

Yeah, from my experience the game crashes if you float too much mana, Timetwister too many times in 1 turn, or give the opponent too many cards. I'm sure there are other things that make it crash too. Sadly, crashing the game is the only thing that balances combo. It's completely unbeatable otherwise.

[Harlequin]

I figgured out my deck editing problems!! and the solution is super shady.

Essentially I got the instructions from another thread to go into the deck editor and high C+A+Del to open the task manager and start ending any process that works with your mouce or other control devices.  Some ppl blame some Logictech processes, but for me it was my Nostromo Speed Pad softwere.  So I just ended the nLoad something or other process when I play Shandalar and BOOM my deck editor works great! 

just FYI for anyone haveing a similar problem

[EnialisLiadon]

I wanted a way to take infinite turns with Timewister and Time Walk without crashing the game, and I kind of found a way with the deck I posted earlier.  If you can get your library-size extremely small, you'll draw regrowth and walk with every twister.  Then you only need to cast it once a turn.

But I also play with current resitricted list minus strip mine, though.

[zeus-online]

Urh making an infinite time walk deck is ridiculesly easy, just try out:

4 Mox sapphire
4 Mox jet
4 Mox emerald
4 Mox pearl
4 Mox ruby
4 Sol ring
4 Black lotus

4 Regrowth
4 Demonic tutor
4 Time walk

4 Timetwister
4 Wheel of fortune
4 Ancestral recall

1 Fireball
And then add some lands. Its a turn 1 kill like....80-95% of the time.

/Zeus

[seymourws]

One of the more fun decks that I have made on Shandalar is something that I called Kobold Long.

Deck - Kobold Long

Land-12
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 City of Brass

Instants - 8
4 Ancesteral Recall
4 Dark Ritual

Sorceries - 11
4 Wheel of Fortune
4 Timetwister
1 Fireball
1 Disentegrate
1 Demonic Tutor

Creatures - 16
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Ornithopter

Artifacts - 13
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Ashnod's Alter

The deck is pretty funny to actually play.  If you try to keep the combo going it will eventually crash, but I think the problem is from Timetwister and not floating mana as I've had over 100 mana floated at a few different points.  Because of 16 0 drop creatures you can generally stay alive long enough to combo out your opponent.  The only problem is that the deck can randomly fizzle after you've been going off for a while, like when I used to sac all my kobolds then time twist them all back in and draw 7 kobolds and proceed to burn for 80.  I'll post some other random decks I have when I get back from the ptq 

[Matt]

My favorite kill for the end guy was get out a Juggernaut and loop twisters to recur Berserk like eight times and attack for one 500 point attack

[pyr0ma5ta]

Urh making an infinite time walk deck is ridiculesly easy, just try out:

4 Mox sapphire
4 Mox jet
4 Mox emerald
4 Mox pearl
4 Mox ruby
4 Sol ring
4 Black lotus

4 Regrowth
4 Demonic tutor
4 Time walk

4 Timetwister
4 Wheel of fortune
4 Ancestral recall

1 Fireball
And then add some lands. Its a turn 1 kill like....80-95% of the time.

/Zeus

Play lands?  Who does that?  You want to T1 kill in a format with no FoW?

3 Black Lotus
3 Mox Sapphire
3 Mox Pearl
3 Mox Jet
3 Mox Emerald
3 Mox Ruby
3 Mana Crypt
3 Mana Vault

3 Dark Ritual
3 Channel

3 Wheel of Fortune
3 Contract from Below
3 Ancestral Recall
3 Timetwister

1 Fireball

I don't think I ever fizzled with this.

[Elric]

I downloaded this game from The Underdogs and while playing Shandalar, I was disappointed that the decks for the creatures have not been updated to reflect the cards from the expansions (Spells of the Ancients/Duels of the Planeswalkers).  No opponent ever played dual lands against me, or cast Juzam Djinn, Kird Ape, or Moat, for example.  Was this what happened in the original game if you had the expansion packs?  I seem to remember opponents having the expansion cards added to their decks if you had the expansion.  If not, does anyone know a way to fix this?  Thanks.

[President Skroob]

It was a good time going through Shandalar again. I played on Magician this time, but I might go again and try the hardest difficulty level.

I ended up beating the last guy with a formation of my favorite casual deck ever: BW Protection From Itself.  Original BW Protection From Itself had only stuff with protection, but without the Orders from Fallen Empires, I had to resort to other (IE better) cards.

The list was:

Lands
2x Plains
2x Swamp
5x Scrubland
4x Mishra's Factory
5x City of Brass
White
3x White Knight
1x Serra Angel
3x Savannah Lions
1x Balance
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Disenchant
Black
1x Sengir Vampire
3x Hypnotic Spectre
3x Erg Raiders
3x Black Knight
2x Oubliette
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Contract from Below
3x Dark Ritual
Artifacts
2x Triskelion
1x Mox Pearl
2x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring

Basically, no creature can deal with so many beats when they are fueled by Contract from Below. That last change I made to the deck was switching Terrors with Oubliettes, because I realized that at the point where I needed removal, I could support the double black and Oubliette can handle the things that Terror cannot. Now that I think about it, the Demonic Tutor should be a fifth Contract from Below, simply because there are so few times I actually fetched something I needed with the Demonic, and it would be better just to accelerate into a new hand and go broken again. I can't stress enough, of course, how incredibly huge and beastly Contract from Below is.  There were times that I was able to accelerate through two or even three hands, playing out everything aggressive off artifact mana and Dark Rituals, and just keep Contracting into additional gas. It's insane. Any deck in a format that supports the card and doesn't run black for it is probably going to be beaten by one that does. Also, I realized almost accidentally that Balance when Contract from Below is your last card is game over for the opponent if you've made any steps to prepare for it at all.

The last guy's deck is almost laughably bad. He has ungodly life (200 for me. I remember it was 100 on Apprentice difficulty. How much is it on the hardest?) but that just means that, once his starting hand is depleted, he has to just sit there and topdeck to try and save himself. The game plays out exactly like any other, it just takes longer to kill him, because once you've established board control he can't recover.

[OfficeShredder]

The last guy's deck is almost laughably bad. He has ungodly life (200 for me. I remember it was 100 on Apprentice difficulty. How much is it on the hardest?) but that just means that, once his starting hand is depleted, he has to just sit there and topdeck to try and save himself. The game plays out exactly like any other, it just takes longer to kill him, because once you've established board control he can't recover.

Do you know what's in his deck?  I never saw him play anything except for artifact mana (and given the incredible number of turns it took my U/W control deck to kill him, I'm impressed that's all I saw)

[President Skroob]

I got it. Here we go... This will be a long post:

Arkazon
Lands
6x Plains
6x Island
6x Swamp
6x Mountain
6x Forest
4x Gem Bazaar (that's the special Shandalar only land that produces a random color mana)
4x Mishra's Factory
White
2x Mesa Pegasus
2x Pikemen
2x Samite Healer
2x Savannah Lions
1x CoP: Artifacts
1x CoP: Black
1x CoP: Green
1x CoP: Blue
1x CoP: Red
1x CoP: White
2x Spirit Link
Blue
2x Zephyr Falcon
1x Time Walk
1x Timetwister
1x Braingeyser
2x Power Sink
1x Ancestral Recall
2x Siren's Call
Black
2x Erg Raiders
2x Will-O'-The-Wisp
2x Animate Dead
2x Paralyze
1x Mind Twist
2x Raise Dead
2x Howl from Beyond
Red
2x Hurr Jackal
2x Wall of Dust
2x Giant Strength
2x Immolation
1x Wheel of Fortune
2x Disintegrate
2x Pyrotechnics
2x Blood Lust
2x Lightning Bolt
Green
2x Elvish Archers
2x Grizzly Bears
1x Regrowth
2x Desert Twister
1x Berserk
2x Fog
2x Giant Growth
Artifacts
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
1x Aladdin's Ring
1x Black Mana Battery
1x Blue Mana Battery
2x Brass Man
1x Clockwork Avian
1x Clockwork Beast
1x Colossus of Sardia
1x Dancing Scimitar
1x Diabolic Machine
4x Fellwar Stone
1x Green Mana Battery
1x Grapeshot Catapult
1x Obsianus Golem
1x Shapeshifter
1x Tetravus
2x The Hive
1x Triskelion
1x Urza's Avenger
1x White Mana Battery
1x Red Mana Battery

137 cards.
It's horrible.

EDIT: Black Lotus is missing because he starts with it in play. He starts with a Celestial Prism, as well. I had a Disenchant in my opening hand, and I should have had the foresight to break it immediately. Without the Prism, he can't color fix and basically can do even less.

[Mr. Nightmare]

Play lands?  Who does that?  You want to T1 kill in a format with no FoW?

3 Black Lotus
3 Mox Sapphire
3 Mox Pearl
3 Mox Jet
3 Mox Emerald
3 Mox Ruby
3 Mana Crypt
3 Mana Vault

3 Dark Ritual
3 Channel

3 Wheel of Fortune
3 Contract from Below
3 Ancestral Recall
3 Timetwister

1 Fireball

I don't think I ever fizzled with this.

Except all the times you either Contracted and Ante'd your fireball, or D7'd into 7 mana sources.  I'll say it again, Having 10+ Contracts is the right choice, and if you do, you need to run Jeweled Bird to prevent you from anteing your win conditions.

[Harlequin]

Right now, I'm still in the early game, just running around fighting "Trash Mobs" and collecting the finishing touches on my deck.  I just got my 3rd Black lotus thanks to Shapeshifter hunting.  I'm still confined to 3 of each card in my deck though

I've been Rocking the Land Destruction:

3 Black Lotus
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Dark Ritual
3 Birds of Paradice
2 Llanowar elf

3 Stripmine
3 Sinkhole
3 Icestorm
2 Icy Manipulator
1 Desert Twister

2* Howling Mine (but OMG I really need 3!)
3 Black Vice
2 Contract from below
2 Storm Seeker
----------------
43 Cards

It basically mops the floor with anything on the normal map.  Tripple vice is totally insane!  Also belting off a turn 3 Storm seeker for 9 goes the distance in games when we only have like 13-20 life.

The AI in that game definately is confused about who controls what.  Like If I'm playing against "witch" and I activate my Icy Manipulator durring her upkeep it says something to the effect of "Witch controls Icy Manipulator"  or something wierd.  Also I would say the computer has about a 50% chance to cast Giant Growth targeting the right guy.  Like back when I was playing Transmuter Shop Agro (with Urza tron instead of shops)  Like the computer would attack with Savanah Lions into an untapped 1/3 Dragon engin.  Then after I put up my blocker... the computer would cast Giant Growth targeting the DRAGON ENGINE, and totally anihilate his own guy?  Is this like a simulated "Play Error" (and thus goes away as the "AI Skill" increases) or is it a glitch in AI?

[Mr. Nightmare]

Pretty sure it's an AI glitch, although the AI does start making better plays as the game progresses.  Not that it matters, since you build retardedly overpowered decks, but they try.

[OfficeShredder]

I never realized fireballing for 23 off a pair of mana flares could be so much fricking fun  :lol:

What's a good way to get a lot of extra unique cards (besides the dungeons obviously).  Sometimes I get them when my opponent lets me duplicate a card, sometimes I find them in those ruins with free cards.  Is there a fastest strategy to get them?

[Harlequin]

i was able to copy my Lotus by hunting for Shapeshifters.  They have a blue cape and black body and kinda horned head.  I usually look around near the water/swamps.

Does anyone have a list of what each major town has in the ways of Trading Amulets for cards?  I know there was a town that had "any artifacts for white amulets"  but I totally can't find it now.  Also is there anything special I have to do to trigger the "speek to wiseman" to become a trade option? 

[Mr. Nightmare]

To answer the last couple questions (God, I know so much about this game it's kind of sad):

@ OfficeShredder - I mentioned it somewhere in the thread I think, but Hunting for Sorcerers (Red creature, hooded with a yellow face), Shapeshifters (Blue Creature, girl wears a blue tunic, feather in headband), Mind Stealers (Black creature, black armor and blue cape), and Conjurers (Blue creature, blue hood with Yellow face) can get you the "Duplicate card of your choice" on occasion.  It's the best strategy to kill the Green and White castles ASAP, and leave the other three while you stock up on unique cards, making sure you keep the creatures from taking towns and questing for Mana Links. 

The other option is to save the game just outside a swamp ruin, and continually load the game and enter it until it cycles to you finding a unique card.  Then you save the game, find another swamp and repeat.  This is an effective, but time consuming and tedious method.

@ Harlequin - Each town that trades cards for amulets trades in its' zone's color (ie, green towns trade green amulets for X)  It's not a set pattern, so it won't be easy to chart. 

To get a "Wise man" in a town, you either have to have the town as a mana link, or complete a quest for the town.  Once you do, it takes time before another quest becomes available.  In the mean time, you can talk to wise men.

[President Skroob]

If you want to know what the named cities trade (not the nameless towns, they aren't listed), go to your world map and click on one of the buttons in the upper right, I think it's "Info," and it will tell you what is available at every city.


On the subject of deckmaking, I think that there is probably more power vested in a control game with access to the cards that you have access to. I created a version of UB PaleoStax modeled on Lochinvar's creation and it utterly annihilated everybody I used it on, but it took a long time to win. What I could accomplish in four or five turns with Protection from Itself took me much, much longer with PaleoStax, especially against the bigger enemies. I ended up just using Stax in the black castle, because Gloom is the sux. I was going to take it into the blue castle as well, but then I stepped inside and saw permanent Energy Flux. That called for a deck switch.

Some people here have noted that they are finding different limits on the number of multiple spell copies they can have in their deck. That's because of different difficulty levels and also one of the Worldmagics that I can't remember the name of that increases your maximum number of copies by one. Basically, the difficulties go up like this:

Apprentice: 5 copies allowed normally, 6 with the Worldmagic
Magician: 4 copies allowed normally, 5 with the Worldmagic
I'm not sure about the third difficulty level, but my guess is 4 copies and 5 with the Worldmagic
Sorcerer: 3 copies allowed normally, 4 with the Worldmagic

This actually changes deckmaking a good amount. It's incredible the kind of Workshop madness deck you can build with a 40 card minimum and 6 copies of Workshop. It's single-minded, but it brings the beats like almost nothing else.

[Mr. Nightmare]

Basically, the difficulties go up like this:

Apprentice: 5 copies allowed normally, 6 with the Worldmagic
Magician: 4 copies allowed normally, 5 with the Worldmagic
I'm not sure about the third difficulty level, but my guess is 4 copies and 5 with the Worldmagic
Sorcerer: 3 copies allowed normally, 4 with the Worldmagic

This actually changes deckmaking a good amount. It's incredible the kind of Workshop madness deck you can build with a 40 card minimum and 6 copies of Workshop. It's single-minded, but it brings the beats like almost nothing else.

This is actually incorrect.  In every difficulty, you can have infinite copies of a single card with the Tome of Enlightenment, as long as your deck contains a minimum of 60 cards.  When you can do this, there's really no value in cutting your deck to 40 cards.