Burning Belcher

[spindrift]

Speaking of Gamble, I have been working on a version that is more consistant on 2nd and 3rd turn, but still has the power to win on first turn. The problem that I always have with Belcher is running out of steam so fast and having a hard time trying to win after 2nd turn if things go wrong.

Here is my list so far and it is really fun to play, still lacks some consistancy though.

4 ESG
4 SSG

1 Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 LED
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

4 Rite of Flame
4 Land Grant
2 Taiga

4 Chomatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star

1 Channe

1 Burning Wish
1 Living Wish
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar

4 Gamble
4 [card]Goblin Lore[/card]

4 Goblin Welder (without it this deck fails fast)
4 Goblin Charbelcher


I really like the Burning Wish because I now have access to Y. Will, Empty the Warrens, Regrowth, tendrils, and anything else I think I may need.

[BreathWeapon]

4 Bloodfire Egg

Do you mean Shadowblood Egg? I don't see the point in cutting Rite of Flame for them, you just loose 2/3/4 red mana for one R to "gain" RB for 3.
I found the Taiga + Bayou necessary, as you won't win 100% of the time in the first turn.

Yes, the RB Egg, their point is obvious, the deck needs to be certain it has R and B mana if all it draws is artifact mana in order to cast its rituals and win condition. The deck avoids the second land and red rituals, because the deck is more consistent with one land and 8 filters. The Egg and Sphere don't cost a mana that often, most of the time they are just a free storm that will draw you into another mana source.

It's the fastest, most consistent and disruptive build of belcher out there, it just doesn't have a game plan passed turn 3.

[madmanmike25]

I'm really suprised that people are saying that Yawgmoth's Will isn't so hot in a combo deck that runs Black Lotus, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and the black tutors... Will has always been great for me, in my various builds of Belcher.  At worst it usually becomes a 'free' spell most of the time which means more storm and more tokens.

If anyone is seriously considering running more D7's, then Xantid Swarm is the way to go.  I still splash blue(in addition to black) in my build for Tinker, Recall, and Twister.  No complaints, Swarm is great protection if you are giving your opponent 7 cards as well.

@Spindrift
In regards to Gamble:  Let's face it, it is reliant on Goblin Welder or it is a janky (read: inconsistent) tutor.  Belcher doesn't need anymore randomness.  It is easier to get 4 mana and storm up some tokens, so I would only try out only 1 and keep EtW maindeck.  Otherwise you would have to look into sub-par cards like Trash for Treasure in addition to your 4 Welders.

[nataz]

I'm really suprised that people are saying that Yawgmoth's Will isn't so hot in a combo deck that runs Black Lotus, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and the black tutors... Will has always been great for me, in my various builds of Belcher.  At worst it usually becomes a 'free' spell most of the time which means more storm and more tokens.

Which lists run Cabal therp? Part of the issue in Will is that unlike dedicated ritual/tendrils decks, its hard to make mana + tutor with with will. It's obviously good with ETW, but with Belcher costing 7 to cast and activate, thats a lot more on the end of the chain of Will + Tutor. That being said, I still like will, but I don't think its the same as in other combo decks.

[A.-1.]

@nataz Did you mean Cabal Therapy or Cabal Ritual?
Cabal Ritual seems like a fine choice in some capacity in a Belcher build with black. Two to four Cabal Rituals in combination with the other cards that madmanmike25 mentioned allow for very hearty Yawgmoth's Wills. It is at worst +1 mana if you have one black up and possibly a mana fixer. And at its best it's a Seeting Song that costs one less.

[madmanmike25]

I will assume he meant Cabal RITUAL and not Cabal Therapy(correct me if I am mistaken).  This is the list I saw that ran Cabal Ritual.

This list has put up good results,

4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Empty the Warrens

1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence

4 Unmask

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

1 Yawgmoth's Will

4 Bloodfire Egg
4 Chromatic Sphere

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

4 SSG
4 ESG

4 Land Grant
1 Bayou

5 Moxen
1 Blotus
1 Petal
1 LED
1 Sol
1 Vault
1 Crypt

I think the black tutors are what the mostly red variants are missing.  This deck runs the 8 wins(Belcher/EtW) AND 4 tutors in addition to the Wheel of Fortune and Memory Jar.  This usually means fewer mulligans.  I love that fact that Demonic Tutor(for Lotus) adds 2 to storm and adds one mana of any color.  This list should be able to cast a Will as easily as a 'dedicated' ritual/tendrils deck.

I also love the synergy with VampTutor/Imp.Seal and the Chromatics/Eggs

@ Breathweapon:  What is your average storm count?  Do you ever have enough that you wish EtW was Tendrils?  How often? 

[BreathWeapon]

The average storm count is at least 5, not counting the additional card from the tutors or the spheres. I built it so it would generate a minimum of 10 tokens to put the opponent on a two turn clock, which is enough to race Gifts on the draw.

I've never wanted ETW to be Tendrils, the latter is worthless with out Yawgmoth's Will, which I cut as the 61st card.

[zeus-online]

The average storm count is at least 5, not counting the additional card from the tutors or the spheres. I built it so it would generate a minimum of 10 tokens to put the opponent on a two turn clock, which is enough to race Gifts on the draw.

I've never wanted ETW to be Tendrils, the latter is worthless with out Yawgmoth's Will, which I cut as the 61st card.

Quoted for truth.

/Zeus

Edit: Although once in a blue moon ToA would be usefull...just not often enough to actually be worth a slot.

[Wise]

I have been playtesting The R/G/u version of this deck and from my experiance there is often not enough draw or gass its all mana producers....

[policehq]

It sounds like you're keeping the wrong hands.

-hq

[nicofromtokyo]

I am still playing with Belcher, and bring it with me to the Vintage side Event of the PT Yokohama (2007/4/22). My list and a brief report:

2 lands RGB Belcher

//Mana//
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Black Lotus
1 LED
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
5 Moxen
4 Land Grant
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 SSG
4 ESG
3 Seething Song
4 Chromatic Star
1 Channel

//Tutors//
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic consultation

//Draw//
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune

//Kills//
4 Charbelcher
4 Empty the Warrens

//Protection//
4 Goblin Welder

SIDE
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Duress
2 Shatering Spree
2 Ancient Grundge
2 Pyroclasm
2 REB


ROUND 1, Gifts
1/ 10 Goblins on turn 2, he Tendrils me for 20 the next turn...
2/ 12 Goblins turn 1, he gets Echoing truth with Merchant, which I try to Duress > counterspell. Swing one time, but he resolves a Gifts at my eot...

ROUND 2, Control Ophidien
1/ Belcher kill turn 2.
2/ Belcher kill turn 1.

ROUND 3, random unpo
1/ Belcher kill turn 3
2/ 14 Goblins turn 2 ftw.

ROUND 4, Fish
1/ I keep a soo goog hand...if only I had a mana. My biggest mistake of the day, of course mana will never show up.
2/ Belcher kill turn 2.
3/ Mulligan, no fast kill, too much creatures...

ROUND 5, Oath.
1/ Mulligan to 5, Belcher countered, I loose.
2/ Belcher kill turn 1
3/ Belcher on turn 1 or 2, but he manages to play Null Rod just before I can tap my Mox and Crypt for the win...

ROUND 6, Stax
1/ Belcher kill turn 1 or 2
2/ I play Welder very fast, he plays 3sphere and CotV, that I switch eot to play Belcher next turn ftw.

3-3-0, not a so good result, but I really feel the deck to be very strong and resilient. The black is definitively necessary.
One point for Belcher against pitch Long or another combo deck, is that you don't end up the 6 rounds with a headache, as games usually doesn't last more than 15 minutes.