Ritual Gifts

[meadbert]

Meadbert - what type of player has been playing Ritual Gifts?  Pithing Needle is in the board against ichorid.  It doesn't appear you know Ritual Gifts very well.

Nobody around here plays Ritual Gifts.  I was two fisted tested so it is possible that I was playing it poorly.  I still stand by what I said.  Leyline of the Void almost certainly wins game 1 since Ritual Gifts cannot counter it and has no realistic way of goldfishing on turn three with Leyline out.

Chalice is less effective versus Ritual Gifts.  Unmask can be more effective.  Still these are speed bumps.

Any of the following are very likely to win a game versus Ritual Gifts in game 1:
1: Leyline of the Void
2: Turn 1 Unmask followed by turn 2 Therapy
3: Turn 1 Unmask,CHalice

Games where you only have Unmask or only have Chalice you are in a bad position to win.  Ritual Gifts should win the majority of these games.

Games where you have no relevent disruption you should get run over on turn 2/3.


Out of the board Pithing Needle is pretty good.  I was running a list I think you posted that had 0 Tormod's Crypt, 3 Pithing Needle and 1 Fire/Ice.  Fire/Ice is actually very good in Ritual Gifts versus Ichorid because it basically functions as a  Time Walk and that extra turn frequently makes the difference.

Duress is total trash versus Ichorid.  You make a good case for why it is good when you are on the play.  The problem is you should already have an overwhelming advantage in game two on the play anyway.  The relevent game is usually game three when Ichorid is on the play trying to play through hate.

[desolutionist]

Additionally, Sins vs. Recoup in conjunction with Gifts, there is no question, Recoup wins. If you really want to go the direction you're going, I would suggest -4 Sins +4 Recoup. A Gifts for Demonic Tutor, YawGmoth's Will, and two fast mana sources with Recoup in hand will win pretty much every time, whereas Gifting for the lethal Desire is very risky.

I would suggest doing the same if you like paying RUU7/RUU5 for Mind's Desires.  The real/only problem with Sins is inconsistency; it reminds me of playing 2-land Belcher. 

Out of curiosity, why not just play Long in that case then?

I really don't know why would you play Ritual Gifts over regular Gifts or regular Long to begin with.

*EDIT*

If you want more disruption you can probably cut like a land and a Sins for 2 more Duress.

[diopter]

Additionally, Sins vs. Recoup in conjunction with Gifts, there is no question, Recoup wins. If you really want to go the direction you're going, I would suggest -4 Sins +4 Recoup. A Gifts for Demonic Tutor, YawGmoth's Will, and two fast mana sources with Recoup in hand will win pretty much every time, whereas Gifting for the lethal Desire is very risky.

I would suggest doing the same if you like paying RUU7/RUU5 for Mind's Desires.  The real/only problem with Sins is inconsistency; it reminds me of playing 2-land Belcher. 

Gifting for Will with Recoup in hand is sUperior to Gifting for Desire with Sins in hand. No one is Recouping Desire.

I really don't know why would you play Ritual Gifts over regular Gifts or regular Long to begin with.

You can take the beatdown role way better than ManA Drain Gifts can. Long is faster, but less mana stable, and you play the more flexible Merchant Scroll instead of Grim Tutor.

[desolutionist]

Long is faster, but less mana stable, and you play the more flexible Merchant Scroll instead of Grim Tutor.

Wait, how does Long have an unstable mana base?  And how is Merchant Scroll more flexible than Grim Tutor?

[diopter]

Long is faster, but less mana stable, and you play the more flexible Merchant Scroll instead of Grim Tutor.

Wait, how does Long have an unstable mana base?  And how is Merchant Scroll more flexible than Grim Tutor?

Point the first:
- Ritual Gifts run more lands, hence it is more mana stable, relative to Long.

Point the second:
- Merchant Scroll costs 1U - you can play it with 2 basic lands, or a basic land and a Mox.
- GT costs 1BB, so you're either going to have to blow a Ritual to cast it, or find at least 2 lands (in a deck with 12 or less lands - see first point).
- Also, since all of the Long builds I've seen that run basic lands only run 1 Swamp pre-SB, if you need to cast GT off lands, you have to expose a nonbasic land to your opponent.
- Therefore, it is more difficult to use GT than to use Scroll to fetch answers when facing mana denial, making GT less flexible