The Thread for eBay and Magic information on Fakes, frauds, and scams

[CrashTest]

With Magic cards growing in prices, so are the amount of fakes and scams on the internet.

We can use this thread to post any suspicious auctions or even card scans. I am sure many people will be happy to help, I know I will as best as I can, as this is a topic I am very interested in. The more we can curtail fraudulent activity and fake cards, the better and healthier the market for Magic cards will be in the future.

Take a read through the Fake Black Lotus thread for some further information, and post here if you have any questions!

[CrashTest]

For starters, here is something that I would avoid. The card has a huge crease in it, which while not always indicating a failed bend test, surely points to that direction here given the very strange wear in the card itself. The crease also only seems visible on the back, a bad sign. (Coupled with the user's lower feedback, I would avoid auctions like this)

Beta Mox Ruby

[Hi-Val]

It would be helpful if someone could post about how to proactively protect yourself from fakes-- using a credit card on ebay, etc.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

Seller Warning: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmedvid1978QQhtZ-1

I just called this guy and talked to him for about 20 minutes. If this guy is selling real cards... sorry to all of you guys out there trying to rip someone off who doesn't know what he's doing. Basicially... I just questioned him a lot and he told me his story about how he got all of his cards. He had a bunch of little kids running around in the background and has a wife. I explained to him that people are going to think his cards are fake and he is going to lose thousands of dollars if he sells them how he is. I then told him he can do some simple things to make thousands of dollars more that he will otherwise lose. Buy a scanner and take high res scans of each card individually, or he can get them PSA certified. Both of these things would result in people actually thinking his cards are real. He still seemed VERY sketchy at times and seemed like he was still considering leaving the auction up as is. I continued to explain to him that he will lose something like $5000 - $10000 dollars or more if he leaves his auction up as is. I explained how sought after beta power is and how people make fakes and how people want to know what they are buying is real. He said he would consider pulling them off and relisting them. This is what I can conclude with a high level of certainty:

1) A married young couple with a couple of young kids would not want to throw away many thousands of dollars just by being lazy. I asked him if he did not like money or if he had a lot and didn't care- and he definitely said he does need money. If he does not relist his items, they are almost guaranteed to be fake.

2) He seemed like a reasonable and genuine guy most of the time. As such, if he relists his items with individual scans and/or gets them PSA graded, I would believe his cards are real.

DO NOT BUY THESE CARDS IF THEY ARE NOT RELISTED.



I sent him a follow up message and here was his reply:

"I really do appreciate your concern, but I really need to get what i can now. I have a very major family emergency that I had to go out of state for. I understand that I will probably lose a few thousand dollars, but I really can't wait till I get back to pull them, buy a scanner and then relist them. Due to family circumstances I need what money I can get right now. But thank you for your concern. I rally do appreciate the fact that you went out of your way for me."

I really want to believe him but unfortunately this all but confirms they are fake.

[CrashTest]

Using a credit card is good, as you can get fraud protection from your company.

       The best proactive measure is to purchase wisely though. This means research the seller in question, ask him about the card, anything to see how fast he responds. Ask for a bigger scan if possible.

             If someone is considering buying a card, they can also post here or PM me - I will be glad to take a look at the auction or scan of the card and give my analysis of it. There are a lot of scams around, but most eBay sellers are still legit.

[The Chosen One]

Seller Warning: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmedvid1978QQhtZ-1

I just called this guy and talked to him for about 20 minutes. If this guy is selling real cards... sorry to all of you guys out there trying to rip someone off who doesn't know what he's doing. Basicially... I just questioned him a lot and he told me his story about how he got all of his cards. He had a bunch of little kids running around in the background and has a wife. I explained to him that people are going to think his cards are fake and he is going to lose thousands of dollars if he sells them how he is. I then told him he can do some simple things to make thousands of dollars more that he will otherwise lose. Buy a scanner and take high res scans of each card individually, or he can get them PSA certified. Both of these things would result in people actually thinking his cards are real. He still seemed VERY sketchy at times and seemed like he was still considering leaving the auction up as is. I continued to explain to him that he will lose something like $5000 - $10000 dollars or more if he leaves his auction up as is. I explained how sought after beta power is and how people make fakes and how people want to know what they are buying is real. He said he would consider pulling them off and relisting them. This is what I can conclude with a high level of certainty:

1) A married young couple with a couple of young kids would not want to throw away many thousands of dollars just by being lazy. I asked him if he did not like money or if he had a lot and didn't care- and he definitely said he does need money. If he does not relist his items, they are almost guaranteed to be fake.

2) He seemed like a reasonable and genuine guy most of the time. As such, if he relists his items with individual scans and/or gets them PSA graded, I would believe his cards are real.

DO NOT BUY THESE CARDS IF THEY ARE NOT RELISTED.



I sent him a follow up message and here was his reply:

"I really do appreciate your concern, but I really need to get what i can now. I have a very major family emergency that I had to go out of state for. I understand that I will probably lose a few thousand dollars, but I really can't wait till I get back to pull them, buy a scanner and then relist them. Due to family circumstances I need what money I can get right now. But thank you for your concern. I rally do appreciate the fact that you went out of your way for me."

I really want to believe him but unfortunately this all but confirms they are fake.

and he lists the cards as unplayed? He has 6(?!) unplayed beta black lotus? Please!

[gotinput]

While Sitting down to check out ebay patters I ran into this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Magic-mtg-unlimited-MOX-SAPPHIRE_W0QQitemZ150090387129QQihZ005QQcategoryZ19115QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

This guy has low feedback, is a new member, and all of his feedback is from items purchased that cost 1 Cent with free shipping!  What a joke!  This is obviously fraud in the works -- how do you go about reporting fraud or false listings?

[CrashTest]

That is definitely very suspect.

      That brings up a good point - remember to examine all aspects of a seller when you buy - which can mean checking some of his feedback transactions. Sometimes you can find some useful information there.

[Machinus]

Should we have a list of known scammers and their eBay aliases?

[Yare]

I ran across this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17171372/

on MSNBC today concerning eBay's response to fraud involving rare stamps.  While it obviously does not directly involve magic, I thought it was interesting because it showed how eBay handles a major fraud operation to some degree.

[CrashTest]

Heh, looks like nothing is really done aside from banning user accounts that are easily evaded. If the law won't go after someone even after hundreds of thousands of dollars in fakes, nothing will be done about a few thousand in Magic cards.

      Buyer beware!

[Mr. Nightmare]

While only mildly related, this article is about JK Rowling (Author of Harry Potter) suing eBay for allowing the sale of eBooks, which have never been authorized and are in violation of copyright law.  If she wins (and she's got the clout to make it happen), it could set an interesting precedent, and eBay could finally become liable for what their sellers sell.

[ashiXIII]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200086257693&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1


The seller has pretty good feedback, however very little of it is recent. This auction seems really fishy to me. It's a picture of a Beta Volc, but he says it's CE. I asked him about it, and he said (CCP'ed) "Hi, Yes, its the actual card. Im selling this card for someone else and he told me to list it as a collector edition card. thats why i sell it as it is ." So, I don't even know what that means.

[Fortifitakitors]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200086257693&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1


The seller has pretty good feedback, however very little of it is recent. This auction seems really fishy to me. It's a picture of a Beta Volc, but he says it's CE. I asked him about it, and he said (CCP'ed) "Hi, Yes, its the actual card. Im selling this card for someone else and he told me to list it as a collector edition card. thats why i sell it as it is ." So, I don't even know what that means.

I asked him what the card really was and said he didn't know and that it is possible that is rebacked, fishy.

[CrashTest]

Yeah, he said it was a possible reback too - so I do not trust that auction.

[Yare]

Got a guy selling "proxies that will pass for the real thing" on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-MOX-JET-beta-proxy-copy-proxi-proxie_W0QQitemZ180106315133QQihZ008QQcategoryZ19115QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[wethepeople]

How is this legal?

http://mtgproxies.freewebspace.com/Home.htm

[Autojive]

How is this legal?

http://mtgproxies.freewebspace.com/Home.htm

It's not. He's counterfeiting. I would urge you to contact WOTC about this site.

[wethepeople]

How is this legal?

http://mtgproxies.freewebspace.com/Home.htm

It's not. He's counterfeiting. I would urge you to contact WOTC about this site.

Well he is still calling them "proxies", so he isn't exactly conterfeiting. To some degree, this is no different than Vroman selling his hand-made proxies, but something still feels wrong about it.

[Yare]

How is this legal?

http://mtgproxies.freewebspace.com/Home.htm

It's not. He's counterfeiting. I would urge you to contact WOTC about this site.

Well he is still calling them "proxies", so he isn't exactly conterfeiting. To some degree, this is no different than Vroman selling his hand-made proxies, but something still feels wrong about it.

I would say these resemble the real thing enough that they are counterfeits by any measure.  They would not hold up in a court of law.

[vroman]

my power proxies have hand-written card title and rules text and make no attempt to pass as perfect replicas of real cards.

[shteev]

Is ebay the best place to be selling expensive cards? Or is the seller unlikely to get a good price due to the high suspicion of fakes by other ebay users? Is there a better way of selling?

[Pitlord]

I;m not usually on Ebay, but I want a second opinion on this auction, and all of the others the seller has listed, they look very supect...
http://cgi.ebay.com/MtG-Gathering-Mox-Ruby-Limited-beta-rare-no-reserv_W0QQitemZ230148407149QQihZ013QQcategoryZ49194QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The picture is pretty fuzzy, there is a large glare over a lot of the card, and the borders seem very very dark and unaffected by the glare.
All of his items are like this, with very heavy borders, and a glare. Also, he has all positive feedback, but it is all from people who are no longer registered and the feedback is quite old. Anyone else think that these auctions are fake?

[Anusien]

There are no imperfections in that card border.  I would guess he took a CE card and just used a paint tool to digitally edit the image and fix the borders.  There are no spots in the border at the corners.

[breed]

Item in Budapest - Hungary... I will never buy such item.

[MirariKnight]

This isn't about ebay but I recently purchased a Beta Emerald and I was slightly suspicious of it.
It doenst have the little white spot in the corner of the border, but I have a bunch of Beta Islands that also look like that that I know are real. It's not near good condition which is why I don't want to do the bend test on it (it has a diagonal crease through it, front and back so I know it's not a rebacked card). The crease doesn't look like its there because it failed the bend test based on its positioning, but I'm not sure. What do you think is the best way of telling?

[ashiXIII]

This isn't about ebay but I recently purchased a Beta Emerald and I was slightly suspicious of it.
It doenst have the little white spot in the corner of the border, but I have a bunch of Beta Islands that also look like that that I know are real. It's not near good condition which is why I don't want to do the bend test on it (it has a diagonal crease through it, front and back so I know it's not a rebacked card). The crease doesn't look like its there because it failed the bend test based on its positioning, but I'm not sure. What do you think is the best way of telling?

To start, you can post some hi-res scans on this thread.

[wilmheath]

http://www.mtgotraders.com//phpBB2/scam.php

My site has a scammerlist for MTGO. 

[NodFreak]

hi there folks, im going to buy some unlimited power in 1 or 2 moths (if im able to save enough in that time... i tend to spend a little too much sometimes)... so, im wanted to ask, its truth that fake Beta power its more common than fake Unlimited power?... if thats so, why?... (i asked this in other topic, but the guy recommended me to post it in here), he told me about CE as a factor, can someone please elaborate a little in this?... and also rebacked cards... i never had to worry about this before, so im kinda lost in this department... and if im going to buy something, its better to start to learn how to detect scams and wich kind of fakes are present and why ...Thanx

and to CrashTest:
when im buying power, can i send you a PM so you can check them out before buying (the auctions, and pics the seller sends me and that kind of stuff), and after buying send you some pics for you to analize?, thanx.

[MirariKnight]

hi there folks, im going to buy some unlimited power in 1 or 2 moths (if im able to save enough in that time... i tend to spend a little too much sometimes)... so, im wanted to ask, its truth that fake Beta power its more common than fake Unlimited power?... if thats so, why?... (i asked this in other topic, but the guy recommended me to post it in here), he told me about CE as a factor, can someone please elaborate a little in this?... and also rebacked cards... i never had to worry about this before, so im kinda lost in this department... and if im going to buy something, its better to start to learn how to detect scams and wich kind of fakes are present and why ...Thanx

and to CrashTest:
when im buying power, can i send you a PM so you can check them out before buying (the auctions, and pics the seller sends me and that kind of stuff), and after buying send you some pics for you to analize?, thanx.

Collector's edition cards look like Beta cards but they have square corners and gold writing on the back. It's not too hard to cut the corners perfectly and then remove the back and switch it with the back of a real card. It's pretty easy to detect these (bend test and such) but it's hard to tell in a picture on ebay.
Also, I would assume people fake black bordered power more because they get more money for the same amount of work. It's why people counterfeit $20 bills and not $1 bills.