Tabernacle Ichorid & Nether Shadow

[TheOldMan]

First of all, I'm new at this (frist post - new account), and I know this belongs in the Rules forum, but there was no place for me to post a new question.

Tabernacle at the Pendrell Vale (Oracle) "All creatures have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this creature unless you pay ."

Ichorid (Oracle) "Haste At end of turn, sacrifice Ichorid. At the beginning of your upkeep, if Ichorid is in your graveyard, you may remove a black creature card in your graveyard other than Ichorid from the game. If you do, return Ichorid to play."

Nether Shadow (Oracle) "Haste At the beginning of your upkeep, if Nether Shadow is in your graveyard with three creature cards above it, you may put Nether Shadow into play."

Question:
Tabernacle is in play.  At the beginning of someones next upkeep, both Ichorid and NS come into play.  Does the person who put these creatures into play have to pay 1 for each or sacrifice them.? To me this is tricky. Since Tabernacle was already in play, and the creatures were not, then Tabernacle's effect acts frist with no creatures in play, and then the creatures come into play and don't have to pay 1 or be sacrificed.  The weird part is, how many parts of a beginning of an upkeep are there.  Magic is so literal, and technicial at times with activated abilities, static abilities, replacement effects, do this first, last spell on the stack does this, all the steps of combat, 1st main phase, 2nd main phase, end of turn, blah, blah, blah blah, blah, etc.  All cards do say "At the beginning of your upkeep, either pay this, or sacrifice creatures, or if this is in your graveyard put this creature into play."  Maybe I should ask, Do the creatures also come into play at the beginning of someone's upkeep? If they do what takes precedent?

Oh well, sorry the quesiton was so long.
This came up in a casual game, and an argument ensued.... I lost
Thanks,
TheOldMan

[UR]

Message removed due to inaccurate information

  -- Clariax

[Godder]

As long as the creatures aren't in play at the beginning of your Upkeep (that is, at the point when the Untap Step moves to the Upkeep Step), the Tabernacle-granted abilities won't trigger. Creatures put into play at the beginning of the Upkeep by abilities (e.g. Ichorid) weren't actually in play when the game moved from the Untap Step to the Upkeep Step, so the Tabernacle-granted ability won't trigger.

[Harlequin]

It's not possible for the Ichorids to be affected by Tabbernackle.  Tabbernackle grants a triggered ability to a creature in play.  So No trigger will ever go on the stack, after the "beginning of your upkeep."   So (lets assume I am playing Ichorid).  Its my untap, I untap my cards and before I get priority in my upkeep, I have to put ALL triggers on the stack (and declare the order).  If I have no creatures in play, then no Tabbernackle triggers will EVER go on the stack this upkeep.  


Another example.  Lets say I have 4 nether shadows in play, and tabbernackle when I untap.  Now at the beginning of my upkeep I have 4 payment triggers to stack.  Lets say I have no mana to pay them, so (as the triggers resolve) the creatures start to die.  As soon as thats over, I have 4 nethershadows in the yard.  Now, this upkeep, it is too late to trigger the 1st Shadow that went into the yard because even though he -now- has 3 creatures above him, he did not (and wasn't even in the GY) -at- the beginning on my upkeep.