Is it time to unrestrict Library of Alexandria?

[DoubleDrain]

Hello everyone.

I have been thinking a lot about Library lately, and it's role in vintage. It has been discussed in other threads that modern vintage is so fast these days, that even the mana drain decks are killing on turn 2-3. When you consider how fast the environment has become, It would seem that the value of an early library has gone down, as most decks force some sort of interaction, forcing the library player to spend cards to react, and thus nullifying the value of LoA (other than as 1/2 a sol ring).

I often wondered why Bazaar of Baghdad wasn't restricted, when by today's standards it is (arguably) even more busted than the LoA. Sure, if Bazaar tapped for mana, it might have already been restricted, as people often complain that Bazaar just wasted a whole turn of mana development, but one shouldn't even consider the bazaar a land.

Compare Library to Bazaar of Baghdad:

LoA:

Taps for 1 colorless
Taps to draw a card only if you have 7 in hand

Bazaar:

Does not tap for mana
Taps to draw 2, then discard 3

To me, one of the biggest strengths of Bazaar is the fact that it can be used at any time, and not conditionally like Library.


Let's look at the decks which try and break bazaar. One of the things that Uba Stax, Icorid, and Dragon (among others) have in common is that they turn the (supposed) disadvantage of discarding 3 cards into an advantage. Bazaar only really became popular once people realized that sometimes discarding things is the right thing to do in order to speed up their game plan; in modern vintage, the graveyard is just another place to set your cards so you don't have to hold them all: wink:

What about the decks that break Library? In times of old, there was a deck entitled Keeper which was able to break LoA by playing cards like Timetwister, Jayemdae Tome, etc. In addition, some of the fastest decks a Keeper player might face were Sui Black, Sligh with Ball Lightning's and Fireblasts, and stompy (very slow decks by today's standards), and so there was often plenty of time to stall out the game and really take advantage of the Library. Once Urza's block came and flooded Type 1 with fast combo decks, speeding up a typical type 1 game by leaps and bounds, Keeper as a deck was killed. Its strategy of dragging out the game and eventually overwhelming the opponent with card advantage became obsolete, as the faster combo decks forced the Keeper player to react to the combo player's cards. In particular, playing a turn 1 LoA and passing wasn't a good strategy anymore, as you were not likely to draw that many cards (due to just trying to counter threats and stay alive, implying less than 7 cards in hand most of the time). The keeper player would often be better off just laying a blue land and hoping to get drain mana up turn 2.

The modern-day equivalent of Keeper is almost certainly Control Slaver. Here is a deck that is good at many things, but not amazing at any one of them. Many CS variants run the Library even today, and so it seems like a good place to start looking for decks which might try and abuse unrestricted Libraries. The deck will often run Thirst for Knowledge, which is a good way for the Control Slaver player to maintain Library advantage. Some CS builds even run Night's Whisper, to further enhance the Library's effectiveness. The main question to ask is if a deck like Slaver would even want to run 4 LoA's if it could. Perhaps there would be an entirely new deck created which was designed to break 4 Library's.

I suppose my point of this article is that even if people could play 4 LoA's, they may not want to if they know that most of the time they will have to put a lot of effort into keeping the Library active. Modern vintage has become so fast that most decks can just win even before the Library starts to generate card advantage. Why is Library restricted and not Bazaar? Would there even be a vintage deck that could break 4 LoA's like other vintage decks break 4 Bazaar? Am I totally crazy for suggesting that LoA could be unrestricted without highly distorting the metagame as we know it?

Discuss.

[technogeek5000]

decks that use bazaar (namely ichorid) wouldnt benefit from bazaar using mana so theres not much to compare there.

Unrestricting library would make control decks (namely CS) better (not neccesarily a bad thing) and make aggro decks less viable. This would also allow random decks to be more competitive (again not a bad thing), but people would probably upset due to the fact that they have to put down another 200 to make their deck tier again (most people wouldnt play over 2).

[Moxlotus]

I don't think unrestricted Library would be very scary at all.  A number of people won't play 1 in their control decks, and I doubt people would play more than 2 at the max.  With so many decks not giving your opponent a chance to even gain an advantage off Library (since it essentially takes 2 turns to get going since you wasted a drop) I don't think unrestricted Library would affect the format very much at all.

[Machinus]

I've thought the card would be safe for a long time, but it can't realistically come off.

[Liam-K]

I remember in one of my forays into #tmd asking people if library was unrestricted, how many they would run.  As I recall, the only person to say something other than 1 or 0 was the brass man, and his answer was along the lines of "I don't know but library is really good."

I am not sure how a 4 library deck would have to look.  It would probably not include mana drain.  I imagine it would play poorly (compared to the field) without drawing a library, since it would have to be so nervous of double coloured mana.  I'm not saying it would be unplayable but I highly doubt it would be format distorting in any way.

[Lou]

I've thought the card would be safe for a long time, but it can't realistically come off.

Why can't it realistically come off? I personally see no reason to keep Library restricted. As has been said, it takes two turns to get going, for one card. It could get degenerate, but I don't think so, because of the speed of the format.

[Luecifer]

i have a hard time believing the unrestriction would not affect the vintage format. while i cannot recall the days of old when 4 loa were legal, i do know the power and advantage the library can create.  my initial impression of the cards unrestriction would be the creation of an entirely new deck archtype, would it dominate and warp the format, probably not, but it would, however, become seriously powerful and possibly surplant gifts as the control/combo deck of choice, if built correctly.

[EKM_Ichorid]

I'd have to say that Library sucks in the current metagame. Are you really going to wait untill your second turn to cast anything just so you can draw one card? I think that by the second turn, a deck should have disrupted it's opponnet somehow, be it Chalice at 0, Duress, or a Force of Will. At the most, you'd draw one or two cards, and that certainly isn't broken.

[ErkBek]

I think its safe to pull LoA off the Restricted list.

If it were, then I think Night's Whisper would have to be the main non-library draw engine for those decks.

[OfficeShredder]

Only if they take black vise off the list too.  Decks kill before black vise does anything anyway

[Midknight]

Unrestricting Library would be a mistake. At Blue Bell last weekend, first round in the top 8 my opt playing Gifts. He won the dice roll. First turn he drop Mox Saphire, Ancestral Recall, and Library. Yes thats pretty insane draw, usually that doesnt happen. I was not happy. I could not keep up with him. Library really shines in decks with card drawing. Its usally better on the draw since you draw a 8th card. Well if Wizards wants control decks to rule the format, then what the hell, unrestrict it.

[OfficeShredder]

As opposed to the perfectly balanced aggro-control-combo-prison format we have now 

It wouldn't be that overpowering if black vise was unrestricted, since the vise would singlehandedly kill library decks

[Scott_Limoges]

Nice post Travis.  I to feel that Library Could come off the resticted list but would need to be watched.  Right now, virtually every deck in the format has a way to deal with library immediately.  Combo has Duress and a quick game plan that prompts FOW, which slows library down, Ichorid and fish have chalice which forces the library player to play moxen and lose a 7 card hand, and stax has wasteland.  Only control might suffer but what competitve control deck doesn't win by turn 4/5.  In addition library only gains card advantage slowly, replacing itself first.

Duress
Wasteland
Chalice
Fast decks

...could keep library in check.

Library is almost win more when we compare its opportunity cost by measuring the requirements to keep library active and its effect per turn vs. playing moxen, color producing lands, and disruption/business.

[Metman]

LoA is one of those cards that scares me if it could be played in multiples.  The opportunity of building a deck around them could be extrodinary, much like how Bazaar and Workshop and for that matter Wasteland is built around.  They all, directly or indirectly cheat the fundemental "rules" of magic.  Unrestricted LoA might see a new control archetype or combo deck.  I'm not sure how much the card would shake up vintage.  It's not necessarily about creating a combo but creating obscene amounts of CA and playing it as a 4of could mean consistantly.  There are plenty of ways of dealing with LoA but that doesn't mean it should be unrestricted.  The control mirrors would be crazy though. 

The argument that it would cost people more money is a bad one.  I really don't think that matters much.  There was a bunch of hoopla about it when Berserk came off the list.  People complained, some made a bunch off it...whatever.  Vintage is expensive as it is, a couple more two hundred dollar cards won't make that big of a difference. 

[kirdape3]

If Vintage had any viable control decks, Library of Alexandria would be in them immediately.  As it was, if being the control player was a good idea in the near mirror between the combo-control decks was a particularly good idea then LoA would be pretty stupidly good there too.

If you unrestrict it, either nothing happens or every blue deck immediately plays 4 regardless of the strain on the manabase.

[brianpk80]

Good post.  I see the central thrust of your argument is that the format is so hyper quick these days that a deck running 4 Library of Alexandrias would invite major speed disadvantages to offset the benefit of running those 4.  The risks and disadvantages would keep it in check.  Hence we may as well unrestrict it, you say.

The problem with this argument is that it acknowledges the format is chaotic and possibly more broken than ever (notwithstanding Burning Long & Academy) but says "well let's break it even more."  The storm mechanic has twisted the format so much that it now defines Vintage.  I don't see this as a good thing and as it continues to grow in popularity and strength, the game itself suffers.  For instance, I find Vintage was a lot more exciting around this time last year, with heavy Stax, Gifts variants, Slaver, Oath, and only a hint of Long on the radar.  There's no incentive for deck design when no matter how you tweak your lists, losing the die roll often means you get one, maybe two, turns to accomplish something.  Even if you're at a perfect skill level and are piloting a pristine optimized list, the random losses due to opponent chaining Rituals and tutors before you can realistically react is nauseating.  Stax was engaging and it was a challenge.  Playing against Long/Gifts on the other hand is like stepping into a freak accident that you have no control over.  

If unrestricting Library could alleviate these concerns, it might be worth considering.  But it doesn't.  It just sets up a substitute broken culprit to succeed storm combo if and when it abates.  

Eventually, I see storm combo meeting a brutal end either by the eventual printing of a super hoser or because the format reaches its breaking point, the community becomes even more frustrated, and a careful selection of cards get banned or restricted.  The Restriction of Library of Alexandria is one of those pillars in place to help maintain some sense of balance and fairness in the format and if/when storm combo decks take their bow, we'll all be grateful that the format doesn't degenerate into LoA.dec versus Wasteland.dec.

-BPK

[Smmenen]

I think the answer depends on who you ask:

I can tell you that Rich Shay and Andy Probasco are gaga for the card and will probably post as much.   I suspect that some of team reflection and other members of the NE Vintage community will back up those sentiments, but not many.

I think everyone else though, with very few exceptions, is very unimpressed with LoA.    I definitely think it can come of the restricted list.   LoA is most busted in the control mirror.  And even there I think it is weak. 

[o uncola o]

It is time.  Library is my favorite card of all time (except for maybe timetwister).  However, I play a control deck and still don't even play one.  I agree that the unrestriction of LoA could possibly lead to some sort of new deck based around it, but if it were to lead to such a deck, it would not necessarily be broken and could even be good for the format.   The card is good, but it is no longer powerful enough to be restricted.

[dicemanx]

I think it's madness to unrestrict a card that is so powerful and game breaking. I don't believe that the format has become so fast - if it *has*, then the question is not whether we *can* to unrestrict LoA, but whether we *need* to restrict Gifts/Tendrils combo pieces.

Basically, the moment LoA becomes a candidate for unrestriction (and I don't think we are there yet), its the moment where there is something seriously wrong in the format. The fact that there seems to be a skew in favor of Tendrils/YawgWill based strategies (as far as t8/t4s at major events were concerned in 2006) is already a step in the wrong direction, but I'd be willing to wait and see where it all goes right now before suggestion any action. It is increasingly more difficult to discern between "best" and "currently popular" - the two don't have to overlap.

[Moxlotus]

  Basically, the moment LoA becomes a candidate for unrestriction (and I don't think we are there yet), its the moment where there is something seriously wrong in the format. The fact that there seems to be a skew in favor of Tendrils/YawgWill based strategies (as far as t8/t4s at major events were concerned in 2006) is already a step in the wrong direction

Why?  Why is something seriously wrong with the format then?  People could have said the same thing for dozens and dozens of events in Magic history.  I mean, CoW and Welder were both prime targets for "being too ridiculous" at one time.  So was Mask.  Who knew that a tournament staple like Erhnam would become absolute crap when it was reprinted.  Vintage is very fast and is built to be the most broken format.  It only makes sense that it is the fastest and most degenerate.  I think it is a step in the logical direction--not the wrong direction.  The format isn't completely devoid of skill and it isn't all turn 1 kills.  There are lots of decks that effectively combat Gifts and Long.

I'm just curious as to why you think LoA being able to be unrestricted would be the moment something is wrong.  LoA is a very slow card, it not being very good in a blazing fast format doesn't surprise me.

[Vegeta2711]

LoA is a very slow card, it not being very good in a blazing fast format doesn't surprise me.

Please tell me how you can possibly say LoA is a 'very slow card' in any reasonable capacity. You play it, you tap it, you draw a card. I can't think of any faster card drawing engine. You don't need a huge amount of CA to just bury the opponent, a couple of cards can do it. The only time it's slow is if your worried about dying on turn 2.

...

Oh wait, I guess that would be Peter's point.

Like do you realize how ludicrous saying LOA is slow is? They just reprinted the same ability and shoved it on a creature that won't be able to even use it until turn 4 at the earliest barring some major luck-sackery.

[Yare]

My gut says that it is not quite time for LoA to come off the list.  I guess I feel like drawing into library could get unfun very quickly. 

I also hate to bring this up, but I'm going to anyway: Do we really want to make the format less accessible by adding another (possibly) 4-of expensive card to the mix?  I don't think money should drive the format, but it's a consideration.

[Moxlotus]

LoA is a very slow card, it not being very good in a blazing fast format doesn't surprise me.

Please tell me how you can possibly say LoA is a 'very slow card' in any reasonable capacity. You play it, you tap it, you draw a card. I can't think of any faster card drawing engine. You don't need a huge amount of CA to just bury the opponent, a couple of cards can do it. The only time it's slow is if your worried about dying on turn 2.

...

Oh wait, I guess that would be Peter's point.

Like do you realize how ludicrous saying LOA is slow is? They just reprinted the same ability and shoved it on a creature that won't be able to even use it until turn 4 at the earliest barring some major luck-sackery.

It costs you a land drop and then draws a card.  If you were on the play you don't get to use it till turn 2.  You gain an advantage the second time you use it.  If you were ont he play that's turn 3 when it reaps advantage.  That's pretty slow.  All the while holding moxen and possibly getting owned by a turn 2 or 3 chalice which wouldn't ahve done anything if you had played your moxen.  Could you have played them?  Sure, but then LoA is worse than basic island. 

Sure they reprinted it...in a format where counterspell is too good.

Let's look at the environment.  Control decks can't sit around and do nothing against anything except in the mirror.  Would you want a 4-of in your deck that pretty much blows against 60% of the field that makes you react to them turn 1? It's not just worrying about dying on turn 2--but getting Duressed or having to force something does Library in.  Sure they rock the mirror, but is that worth the maindeck slots?  I dont' think anybody would care about insane cards against certain matches in the sideboard.

I mean, lots of players aren't even using 1 in their control decks--why would I be afraid of an environment with 4 available?  It's not exactly a card that works best in multiples like Doomsday or Regrowth.

[Vegeta2711]

...

How does it cost a land drop? I'm quite sure my LOA's all say, 'T: Make 1 mana' somewhere on them, which means they're quite usable as land.

Also I never said anything about restrict/unrestrict, all I said was it was silly to bring up that the card was slow. I stand by that. It's pretty much the fastest draw engine to ever be printed. Everything else you said is pretty much moot to the basic point I was getting at. Whatever, this is why all restriction/unrestriction threads are by their very nature, worthless.

[dicemanx]

Vintage is very fast and is built to be the most broken format.  It only makes sense that it is the fastest and most degenerate.  I think it is a step in the logical direction--not the wrong direction.

No one will argue that many top decks in Vintage aren't trying to "logically" progress towards being faster and more generate. You just need to ask yourself what your threshhold of acceptability is. How fast is too fast? Too degenerate? Once you reach that threshhold, then using the B/R list is one option.

To me, the point where unrestricting LoA is a possible option represents reaching that threshhold.

The format isn't completely devoid of skill and it isn't all turn 1 kills.  There are lots of decks that effectively combat Gifts and Long.

The format will never be devoid of skill. We can't talk in terms of absolutes. This is a matter of degree. The faster/more degenerate the format is, the less skill becomes part of the equation. Perhaps there is still some skill involved in terms of sound technical play, or effective deck construction, but gaps in such skills between the good players and great players constantly diminishes. It will be much more difficult for you to outplay someone who wields a powerful build (netdecked or not) and knows most if not all the technical details of how his turn-2/3 average kill deck should be played against other archetypes.

What decks, by the way, "effectively combat Gifts and Long"? we are seeing an undeniable trend towards a dominance of Will/Tendrils based strategies - the results from 2006 suggest this. Are people just not playing anti-Will strategies effectively/enough? Should these Tendrils/Will-based decks not do as well as tourney results suggest? If you were entering a tourney that had a large percentage of Long/Gifts archetypes, what would you choose to play? Would you play a Will-based deck in turn and hope to "outplay" your opponents?

I'm just curious as to why you think LoA being able to be unrestricted would be the moment something is wrong.  LoA is a very slow card, it not being very good in a blazing fast format doesn't surprise me.

LoA is far from being a "very slow card". Perhaps it just reflects how fast the format is perceived to be (or at least how fast it appears to you).

Like I said, no way do I think LoA is unrestriction-worthy, because I don't think that we're quite "there" yet.

[Anusien]

Getting Library of Alexandria active is still the most potent barometer of victory in a control mirror.  I feel that you people are seriously underrating the card.  For one thing, the switch to a harder to counter but slower Empty the Warrens clock (3 turns instead of 2) makes Library better, especially because it more easily helps fuel an Empty the Warrens; if you're holding back Moxen anyway to generate Storm...  Plus, most Gifts decks still make it a point to Merchant Scroll->Ancestral early.  You get at least that much advantage with Library, without the risk of getting Misdirected.

If your judge of whether Library is fair is whether most decks can deal with it (as some people have posted), you're looking at it wrong.  If it is a "deal with me or die!" card, it's not safe enough to come off.  For other cards which are theoretically answerable but if they go unchecked they win the game, look at Yawgmoth's Will, Ancestral Recall, Strip Mine, Tolarian Academy, Black Lotus.  Just because those cards can be Duressed/Needled/Countered/Extracted doesn't mean they're not batshit broken.  Generally speaking, if I have to throw around Force of Will, then it didn't matter what my land drop is, but in the best case I blow you out with card advantage.

[Smmenen]

The problem with library is that Library, more so than other magic cards, will always appear better than it isi.   Let me explain why.  It is easy to see when it is good — it is drawing you cards. But its costs are hidden because they are difficult to identify and isolate opportunity costs.

When it wins the game, we rarely ever ask: was it optimal? because the result was clear.  When it interferes with a game win, it is easly to place blame.But here's the problem with library : What if it contributes to a game win that would have been more solid if you had played something else?  That is, what if turn one Library resulted in an extremely narrow game win where turn one Brainstorm would have resulted in a quick combo out with overwhelming card advantage?   

It is very hard to isolate and identify opportunity costs with LoA because its investment is so deep early on and we can't/don't actually rewind games to see what would have happened if we hadn't played LoA.  Furthermore, here is no incentive to rewind games that were won.   For that reason, I argue that LoA is a deceptively bad card.  It will always appear better than it is.

Consider this hand that I drew in tournament:

Library of Alexandria
Tolarian Academy
Brainstorm
Mana Vault
Force of Will
Merchant Scroll
7th card I can't remember

Here's how the game played out:

 Turn 1

My opponent opens with Underground Sea and Lotus Petal.

I deployed the knowledge of the Library and passed. Note that I drew Duress on the turn.

Turn 2

On his upkeep I activated Library, drawing Demonic Tutor.

He played Island, Sol Ring.

I draw and played a Volcanic Island and my Mana Vault.

Turn 3

On his upkeep I used my Library again, drawing Darksteel Colossus.

Now I make a huge blunder. A blunder I've written about before. Take a look at the very last example in this article I wrote for MagicTheGathering.com:

The game state is almost precisely the same: I have Library and plenty of pitch magic, while my opponent has Petal and makes the following key play:

He plays Demonic Tutor for Ancestral Recall.

Of course, I attempt to Misdirect the Ancestral. That makes sense and puts me down to six cards in hand. He Force of Wills my Misdirection. Here is where I got greedy. I Force of Will back, only to run into Pyroblast. He draws three cards and I'm left with a useless four card hand: Academy, Darksteel Colossus, Demonic Tutor, and Duress.

I pitched the Brainstorm and Merchant Scroll to support the pitch magic. Now I'm stuck with useless cards, cut off from Black mana, and looking doomed.

Counterfactually, if I had just not used my Force of Will, I probably would have won. Next turn I could have used my Library and then Brainstormed back terrible cards for good cards. In the Brainstorm, I may have seen a Black mana that I could use to Duress the Yawgmoth's Will he's about to play (and does play on turn 5).

Here's what happens:

I draw Tendrils of Agony and pass — trying to build back up to seven cards.

Turn 4

He does nothing and passes.

I draw Lotus Petal and pass.

Turn 5

He Duresses me and takes the Demonic Tutor. He plays Time Walk

On his Time Walk turn he plays Yawgmoth's Will. I sit back helplessly.

He draws more cards, Time Walks again and then untaps and hardcasts Darksteel Colossus off an Academy. He played Academy specifically because he saw that I had it.

I untap and draw Mana Crypt. The irony is that I would have had enough mana to play my own Colossus with Crypt, Petal, Vault, LoA, Volc and Academy if he hadn't have played Academy. I lose a few turns later.


 Let's rewind the decision tree in the game above. If I had played Island on turn one instead of LOA, I would have probably played turn 1 Mana Vault and followed that up with Brainstorm and Scroll for Ancestral which would have resolved because I had pitch magic in hand and on top of my deck. I would have been able to likely use that Duress and win quite quickly. Instead, I was short-changing myself by using Library. It looked like Library was going to win me that game, instead it lost me that game.

Admittedly, I could have just played it differently in three respects. I didn't have to use the Library like I did. I could have played the game a little more aggressively and relied less on LoA. Second, I didn't have to play the Force of Will on the Force of Will on my Misdirection targeting Ancestral. I didn't think about what would happen if I got Pyroblasted. I just really wanted that Ancestral to resolve in my favor. Third, I suppose I could have responded with Brainstorm to put the crappy cards on top of my library. That play didn't occur to me simply because I thought my Misdirection was going to resolve. In any event, the real cost of using my pitch magic there was the fact that I had to lose my Brainstorm. That isn't always as costly as it was in that game, but with so many dead cards because I was cut off from Black mana, Brainstorm was more critical than ever.


That said: I predicted that Rich Shay, Andy Probasco, and yes, I should have included Peter in that group as well, would come to LoAs defense.  But I think beyond Peter and his circle (maybe Rich Mattuzzio might defend LoA) and team reflection and maybe a few other NEers, you won't find many people who think that LoA is that good.    The Drain decks are just too fast, even in the mirror. 

[Anusien]

Counterfactually, if I had just not used my Force of Will, I probably would have won. Next turn I could have used my Library and then Brainstormed back terrible cards for good cards. In the Brainstorm, I may have seen a Black mana that I could use to Duress the Yawgmoth's Will he's about to play (and does play on turn 5).

...

Admittedly, I could have just played it differently in three respects. I didn't have to use the Library like I did. I could have played it a little more aggressively. Second, I didn't have to play the Force of Will on the Force of Will on my Misdirection targeting Ancestral. I didn't think about what would happen if I got Pyroblasted. I just really wanted that Ancestral to resolve in my favor. Third, I suppose I could have responded with Brainstorm to put the crappy cards on top of my library. That play didn't occur to me simply because I thought my Misdirection was going to resolve. In any event, the real cost of using my pitch magic there was the fact that I had to lose my Brainstorm. That isn't always as costly as it was in that game, but with so many dead cards because I was cut off from Black mana, Brainstorm was more critical than ever.

So your analysis is because you misplayed using Library, Library is a bad card?  Hey, I'm going to just run out turn 1 Ancestral against Gifts and get it Misdirected.  Hey, this means Ancestral is bad now, right?

I find it amusing that you're talking about whether or not Library is too slow in Drain mirrors, when you just cut Drain from Drain TPS.  The swap from Mana Drain to Duress makes Library of Alexandria better, not worse.  After all, Duress slows the game down (much more than Force, because you're proactive instead of reactive with it) making Library of Alexandria that much better.  And you can do some nutty things with the existing control core: turn 1 Library on the draw, draw and force something, draw a card then play land + mox and Merchant Scroll for your second counter.  You're just so far ahead of your opponent at that point you can't lose; you've gained all the advantages of Ancestral Recall except that you'll occasionally get to do it for the rest of the game.

[Moxlotus]

...

How does it cost a land drop? I'm quite sure my LOA's all say, 'T: Make 1 mana' somewhere on them, which means they're quite usable as land.

Also I never said anything about restrict/unrestrict, all I said was it was silly to bring up that the card was slow. I stand by that. It's pretty much the fastest draw engine to ever be printed. Everything else you said is pretty much moot to the basic point I was getting at. Whatever, this is why all restriction/unrestriction threads are by their very nature, worthless.

LoA costs a land drop because it doesn't produce colored mana.  It doesn't help cast Duress.  It doesn't set yourself up for a turn 2 Drain.  The card doesn't generate card advantage till the second time it is used which could very well be the third turn of the game.  I don't see how that isn't slow.

If LoA was faster, then why wouldn't all control players play it?

Again, I"m not saying LoA isn't crazy delicious in the control mirrors--but it pretty much blows against all other decks.  Having a card be crazy good against 1 type of deck is not something that I think is too bad.

What decks, by the way, "effectively combat Gifts and Long"?  

U/W Fish keeps putting up results--it can't be too bad.  Bomberman is putting up pretty strong results.  If anybody played URBana fish, it would too.  URBana fish is amazing against Gifts and Long and is more than likely SHOULD be the deck of choice for the metagame.  Dragon is really good against Pitch Long.  I'm not sure how it does against Gifts.  I would love to face either Gifts or Long with the B/R Stax deck GWS posted a few months ago.

[Vegeta2711]

That said: I predicted that Rich Shay, Andy Probasco, and yes, I should have included Peter in that group as well, would come to LoAs defense.  But I think beyond Peter and his circle (maybe Rich Mattuzzio might defend LoA) and team reflection and maybe a few other NEers, you won't find many people who think that LoA is that good.    The Drain decks are just too fast, even in the mirror.

Did we kill your puppy or something Steve? Does this really need to be said OVER AND OVER? Like just come right out and say whatever your implying about everyone on that little list, because you wouldn't be harping on it so much if there was no reason for it.