The Best Card In Vintage

[Illissius]

Vote first.

Basically, I'm curious. How would you rank the top N notable cards? I don't really have a clue, other than Will will win by a landslide, which is why I'm asking. I also suspect Storm deserves more respect than it gets in terms of the power level of the cards themselves (people sort of take it for granted), but this is just a suspicion. How is the current list different compared to various incarnations of Type 1 in the past? For example, Mind Twist was right up there with the best in the Keeper era and was once banned, whereas it's so far off the radar now that many want to unrestrict it. I'm pretty sure Balance has also fallen a lot. Any other interesting changes, like, I dunno, Ancestral and Lotus trading places or something?

EDIT -- Now that Jacob has changed the poll, vote for your top 5 picks for best card, and if you like, list their order in a reply.

[Yare]

Will is obviously the best card.  Perhaps the poll should have been "best card that isn't Yawgmoth's Will"?

[diopter]

Black Lotus is the best card.

This list could've been a lot shorter. Basically the debate is between Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Yawgmoth's Will, and perhaps Mishra's Workshop.

[Illissius]

Will is obviously the best card.  Perhaps the poll should have been "best card that isn't Yawgmoth's Will"?

Someone might disagree (as someone already has). This is why I added the "How would you rank the top N notable cards?" bit, so people could give more useful data beyond "Will, duh". That said, maybe the poll should have been "what is the second best card, if Will is the best", with one of the options being "Will isn't the best; elaborate below", but I'll leave it as is now.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

I vote Lotus. There are many decks that don't play will, I can't think of many that don't play Lotus.

Also, I think Bargain has the most powerful effect in Vintage.

[netherspirit]

Force of Will because it keeps most other cards in check and is used in a huge variety of decks.

[Smmenen]

IMO, there are only two viable options: Yawg Will or Black Lotus.   And that just depends upon what you mean by "best."

[Methuselahn]

I'm really not sure how to reply to this thread.  Do you want me to pick 1 card that is the best in a vacuum or do you want me to "rank the top N notable cards?"  I suppose Black Lotus could be considered the best card in this totally subjective 'environment' that you speak of.  After reading this list and vague poll, Polluted Delta actually came to mind.  'Cause hey, it's an uncounterable tutor that produces mana!  How awesome is that??

[CranialX]

Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Yawgwin and Tinker for me in the restricted list.
Brainstorm and Force of Will in the staple cards in Vintage. 

[OfficeShredder]

That's right boys, I voted for channel.

It totally rocks your socks with black lotus and fireball

[Jacob Orlove]

To get a more complete picture, I made it so that people can vote for up to 5 cards, and so that they can change their votes if they already voted. That should get a much better ranking of "the top N cards" than just asking people to choose what "best" means.

edit: I voted for Ancestral, Lotus, Will. The former two because they have probably the highest positive correlation between "is this card in your opening hand?" and "you win the game" (although slightly more so for Lotus), and Will because it doesn't even need to be in your opening hand.

[Cross]

I vote Lotus. There are many decks that don't play will, I can't think of many that don't play Lotus.

Also, I think Bargain has the most powerful effect in Vintage.

I don't understand why bargain is not on here.

I'm also surprised that no one has voted for tinker. Like 6 months bad players were like crying to have it banned.

[Almighty]

My picks are Lotus, Will, Ancestral, Force, and Other. Other meaning Duress in this case. Despite that everyone knows how good it is, the difference it makes is hugely underrated.

[Matt]

Where's Gifts?

[Jacob Orlove]

Bargain and Gifts added.

[LotusHead]

I can't imagine a world where Black Lotus isn't the best card ever.

I feel no need to vote.

(Ancestral Recall and Yawgmoth's Will will get 9-land Stompy nowhere.

[netherspirit]

Changed my vote to Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Force of Will, Tinker and Yawgmoth's Will.

[ELD]

(Ancestral Recall and Yawgmoth's Will will get 9-land Stompy nowhere.

Nothing will get 9 land stopy anywhere. 

IMO Ancestral, Force, Lotus, Will and Gifts in no particular order.  Tinker has been cut from many Gifts lists, as Gifts lets you win with just about whatever you want.  I think this type of thing can easily be proved with analyzing data from top 8's.  Duress might be 6th for me, though it might deserve the 5th spot.  It seems to me that Gifts and Pitch Long have been putting up equally impressive numbers, so Gifts might not be better than Grim Tutor.  The difference is you can Gifts for Will and other stuff out of no where and win, where with Grim, you have to have a stocked bin.  We need the return of a Dr. Sylvan for this kind of stuff. 

[Illissius]

I'm really not sure how to reply to this thread.  Do you want me to pick 1 card that is the best in a vacuum or do you want me to "rank the top N notable cards?"

Both. Vote for the best (though not in a vacuum, see below), and list your top N choices in a reply, with #1 understandably being the one you voted for. Along with, if you feel like it, your top N choices at various points in Type 1's past which you find interesting. Judging by the results, I suppose I was vague about this.

Since the poll has changed, obviously you would now vote for the top five best cards.

I suppose Black Lotus could be considered the best card in this totally subjective 'environment' that you speak of.

Yeah, terms like "the current Vintage environment" are notoriously difficult to precisely define, which is why I didn't even try -- I didn't want the thread to degenerate into a discussion about semantics. That said, "environment" is somewhere between "metagame" and "format" in terms of breadth -- not taking the various weekly fluctuations of the metagame into account, but acknowledging the current state in the development of the format, the interactions, strategies, and decks which have been discovered. So I suppose what I meant was, choose the best card taking into account the viable decks which currently exist and their relative power levels, but not necessarily their relative popularities.

As for the definition of 'best', it's clearly not "most powerful effect", as that would be something like Demonfire for 20, but rather considering both the costs and benefits. I'm not sure about the conditions, e.g. whether more decks being able to play a card makes it more powerful.

After reading this list and vague poll, Polluted Delta actually came to mind.  'Cause hey, it's an uncounterable tutor that produces mana!  How awesome is that??

That's not actually a bad idea. Added, along with Duress. (Grim Tutor is strictly inferior to Demonic, hence it wasn't. Should I add that, though? Anything else missing?)

[EKM_Ichorid]

Bazaar, Tinker, Will, and Oath.

Oath has been chronically powerful.

Tinker can randomly win whenever.

Bazaar created Ichorid, which will warp the metagame soon.

[Implacable]

Yawgmoth's Will, Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, and Tinker are the most obvious choices.  The fifth card is debatable.  I would say that it is Tendrils, because it is an uncounterable kill condition and defines the format, in that you have to be able to race it.

[Yare]

Well, I'm having difficulty determining how to change my official vote, but if I could vote for 5, they would be, not necessarily in this order:

Yawgmoth's Will
Black Lotus
Ancestral Recall
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Tinker

Tendrils of Agony, Force of Will, Brainstorm, and Mishra's Workshop all get honorable mention.

[Twaun007]

I picked these on the fact that when they resolve it is usually game over.

Yawgmoth's Will
Black Lotus
Ancestral Recall
Tendrils of Agony
Gifts Ungiven

I didn't pick Tinker since Empty the Warrens is seeing lots of play.

[Disburden]

My 5:

Black Lotus
YAwgmoth's Will
Ancestral Recall
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire.


Lotus and Will are at the top ofcourse.

Also WHERE IS BRAINSTORM?!

[Liek]

I interperted the poll as "what are the best 5 cards in this poll?"

Anyways, Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, Sol Ring, and Time Walk.

Mana Crypt should probably be in there, but I find Ring to be stronger (from my perspective, always playing Fish, Chalice zero stops Crypt, or if they have Crypt, it causes some damage, effectively shortening my clock, while Sol Ring costs 1 and can be played through a Chalice. I almost never win against turn 1 Sol Ring when I'm playing Fish, it produces far too much mana in a short period of time.)

Anyways, I'm surprised there's so little love for Time Walk. The card almost always leads to the end of the game. The way I evaluate this is that the bombs win the game (Yawgmoth's Will, etc.,) but Time Walk prodces the time and mana to get you there, and therefor is among the best cards in the game.

[diopter]

OK, now that we're doing 5 cards:

1.) Black Lotus
2.) Yawgmoth's Will
3.) Ancestral Recall
4.) Mishra's Workshop
5.) Bazaar of Baghdad

Why these cards are the best:
Vintage is a format of stupid plays.
Lotus and Workshop are best at enabling your stupid plays.
Ancestral is the most efficient at finding your stupid plays.
Will and Bazaar are the best at turning your deck into one gigantic stupid play.

[Vegeta2711]

Lotus and Will;nothing else is remotely close.

[Bram]

IMO, there are only two viable options: Yawg Will or Black Lotus.   And that just depends upon what you mean by "best."

QFT. Also note how the inherent brokenness of either card is ridiculously amplified by the existence of the other.

Were I not given the opportunity to explain my definition of "best" (and thus my final choice) in any great detail, but forced to choose regardless(say, at gunpoint), I'd probably say Lotus over Will.

[Razvan]

Mishra's Workshop > *. This is not debatable. It's the best card in the game because of that fact alone.

On a serious note, it's Yawgmoth's Will most likely, not only because of the effect, but the uniqueness of the effect. Bazaar, Library, Ancestral draw a lot of cards at a trivial cost. Academy, Workshop and Lotus give a lot mana, at a trivial cost.

On the list, the following follow similar ideas, of lots of one ressource cheap:

Channel
Mana Crypt
Mox Sapphire
Sol Ring
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Gifts Ungiven

Cards I have no idea how anyone could place on this list:

Empty the Warrens
Duress
Polluted Delta
Tendrils of Agony

Cards that are great, but nowhere close:

Goblin Welder
Mana Drain
Mind Twist

Card that is stupid and the creator/designer should be shot:

Oath of Druids

So we are left with Yawgmoth's Will and these 5 cards:

Balance
Tinker
Time Walk
Force of Will

Which I think are 2-5.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Wow, so many people do not understand Time Walk.  That card is amazing.  You get to untap, play another land, \ and do a whole bunch more stuff.  Think if you Time Walked after playing Empty the Warrens!  It's probably my favorite card ever.

But so are Duress, Other, Force of Will and Black Lotus.  What can I say?  I'm pretty bad at Magic.

By the way, my "Other" is Stifle.