3CB #95 Results and Discussion/3CB Tournament #96

[Godder]

I'd like to congratulate Tragedy as the winner of 3CB Tournament #95! The old classic of Lotus-Rack-Balance finally got one. Meanwhile, Blackmail was amazing as well - forcing the discard of a land generally won on the spot. Interestingly, after totally dominating for two rounds, Sphere of Resistance saw no play at all! I intend to continue the concept of additional points for not broken decks, but the recent discussion on how many points to assign has been interesting, so rather than just flat-out continue with the current -10 points per breach, please vote in the poll, and I will edit in the result accordingly. Edit: For this one, Status Quo, but please keep discussing and voting in the poll, and I will use that for next time.

3CB Tournament #95 Card list:

Mesmeric Fiend
Nezumi Shortfang
Blackmail
Cabal Therapy
Abandon Hope
Pulse of the Dross
Pox
Mind Swords
Smallpox
Coercion
Nullstone Gargoyle
Form of the Dragon
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
The Rack
Balance
Glacial Chasm
Trinisphere
Null Chamber
Any deck that can have more than 2 mana in its mana pool on the first turn
Any deck that can force the opponent to discard more than one card in a turn
Any deck that can goldfish on turn 1
Any deck that can't win if the opposition does nothing e.g. Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Wheel of Torture (aka The Mise Prize, given out to decks that score lots of 2-2 draws)

Decks:

1   Elric   -   The Fungal Mafia   -   Bayou   Thallid   Blackmail
2   Illissius   -   Dark White   -   Maze of Ith   Icatian Store   Voidstone Gargoyle
3   Naphtali   -   Hypnox   -   Black Lotus   Show and Tell   Hypnox
4   Franz Ferdinand   -   A Man, A Plan...   -   Black Lotus   Smallpox   The Rack
5   Godder   -   Down on the Swamp   -   Bayou   Thallid   Duress
6   The Old Man   -   2 Many Lands   -   Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale   Mishra's Factory   Sheltered Valley
7   Yare   -   Horsemanship or Bust   -   Black Lotus   Dark Ritual   Zhang He, Wei General
8   Godder   -   MaskNought   -   City of Traitors   Illusionary Mask   Phyrexian Dreadnought
9   The Old Man   -   2 Many Goblins   -   Mountain   Goblin Lackey   Siege Gang Commander
10   Franz Ferdinand   -   Planes, Trains and Plantains   -   Black Lotus   Strip Mine   Lavaborn Muse
11   Technogeek5000   -   Using oldschool cards   -   Black Lotus   Energy Field   Flying Men
12   Naphtali   -   Snakes   -   Black Lotus   Snake Basket   Channel
13   ReAnimator   -   A good Tonglashing   -   Mishra's Workshop   Scalding Tongs   Ensnaring Bridge
14   Parallax   -   Return of Mono-Black Control   -   Strip Mine   Bottomless Vault   Visara the Dreadful
15   Technogeek5000   -   Using newschool cards   -   Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale   Mishra's Factory   Rishadan Port
16   ReAnimator   -   Slow and Boring   -   Sand Silos   Darksteel Reactor   Energy Field
17   Yare   -   What's a Cloudskate   -   Riftwing Cloudskate   Force Spike   Saprazzan Cove
18   Tragedy   -   Blatantly stealing and disregarding everything   -   Black Lotus   Show and Tell   Blazing Archon
19   Illissius   -   Minus 10, Plus X   -   Bayou   Thallid   Blackmail
20   Tragedy   -   Godder's signature deck   -   Black Lotus   The Rack   Balance

Results:

      1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   Bonus   Total   Position
1|   X   6   3   3   4   4   3   6   6   1   3   3   4   2   6   6   6   3   3   3   30   105   2
2|   0   X   2   0   6   6   6   6   6   0   2   0   0   2   2   2   2   2   0   0   40   84   13
3|   3   2   X   0   3   0   6   3   6   6   2   6   0   0   0   0   0   2   3   0   30   72   17
4|   3   6   6   X   3   6   6   6   6   6   2   3   6   6   6   2   2   6   3   3   10   97   4
5|   1   0   3   3   X   0   3   3   2   1   3   3   3   0   0   6   6   3   1   3   40   84   13
6|   1   0   6   0   6   X   6   0   6   0   2   6   2   0   2   0   6   6   1   0   40   90   7
7|   3   0   0   0   3   0   X   0   6   0   0   3   0   6   0   0   6   0   3   0   30   60   19
8|   0   0   3   0   3   6   6   X   6   0   0   1   0   0   6   3   6   0   0   0   40   80   15
9|   0   0   0   0   2   0   0   0   X   0   0   0   0   6   1   0   6   0   0   0   40   55   20
0|   4   6   0   0   4   6   6   6   6   X   0   0   6   6   6   6   6   0   4   0   20   92   6
1|   3   2   2   2   3   2   6   6   6   6   X   6   2   2   2   0   0   2   3   0   30   85   11
2|   3   6   0   3   3   0   3   4   6   6   0   X   0   6   0   6   6   0   3   0   30   85   11
3|   1   6   6   0   3   2   6   6   6   0   2   6   X   2   6   0   0   6   1   0   30   89   8
4|   2   2   6   0   6   6   0   6   0   0   2   0   2   X   6   6   6   6   2   0   30   88   9
5|   0   2   6   0   6   2   6   0   4   0   2   6   0   0   X   2   6   6   0   0   40   88   9
6|   0   2   6   2   0   6   6   3   6   0   6   0   6   0   2   X   6   6   0   0   40   97   4
7|   0   2   6   2   0   0   0   0   0   0   6   0   6   0   0   0   X   6   0   0   40   68   18
8|   3   2   2   0   3   0   6   6   6   6   2   6   0   0   0   0   0   X   3   0   30   75   16
9|   3   6   3   3   4   4   3   6   6   1   3   3   4   2   6   6   6   3   X   3   30   105   2
0|   3   6   6   3   3   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   3   X   10   112   1

Blackmail was far better than Duress this week, and storage lands were suddenly out in force as the format continued its deceleration. With the glacial speed, Lotus-Rack-Balance was an absolute monster, even giving up 30 points on most of the field! Again, 3land.dec (riffing off 43land.dec from Legacy...) was good, and Tabernacle really crunched most of the creature decks. It was also good to see some Strip Mines coming out to play...

For next time: The broken extravaganza continues! For now, 10 points per breach, but please vote in the poll for next time. Where individual cards breach a rule, I will only penalise once (e.g. Balance is on the list and will often cause decks to discard more than one card). Please note that cards must still be legal in Vintage.

Card list:

Mesmeric Fiend
Nezumi Shortfang
Blackmail
Cabal Therapy
Abandon Hope
Pulse of the Dross
Pox
Mind Swords
Smallpox
Coercion
Nullstone Gargoyle
Form of the Dragon
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
The Rack
Balance
Glacial Chasm
Trinisphere
Null Chamber
Any deck that can produce more than 2 mana on the first turn
Any deck that can force the opponent to discard more than one card in a turn
Any deck that can goldfish on turn 1
Any deck that can't win if the opposition does nothing e.g. Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Wheel of Torture (aka The Mise Prize)

3-Card Blind (3CB) is a very unique game. With thanks to Zoneseek, the rules are as follows:

• Your deck comprises 3 cards, all of which start in your hand.
• The library starts at 0 cards and you have no sideboard (Wishes fetch nothing).
• Random effects always go in your opponent's favour.
• All hands are revealed, so you always make the best possible play.
• You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card. If cards are put into your library, you draw normally.
• Other than the aforementioned, normal Magic rules apply.
• Decks are played against each other deck twice by the Moderator, once going first, once going second. For each win, you score 3. For each draw, you score 1. For each loss, you score 0.
• While it may seem obvious, decks may not use cards from the 3CB Banned List. Illegal decks and decks with illegal cards will be rejected.

To make an entry, PM your deck to Godder in the following format:

Subject: 3CB Tournament #96 Entry
Deck Name
Card #1
Card #2
Card #3

Optional Deck discussion, random sucking up, etc.

Entries close March 10. Players may enter up to two decks, but I reserve the right to restrict entries to one deck per player if sufficient entries are received, so please designate your preferred deck, just in case.

[Illissius]

X = 31, apparently. Not bad.

And I've always wondered: How do you decide the order to list the entries in? I've noticed mine being second and second to last more than once, even though I submit them within minutes of each other, while others' decks are spaced not far apart, and there doesn't appear to be any correlation between identical decks from different people, nor with deck names. Is there any pattern here?

[technogeek5000]

lotus-rack-balance does realy good in large formats because it cant score below a 3, nice job.

to bad my deck didnt work the way i thought. Good luck to everyone for next time.

[Tragedy]

lol, thanks, i thought that balance.dec would do good because this attendance has been high. Plus now i have a cool sig.

[Naphtali]

3 (Black Lotus   Show and Tell   Hypnox)
vs 4 (Black Lotus   Smallpox   The Rack)
Current: 0-6
Suggested: 3-3
On the play I get the hypnox into play with show and tell, they can have either a Rack or a Lotus, and then the rest of their hand is removed from play. Hypnox races rack.

vs 8 (City of Traitors   Illusionary Mask   Phyrexian Dreadnought)
Current: 3-3
Suggested: 6-0
On the draw, deck 8 gets COT, Mask on the first turn. I play everything, They can't mask the 'nought into play so they can either put it into play with the show and tell and then sac it to its own CIP ability, or they can hold it and have it removed from the game. Either way is good for me

vs 13 (Mishra's Workshop   Scalding Tongs   Ensnaring Bridge)
Current: 0-6
Suggested: 1-4
On the play they can show and tell for only the Bridge (Tongs and Workshop are then removed from play by hypnox) resulting in a draw.

vs 16 (Sand Silos   Darksteel Reactor   Energy Field)
Current: 0-6
Suggested: 2-2
Should be same result as 11. They can have the Energy Field in to play from the show and tell, but they can't have the energy field and the reactor.

vs 20 (Black Lotus   The Rack   Balance)
Current: 0-6
Suggested: 3-3
On the play they can't use show and tell to cast balance so they can have either the lotus or the rack, with balance and the other card removed from the game. Hypnox races both The Rack or a lonely Black Lotus

[Godder]

Some relevant Oracle wordings:

Hypnox
8BBB
Creature - Nightmare Horror
8/8
Flying
When Hypnox comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all cards in target opponent's hand from the game.
When Hypnox leaves play, return the removed cards to their owner's hand.

Show and Tell
2U
Sorcery   
Each player may put an artifact, creature, enchantment, or land card from his or her hand into play.

Because Show and Tell doesn't cause Hypnox to be played from hand (it's put into play, which has a different meaning in Magic), the RFG hand ability won't trigger. For more information, if needed, look into rulings on cards like Elvish Piper, Sneak Attack and Phage (Gatherer, SCG Ask the Judge or our own Rules Forum are good places to start).

X = 31, apparently. Not bad.

And I've always wondered: How do you decide the order to list the entries in? I've noticed mine being second and second to last more than once, even though I submit them within minutes of each other, while others' decks are spaced not far apart, and there doesn't appear to be any correlation between identical decks from different people, nor with deck names. Is there any pattern here?

If someone can figure it out, I'll give that person 10 points for the deck of their choice . As a hint, I use a spreadsheet, and I'm lazy.

[parallax]

Don't 1 and 19 beat 10 on the play by Blackmailing Strip Mine? I'd like my deck to at least have the distinction of being the only deck that doesn't lose to Blackmail when playing second.

[Elric]

I second parallax's point.  Clever deck, parallax, by the way.  I thought I'd beat every deck in the field on the play.

And I've always wondered: How do you decide the order to list the entries in? I've noticed mine being second and second to last more than once, even though I submit them within minutes of each other, while others' decks are spaced not far apart, and there doesn't appear to be any correlation between identical decks from different people, nor with deck names. Is there any pattern here?

If someone can figure it out, I'll give that person 10 points for the deck of their choice . As a hint, I use a spreadsheet, and I'm lazy.

Here's my guess:
Start with the previous week's entries, in the order they're listed. 
For each person who entered the previous week and again enters this week, you type their current deck(s) over their previous deck(s) (assuming you get the same number of deck entries). 
For each person who didn't enter the previous week but is entering this week, you take someone who entered last week but not this week and type over their spot.
If you have more entries this week than last week, you insert the new entries near the end.  If you have fewer entries this week than last week, you delete entries from near the end.

[Godder]

Don't 1 and 19 beat 10 on the play by Blackmailing Strip Mine? I'd like my deck to at least have the distinction of being the only deck that doesn't lose to Blackmail when playing second.

Good call - I completely missed that!

Here's my guess:
1. Start with the previous week's entries, in the order they're listed. 
2. For each person who entered the previous week and again enters this week, you type their current deck(s) over their previous deck(s) (assuming you get the same number of deck entries). 
3. For each person who didn't enter the previous week but is entering this week, you take someone who entered last week but not this week and type over their spot.
4. If you have more entries this week than last week, you insert the new entries near the end.  If you have fewer entries this week than last week, you delete entries from near the end.

I've numbered the points for ease of reference. 1 & 3 are correct, 4 is on the right track and 2 is correct but missing something. As an aside, I never get the same number of entries, so there are always some changes.

[technogeek5000]

i have a question and a statement. First the question.

How does dredge work in this format, do you automatically get it back into your hand every turn or because you have no library does it not dredge back into your hand.

Dredge requires cards in the library for it to work - Godder

I think Pulse of the dross can come off the list, it is basically a 3 cast blackmail in the sense that you win with it if you are on the play (who cares iff you get to use it again, youve probably already won) and also to use it you have to breach a rule and lose 10 points or play with a storage land and by the time you can cast it the opponents hand will be empty.

[Naphtali]

Because Show and Tell doesn't cause Hypnox to be played from hand (it's put into play, which has a different meaning in Magic), the RFG hand ability won't trigger. For more information, if needed, look into rulings on cards like Elvish Piper, Sneak Attack and Phage (Gatherer, SCG Ask the Judge or our own Rules Forum are good places to start).

Thanks for the explanation

[Illissius]

I would like to take a moment to argue against "one point per deck" as many people have voted for. It seems the simplest, but it's not the best. Thus far, whenever we've had 10ish decks, broken variants have finished near the back, whereas with 20ish decks, they do pretty well (occasionally winning, as now). Subtracting one point per deck would effectively lock them into the former situation -- losing 10 points with 10 decks, but also 20 points with 20, permanently relegating them to the status of also-rans. Subtracting a point for every two decks would cement the second situation; in which case broken decks are pretty good, but my feeling is that if we're going to have a broken extravaganza at all, then broken decks should at least be worth playing.

Edit --  When will the results of the poll be determined? It would be good to know before submitting a deck.

[Godder]

I wasn't sure how long to give it because I wanted there to be time for discussion and time for people who don't log on so often to see it and have their vote, too.

For now, status quo has a slight edge, so I'm thinking go with that this time, but keep the poll open and use the results in future tournaments. Thoughts?

[Illissius]

For now, status quo has a slight edge, so I'm thinking go with that this time, but keep the poll open and use the results in future tournaments. Thoughts?

Fine by me.

[Franz Ferdinand]

I'm kind of sick of this format. It's been a few rounds, switching it up for a little more originality would be a breath of fresh air, to me at least.

[Godder]

I'm kind of sick of this format. It's been a few rounds, switching it up for a little more originality would be a breath of fresh air, to me at least.

That's not unreasonable. What do others think? Perhaps a Trinisphere/Upwelling round? Back to the standard banned list? Add a stack more cards to the breach list to whip up some more originality?

[Elric]

Here's my guess:
1. Start with the previous week's entries, in the order they're listed. 
2. For each person who entered the previous week and again enters this week, you type their current deck(s) over their previous deck(s) (assuming you get the same number of deck entries). 
3. For each person who didn't enter the previous week but is entering this week, you take someone who entered last week but not this week and type over their spot.
4. If you have more entries this week than last week, you insert the new entries near the end.  If you have fewer entries this week than last week, you delete entries from near the end.

I've numbered the points for ease of reference. 1 & 3 are correct, 4 is on the right track and 2 is correct but missing something. As an aside, I never get the same number of entries, so there are always some changes.

Since it seems like no one else is going to take any guesses, mind saying how you decide the order to list the entries in?

[Godder]

I open the spreadsheet of the most recent one, as surmised.

Then, I go through and check decks. If someone is using a deck that I already have, I change the person's name for the entry.

After that, I go through and enter new decks for returning participants. If someone has been replaced because of the above process, their new deck will generally be added at the bottom somewhere.

Then I add new participants in the place of participants who aren't returning, as surmised.

If necessary, I add new participants at the bottom. I also avoid a participant having multiple consecutive entries by moving them around.

If necessary, I delete excess rows and columns and renumber accordingly.

[technogeek5000]

I say we do a block 3cb to keep it original. We could a time spiral block 3cb and ban a few ridiculous cards like restore balance.

I open the spreadsheet of the most recent one, as surmised.

Then, I go through and check decks. If someone is using a deck that I already have, I change the person's name for the entry.

After that, I go through and enter new decks for returning participants. If someone has been replaced because of the above process, their new deck will generally be added at the bottom somewhere.

Then I add new participants in the place of participants who aren't returning, as surmised.

If necessary, I add new participants at the bottom. I also avoid a participant having multiple consecutive entries by moving them around.

If necessary, I delete excess rows and columns and renumber accordingly.

(Golf claps)

[Scrappy Kid]

I'm kind of sick of this format. It's been a few rounds, switching it up for a little more originality would be a breath of fresh air, to me at least.

Ditto. My enthusiam for 3CB tends to decline when decks like Rack/Balance are winning.