[Deck] Turboland... I Think

[netherspirit]

I haven't posted on here for a while!

I started playing with a casual Fastbond deck a while ago and found that it was actually really fun and compared to most casual decks it could hold up really well. So, I decided to see if I could make it competetive; it developed into a deck very similar to Turboland but I never actually looked at other Turboland decks for help, so I don't know whether or not it could be called a Turboland deck.

Anyway, here's the deck!

Mana Base
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
5 Moxen
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mishra's Workshop
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine

Accelerants
1 Fastbond
4 Exploration
1 Channel

Card Draw
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Frantic Search
1 Gush
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
4 Horn of Greed
1 Timetwister

Permission
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Essentials
1 Zuran Orb
1 Dark Heart of the Wood
3 Crucible of Worlds

Random Broken Stuff
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Regrowth

The Kill
1 Tendrils of Agony

Well there it is, I guess I should explain the card choices.

Oboro - Gives me additional draws with Horn of Greed and Fastbond/Exploration; actually, this with Horn of Greed and Fastbond is equvalent to Yawgmoth's Bargain.

Mishra's Workshop - It makes a handy one-of because when im trying to "go off" it allows me to drop that essential Horn of Greed or Crucible of Worlds.

Strip Mine - Allows me to slow my opponent signifcantly in use with Crucible, and once I've got Crucible, Fastbond and Orb/Dark Heart I can destroy all my opponent's lands in order to combo safely.

Fastbond/Exploration - The heart of the deck really!

Channel - At first this seemed amazing, but I've found it's actually only good on turn one or two, otherwise it's quite weak. It's very useful if I can't quite play Crucible or Horn of Greed and can be good when comboing off occasionally, but it's really rather weak.

Frantic Search - I think this card can be used in nearly any combo deck. It allows you to ditch dead cards while replacing them with two new ones and untaps any broken lands such as Mishra's Workshop or Tolarian Academy.

Gush - So for zero mana I get two fresh cards and two more lands to power Horn of Greed? BROKEN!

Timetwister - Stops me decking out and gives me a fresh hand when I hit topdeck mode.

Force of Will and Mana Drain - I've always found decks like this to be a little slow, so permission is very important for them in my opinion; Force of Will is obviously amazing due to its alternate cost and Mana Drain is very useful as it allows me to drop an early Horn of Greed.

Zuran Orb - Obviously this is part of a combo with Fastbond and Crucible, but it also provides extra mana for Tolarian Academy. Unfortunately, though, it's very easy to stop with cards such as Null Rod and Pithing Needle.

Dark Heart of the Wood - Zuran Orb #2, but is a lot harder to hate against.

Regrowth - Only ever used to return Timetwister, therefore looping my library.

Well those are the explanations! Here are some possible changes I'm considering:

-1 Yawgmoth's Will
-1 Channel
+1 Tinker
+1 DSC
+1 Demonic Tutor
+1 Crop Rotation

Obviously if I were to add all four, though, I'd need to cut two more cards.

You have probably noticed I run no tutors; this is because the deck tends to just draw into more and more threats, even lands are threats once Horn of Greed is out. I usually manage to draw what I need very quickly as my draw package is so quick and efficient; and I have never found myself wishing I had a tutor in hand.

Well, there's the deck! Any comments, criticism or suggestions?

Thanks guys!

  netherspirit

[Guevara59]

I dont know much about Fastbond decks but this thread could help:                                                                                                http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31847.0

Hope it helps!!
Guevara59

[technogeek5000]

You should test null profusion/ recycle. They seem realy good here.

I would add crop rotation definately. It gets out that important workshop or academy.

You run waaaaaay to little lands for the fastbond and exploration to help.

Also i would either play more tendrills or manlands or tinker DSC because if they seek you or any other kind of pinpoint mill (jester's cap, extract) your screwed.

[dr.NASH]

+1 enlightened tutor
and instead of tendrils how about
+1 words of war or +1 test of endurance
I also count 14 non-will blue cards, have you considered daze?

[netherspirit]

I also count 14 non-will blue cards, have you considered daze?

Oooh, that could be very interesting.

As for Words of War - what if I sideboard it? That way I can play around things Misdirection more in g2 and 3 and I could side it in for g2 in the hope of them siding in Pithing Needle; at which point I could side it back out and bring Tendrils back in.

[Holmes]

Only one Tendrils as a kill card looks strange. Try adding a Cephalid Coliseum as an alternative kill, because you already have the Zorb-Crucible-engine there.

[meadbert]

I have played with Words of War in Turboland a lot.  Basically if you run 4 Bazaars then it is very good because it allows you to dodge a lot of incidental hate and it tears up Fishy type decks.

Even as a beatdown it is okay.  Doing 6 damage a turn any way you want is a big deal.  If you get multiple Bazaars out then Words of War is pretty broken.  doing 10 damage any way you choose is as fast or faster than a DSC (since you can do it the turn it comes into play)

Words of War is a nice way to continue to abuse Bazaar while staring down Graveyard hate.

With just one Bazaar Words of War is much worse.  It is a decent sideboard card if you need to add a win condition but it is not nearly as threatening.

With no Bazaars Words of War is pretty bad.  I would think Lava Dart would be better.

Regarding win conditions:  The top two win conditions in Turboland are Cephalid Colliseum and Barbarian Ring.  Colliseum fits perfectly into your blue based deck so that should be kill #1.  Barbarian Ring is much worse since it cannot produce blue.  Still it is a land which has synergy with Crucible and Horn of Greed.  Basically it is better than Tendrils before you want to go off and about the same when you do want to go off.  I think you will find that there is a lot more Tendills hate out there than Barbarian Ring hate.
In theory you can also use ring to remove annoying Welders and such.  If you have Crucible then you can:
1: Tap Barbarian Ring for red.
2: Strip Barbarian Ring
3: Replay Ring and tap for 2 damage.

In practice that is pretty clunky.

If you are going to run black then consider Sickening Dreams.  It can be great against Fish decks.  Sickening Dreams for 2 against SS wins you games.  The problem is it is pretty dead till you want to go off.

Cunning Wish and Burning Wish are okay as backup win conditions.  They each give you access to a Wishboard.  In the cast of Burning Wish you can do really silly stuff like put a Living Wish in the board and in that manner get back RFGed lands.

I have never gotten this to work right but Plagiarize could be amazing in this deck.

It has great synergy with Colliseum.  If you Plagiarize your opponent on his upkeep with Drain backup and it resolves, then you can activate Colliseum and make your opponent discard 3 and skip his draw while you draw 4.  This eight card swing is game breaking if you can pull it off.  The problem is the 6 mana required.  Also it can be difficult to establish threshold.

The fact that you found room for Mana Drains means that you can get the 6 mana much more easily.  Even if you have to Plagiarize during your turn the 6 card swing is huge.

Plagiarize has great synergy wtih Horn of Greed.  If you Plagiarize your opponent on his upkeep then you steal his draw.  Notice that is a 2 for 1 trade.  If you have a Horn of Greed out then your opponent must either miss his land drop or give you yet another draw.

Plagiarize is of course great in response to Ancestral Recall, Brainstorm, Thirst for Knowledge and other draw spells.

The Intuition AK draw engine is also worth considering.  It is strong by nature and works well with Mana Drain.  Also, Intuition can be used as a tutor to find your Crucible when you are ready to go off.  Also if you get Fastbond + Crucible out then you can use Intuition to find the rest of your combo (If you run Glacial Chasm instead of Zuron Orb)
Intuition also helps get Threshold if you are trying to abuse Plagiarize.


Lastly I would like to address Dark Heart of the Wood and Zuran Orb.  I detest Zuron Orb.  It is hated out by so many cards.  Basically every card that hates on Moxes hates on Zuron Orb.  Then you must add in Pithing Needle.  A short list:
Chalice of the Void
Null Rod
Gorilla Shaman
Engineered Explosives
Powder Keg
Goblin Welder
Pithing Needle

For me Glacial Chasm is the preferred way to keep Fastbond from killing me.  Generally Zuron Orb and Glacial Chasm are both pretty dead till you want to combo off.  The advantage of Chasm is that you can use it draw off Horn of Greed.  Also it randomly wins you games versus Aggro.  If you get Crucible out early and play a turn 3 Glacial Chasm versus Ichorid then that gives you about 4 turns to top deck your combo pieces.  It also is pain for Goblins, SS and other Fish decks.  They may run Wasteland, but it will usually take them several swings to defeat you.

Incidently Glacial Chasm is much worse thatn Zuron Orb versus Tendrils and when you have Necropotence out.

Nomad Stadium works as an infinite life engine in decks that have non damaging white source.  Your deck seems to lack that source so it probably will not work for you.

I have never tested Dark Heart of the Wood.  It does seem somewhat harder to hate out than Zuron Orb.

[lordmayhem]

How about Life from the Loam + Cycling lands?

[netherspirit]

How about Life from the Loam + Cycling lands?

Wouldn't that be quite mana intensive, though? At the moment the deck is very tight on mana until the point you "go off", when you usually end up with ridiculous amounts of mana.

[Judge_Julez]

I think the black tutors should be included - ie Demonic Tutor, Vampriric Tutor & Imperial Seal

If you manage to pull of the combo FASTBOND + ZURAN ORB + CRUICIBLE OF WORLDS then you have unlimited life and/or unlimited mana. At this stage GREED can replace NECROPOTENCE and you can simply draw all of your deck, play all f your deck and win 

[meadbert]

In general Life from the Loam is good in Turboland.  This is even more true as you make space for Bazaar of Baghdad.  The problem in this particular build is that Life from the Loam is a sorcery and you do not want to tap out during your turn and pull Mana Drain off line.

If you drop Mana Drain and replace it with Daze then Loam + Cycle lands can be quite good. 

[lordmayhem]

How about Life from the Loam + Cycling lands?

Wouldn't that be quite mana intensive, though? At the moment the deck is very tight on mana until the point you "go off", when you usually end up with ridiculous amounts of mana.

At first perhaps, but after a few dredges and returning lands to your hand, with an Exploration out, you'll be making plenty of mana. Btw I'm speaking of the Cycle 2 cycle not the coloured cycling ones.

The reason I'd advise using the Loam engine is that you shouldn't completely rely on Horn of Greed. True its a 4-of but you are not guaranteed to:

a) Draw it
b) Resolve it

So an alternative is gravy, drawing you more cards allowing you to draw into your Horn of Greed for one thing.

[meadbert]

Also, Life from the Loam is insane WITH Horn of Greed.  Basically you can turn any draw into three more lands and hence three more draws.

Fastbond + Horn + Life from the Loam usually = you draw your whole deck.

[Harlequin]

Isn't horn of greed not a "may" ability.  meaning you really only have finite life gain because eventually you will be forced to deck yourself?

[meadbert]

You must draw for Horn of Greed.  This means that if you want to win with Barbarian Ring recursion you either need a lot of red sources and to be careful or you need to have ways to remove your own Horns (Echoing Truth, Ancient Grude, Seal of Cleasing, Argivian Find->Seal of Cleansing)
It takes 10 activations of Barbarian Ring to kill an opponent.  If you are contiuously drawing into new red sources then this is 20 land drops which means you draw 20 cards.

That is usually safe.  If you have two Horns out you must draw 40 cards.  If you use a fetch mana base and have only 1 Taiga or use Barbarian Ring itself to produce red then you must make 3 land drops for each Ring activation.  This forces you to draw 30 cards with one Horn and 60 with two Horns.

It is worth noting that Argivian Find can grab a Black Lotus to get you 3 red mana so Argivian Find goes a long way towards keeping you alive since you can either generate red mana with it or remove your own Horns by finding out Seal of Cleansing.

When running a full set of Horns Sickening Dreams becomes much better.  It tears up fish, answers Empty the Warrens and occationally beats combo when they Necro for too much.

I always wondered if Perilous Research had a place in Turboland.  It removes your Horns as you go off.  Generally Null Rod is really good in Turboland, so I have always wondered if a list could run a full set of power, a full set of Null Rods and then use Perilous Research to sacrifice moxes that could not be used under Null Rod.

Perilous Research might work best in a Drain based Turboland build since the fact that Perilous Research is a Blue instant that draws cards has some Synergy.

Also, notice that Mana Drain and Null Rod actually have some synergy although they are rarely played together.

[dr.NASH]

A singleton Words of W____ would keep from decking, provide an alternative combo kill.  As has been stated before, Words of war with bazaar of bagdad can be extremely powerful.  Words of wilding can clog up Fish without much trouble. Words of wind is pretty much useless in vintage unless you are using it in you're own combo.  (Such as to bounce exploration and replay it to get another land play that turn.)  Words of worship will allow you additional land drops, if you are runnign low on life, but somehow I don't think you need to regularly expand your abundant resource in vintage.

[meadbert]

I played Words of Wilding in my board back when Stax was good.  Creating 3 creature tokens each upkeep is pretty good when your opponent is ramping smokey.

Generally Words of War is better.  It is well worth running if you have a full set of Bazaars.