[Deck] Food Chain Goblins

[JackyL]

Heres my current list...

// Lands
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Wooded Foothills
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Taiga
    5 Mountain

// Creatures
    3 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Skirk Prospector
    3 Goblin Warchief
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    4 Goblin Lackey
    3 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Recruiter
    1 Stingscourger
    3 Goblin Vandal

// Spells
    4 Food Chain
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Sol Ring

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Mogg Fanatic
SB: 3 Null Rod

Im planning to use the deck in an upcoming Vintage tourny in my area. I would really appriciate help optomizing the sideboard/maindeck for my meta which I will describe Below.

These are top 8 decks for the past two tournys

3x Meandeck Gifts
2x Ritual Gifts
1x Stax
2x U/W/b Fish
3x U/W Fish
1x Ichorid
1x Pitch Long
1x Oath

The general metagame is heavy Fish/Gifts like the top 8 decks. There are also some more rougish decks around too.

I know that Food Chain's weakest matchup is hardcore combo, though my deck has been doing better against Meandeck Gifts then I thought it would. I would really appriciate meta advice as well as tips in general and for playing the deck in certain matchups. I have read the FCG primer, and I have been play-testing for a few weeks. I'm new to vintage and I'm eger to improve, with your help of course. =P

[hitman]

I wouldn't play Food Chain.  About a third of your expected turnout will be packing Drains.  Goblin combo is slower and more fragile than 8 out of the 13 decks expected.  I'd up mainboard Red Blast effects to 4.  Mainboarding 4 Aether Vials will make your goblins uncounterable, instant speed, and free.  If it's Drained, your opponent only gets one mana off it.  You shouldn't mainboard Null Rod because half the decks you expect won't care about it so it'll be hit or miss.  If you're up against Fish/Stax, Aether Vial's better.  If your up against Long/Gifts combo, you have a bad matchup anyway and you can adjust games two and three for it.  Because you expect Stax (unknown version as far as I know) and Fish, Mogg Fanatic should be a 4-of in the maindeck.  Cut Recruiter for them.  Kiki-Jiki is good when you're already way ahead but garbage when you're behind.  I'd cut Kiki-Jiki and Sharpshooter for 2 more Gempalm Incinerators. 

My sideboard would look something like this:

3 Gempalm Incinerator - for Fish
4 Shattering Spree - for Stax
1 Pyroblast - for Gifts
4 Null Rod - for Long
3 Blood Moon - for Oath (good luck in that matchup)

My mainboard would look something like this:

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron - red Demonic Tutor for goblins (always 4)
4 Goblin Ringleader - red Fact or Fiction for goblins (always 4)
2 Siege-Gang Commander

4 Aether Vial
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

5 Red Fetchlands
9 Mountain
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt

Goblins will own half the field and die to the other half if you're playing good players.  Blood Moon could be something else (especially because of the casting cost, but I couldn't think of anything that would really hose Oath).  I think Oath will be your hardest matchup by far.  Maybe 3 Stingscourgers would be better in the side to help the matchup.  Good Luck.

[Harlequin]

For your meta definately give up on Food Chain.  FCG is certainly a thing of the past.  Goblins however is certainly a vialble deck.  It's got sub-combo speed, but super-powered aggro as compaired to fish decks.

6 Fetchlands
6 Moutains
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Sol Ring, Mana Crypt

3 Lotus, Ruby, petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
- 18+7 = 25 mana-

3 Null Rod
3 Blood Moon
4 Red elemental blast
-10-

4 Lacky
4 Pile Driver
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Sharpshooter
1 Kiki-jiki
1 Goblin Welder <-- so good
1 Siegegang
-35-


Board:
4 Gempalm incinerator
1 Sharp Shooter
3 Shattering Spree
2 Goblin Welder
1 Null Rod
1 Blood Moon
3 Pyroblast


Board Plans:
Gifts --
-4 Ringleader
-1 Matron
-1 Kikijiki
+1 Rod
+1 Moon
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Sharpshooter
> The concept is Ringleader is too good of a drain target, and your cutting goblins for non-goblins.  You need to keep a welder in, and you may even want to make space to side in a few more welders.  This way you can answer needle on Sharpshooter (so you can answer empty the warrens).  If you can land an early moon or rod, save those pyro/rebs to keep it on the board.  Also welder can weld in a countered null rod if you are fortunate enough to hit an artifact in the early game.  Welder lastly is a great answer to tinker.

Fish --
-4 Matron/Rebs
-1 Welder
+4 Gemplam
+1 Sharpshooter
> I would not take out Null Rod against fish.  If you win game one - you might try it... But there is a very good chance that fish is going to be boarding out thier rods for jite's.  You may also want to sneak in that 4th moon, esp if they are 3 color, because it's unlikely they are running very many islands and highly unlikely they are running non-blue basics.  REB is not great agianst fish because the biggest threats are Grunt and confidant, they also might be siding out thier meddling mages if they have better tricks in the board, like STP.

Stax --
-4 Rebs
-3 Rods
+3 Shattering Spree
+1 Blood Moon
+2 Welders
> Fairly straight forward.  Moon is really good for stoping wastland and stripmine and workshop itself.  Rod does surprising little to stop a good shop deck.  Welders and Shattering sprees will help seal the deal.  Remeber you can Matron up a Welder, and that welder gains haste under ringleader.

Oath--
-3 Rods
-4 Rebs
+4 Gempalm incinerator
+1 Sharp Shooter
+2 Welder
> Well, just throw goblins at them.  Constant stream of gobs followed up by a solid hasted piledriver swing for lethal.  Remeber that you get at least one free swing at them after they cast an oath - so make it as good as you can.

[acidfreak]

For your meta definately give up on Food Chain.  FCG is certainly a thing of the past.  Goblins however is certainly a vialble deck.  It's got sub-combo speed, but super-powered aggro as compaired to fish decks.

Why would you not play food chain? Is there a difference wether they drain a Food Chain or a 3-mana goblin? To me FCG is a super-powered aggro deck that also happens to have a combo kill.

[islanderboi10]

For your meta definately give up on Food Chain.  FCG is certainly a thing of the past.  Goblins however is certainly a vialble deck.  It's got sub-combo speed, but super-powered aggro as compaired to fish decks.

Why would you not play food chain? Is there a difference wether they drain a Food Chain or a 3-mana goblin? To me FCG is a super-powered aggro deck that also happens to have a combo kill.

More disruption.

Without foodchains in the deck, you can drop the Taigas(if you choose) and run Mountains.  This is good against Fish/Stax.
Also, without Foodchains in the deck, you can maindeck Bloodmoon and Null Rod.  These are both bombs against a lot of decks.

[acidfreak]

I was thinking about dropping food chain and just play the fastest version of goblins availeble, with four maindeck Thormod's Crypts, and four extra Leyline of the Voids in the SB. That way you have 0-mana hosers against most combo decks so you can use all your mana for the goblin offensive, hoping that the hosers give me that one extra turn i need before i die to combo decks.

Artifacts
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
4 Tormod's Crypt

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Welder
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Siege-gang Commander

Basic Lands
10 Mountain

Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Null Rod
4 Shattering Spree

Any comments? (also on the sideboard, kind of thrown together).

Prospector or not? Goblin Vandal or Goblin Welder? Chalice o/t Void or Null Rod?

[hitman]

@ acidfreak - 4 Tormod's Crypt is too many.  It's not a game ending bomb, just a good stall tactic.  You don't want to draw two.  If you're not playing Aether Vial, play Null Rod.  Leyline in the board is probably wrong.  It's not good against Long or Gifts because they play so many tutors.  It's not hard to just bounce it and leave you with a dead card in hand.  They might not even play out of the graveyard if you play it anyway.  Empty the Warrens is pretty good.  It's good against Ichorid/Dragon if you're worried about them.

I think trying to outrace other decks as a general gameplan is wrong.  Goblins can't realistically race Dragon, Oath, Gifts, Long, or Slaver.  You have to give up a little speed to disrupt your opponent so you can feasibly "outrace" them. 

@ Harlequin - That's why I thought Blood Moon might be wrong in the board in my first post.  It costs too much.  As the beatdown, you want disruption that doesn't hinder your own gameplan.  Paying three mana for anything other than a goblin could lose you the game.  For instance, you play Blood Moon, they play Mana Drain, Force of Will, float mana and bounce Moon, go infinite in response, or just fetch basics, and you've wasted a whole turn and three mana.  That's lethal in matchups where you're the slower deck to begin with.

[Harlequin]

I don't see how a 3 mana goblin is any differant...

For instance, you play -Goblin-, they play Mana Drain, Force of Will, float mana and bounce -Goblin-, go infinite in response, or just fetch basics, and you've wasted a whole turn and three mana.  That's lethal in matchups where you're the slower deck to begin with.

so lets pick a goblin ... like Sharp Shooter.  Playing Sharp Shooter may make your kill 1 turn faster, but that may not matter.  They may even hold back those counterspells to hit your Pile Driver or Warchief.  Blood Moon generally must be answered.  Even if they fetch up 2 basic islands, you have bought yourself at least 2-3 turns by cuting off access to DT, Vamp, and Will.

You even admit that "you're the slower deck" so how can the slower deck hope to be the beatdown deck?  You either need to win now, or keep your opponenet off the win long-engough to win first.  I just can't think of a 3 mana goblin that is more devistating to my opponent than bloodmoon would be.

[hitman]

First, the reason I said playing a spell that costs three mana should be a goblin is because that's what the deck does.  You can't win if you don't cast goblins.  If your own disruption can cost you the game, it's no good.  Regardless of that, you have to cast goblins to win if you're playing goblins.  Why run disruption that's so shaky?  By the time you have the mana, are you seriously going to waste a turn casting the card when it's unlikely it will resolve or stay in play?  The only time a card like that should ever be played is when you have the mana to spare, as in decks that run full acceleration, or when it's an utter bomb that essentially ends the game.  The reason I suggested it as an option against Oath is because the most recent successful builds play zero basic lands.  Pyroblast/R.E.B. costs one and is really good against many of the decks that are faster than you.  Why would you not play that maindeck over Blood Moon, especially since you play SSG?

Second, I said you're the beatdown because that's all you can be.  You sure aren't control or combo.  You have to take the beatdown role. 

[acidfreak]

Ok, so i played goblins with maindeck crypts and cabal therapies in a t1 tourney last week. I was 20th out of 41. I learned that crypts should be in sideboard, therapy really sucks in goblins and that mogg war marshal is decent, but not great (although it did win me a game against stax just by stacking all four marshalls on top of my deck and let the other guy die from his own smokestack).

So next time i'm playing food chains, here is my new list:

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
1 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Goblin Matron
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Siege-Gang Commander

4 Food Chain

3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
5 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Thormod's Crypt
4 Null Rod
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin King
1 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Naturalize

[Mark_Story]

I personally would think that harlequin's list is more in line with something you would want to continue playing.  As someone who played alot of FCG back in the day, food chain is probably one of the weakest cards in the whole deck.  I think in the current meta that bloodmoon and null rod, (especiall null rod) are far better options.  I say null rod is the most important factor as how many games have we all seen fish win because of null rod?  I have personally seen quite a few. 

I also think that FCG goblins suffers from some of the same problems that bomberman can.  The combo part of the deck is slower than your opponent most of the time.  Trying to race a combo deck with a slower combo simply won't work.  You either need to incorporate disruption or find an alternative way of winning.  With the resurgence of fish (at least in toronto) it seems like goblins are poised to make a impact on the meta.  I was personally thinking of testing a u/R goblins.  Using null rod, In the eye of chaos/blood moon, and perhaps mana leak / delay as disruption.  Complemented by the usual assortment of goblins and land destruction I think it might not be half bad.

[the boogie man]

Have you considered adding blue? You could cut the taigas and the food chains and add volcanics and daze. This would also allow you to play ancestral, time walk, bounce, and still run pyroblast and the like. If you put enough blue cards in, you could even run force. but daze is a really strong addition. It can lead to the back-breaking volcanic->lackey play, with free backup. Not to mention that it works in almost every scenario.

[Harlequin]

Going for blue takes the deck an entirely differant dirrection.  For a while I was testing a Counter Golbins list that was fairly close to the following:

6 Blue Fetchlands
4 Volcanics
2 Steamvaluts
3 Mountains
3 Ancient Tomb

1 Ruby
1 Sapphire
1 Chrome Mox
-21-

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Curiosity
1 AR
1 Timewalk
1 Time Twister
3 Null Rod
-17-

4 Lackey
4 Piledriver

3 Warchief
3 Ringleader
3 Matron
2 Razorfin Hunter

1 Seigegang
1 Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Welder
-22-
-------------------

Board:
4 Extract
4 Gempalm / Etruth /etra welders
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Jite


The blue count is 16.  A bit low for FOW, but it doesn't really matter.  FOW is just too good ^_^   Maybe mana leak in that spot would be better...

I'm not so sure how this deck will preform in the post-FS meta.  Ichorid, Flash, and faster more reliable combo will problably drive this deck into the groud.   

On the other hand, this deck has an amazing game against Slaver!  And a pritty good game against gifts. 

The basic Idea of the deck is that with Piledriver and 2-3 other goblins ... you win.  You don't need to win in one turn - you just want to win.  I really like Curiosity as a card.  With the Rootwater hunters, you can even shoot over enemy blockers.  I'm sure most people would run Brainstorms in that spot, but I stand by Curiosity being better. 

Turn 1 Lackey+Daze, turn 2 Curiosity+swing is amazingly difficult for control to beat.

[the boogie man]

   i think that matron loses potency with the removal of food chain, and can be removed for something more aggressive. I also think that the welder is unnecessary. The chrome mox, some mountains, and some tombs/vaults can also be cut for strip effects, to compliment the counterspells. A lotus is missing as well.

   I believe that there should be another sharpshooter, another seige-gang, a couple gempalm incinerators (for removal), and a full compliment of recruiters, and maybe a few, if not a full set of those guys that sack a goblin for 1 red. I think that the recruiters are absolutely necessary, as they allow you to do small, back-breaking plays like stacking a few piledrivers, which get better exponentially.

[xycsoscyx]

:O  Matron is a Tutor with a 1/1 body, how is that not potent?  Need more creatures, get a Ringleader.  Need more damage, get a Piledriver.  Need to get rid of a traiterous Welder, get a Mogg!  I'd honestly be wary of running anything less than 4 Matrons unless you have a replacement (tutors or such if you're running Black, or drawing if you're running Blue).  The benefit of Matron over tutors or drawing is that, of course, you can still keep her off a Ringleader (which can be vital when you need a particular Goblin).

Sharpshooter is great as a one of, you'll find games where multiples is just broken, but for the most part, a singleton works.  Seige-Gang is great and I'd dare say good enough to run in multiples, but can be a bit of a burden when you're stick without a Lackey or enough Mana to play him.

[the boogie man]

   It's very true that it's a tutor with a body, but it's still a 1/1, and a 1/1 that costs three mana. that seems far too slow. matron doesn't set up the combo in this deck, because there really isn't that much of a combo to set up. I would rather play a different threat than a 1/1 that costs a whole lot of mana. That is basically wasting a turn. i would cut them entirely.

[Harlequin]

Demonic Tutor:  1 colorless 1 color - Search your library for any card and put it into your hand.

Goblin Matron: 1 colorless 1 color - Search your library for any* card and put it into your hand.  Then pay 1 colorless to put a 1/1 red goblin into play.

In Blue-Goblins the gameplan is completely differant from basically any other build.  The plan is to win small - like a control deck.  Recruiter is not a win small card, theres no need to stack 4 pile drivers - One will usually do.   

The type of goblins you play is highly dependant on your metagame:

Blue/Counter Goblins - Good against Slaver and decent against gifts.  Not very good against pure aggro and has about an even match-up agains fish and perhaps combo.
Highlights: FoW, Daze, Extract in the board.

Pure Red Goblins - Good against fish and perhapse slaver.  Has a fair match against pure aggro.  Probably gets destroyed by pure combo and possibly Gifts.
Highlights: Lean and mean.  Gempalms, fanatics, blood moon.

FC/GCB Green Splash Goblins -
Its a combo deck so it destroys aggro.  Has a decent game against fish and might be able to race gifts.  Offer nothing in the way of disruption.
Highlights: Food Chain, Goblin Charbelcher, and Recruiter.

My main point is that you can't do it all.  You need to derive your meta, and pick a flavor of goblins to match it.  Remember the deck is confined to 60 cards, so you can't just add recruiters and gempalms to blue-goblins without subtracting from the primary gameplan.  Without a clear gameplan you end up with a mish-mash deck... wich typically will be out of contention by round 4.

[the boogie man]

But you have to pay all three mana at once, and it does not search for any card, it searches for a creature that you can play next turn and attack with in 2 turns. far too slow in a deck that does not have a combo finish.

[Harlequin]

How is recruiter any faster?  The card you want doesn't even go to hand.  If anything its the same speed because you can theoretically play it a turn earlier.... but if you draw it on turn 3-4 then its acatually a turn slower than matron.

Also recruiter opens up the possiblity to loose to a top-deck Stripmine (if you stack your deck and they kill your mana).  You ensure that for the next 3 turns you're getting land-screwed.

I think Matron is the perfect card for a deck with a "non-combo win."  It lets you get a spesific answer to the problem at hand.  To me, That is the definition of winning small.  In my experiance Matron gets one of 3 cards: welder, Sharpshooter, or SGC. 

Forgive me if my tone is changing, but I am really having a hard time invisioning what deck you propose.  I've given a list for mono-red, and for blue/counter gobs.  It appears that your suggesting cutting 3 cards from the deck and adding 10 to 12?  Show me a list, and I'll be glad to engauge you with my counterpoints.  But at this point your arguing cutting real cards from a listed deck for theorectical "better threats."

[the boogie man]

Sorry if I seem stubborn, but here is a rudimentary list that I think I like:

Mana:

4 volcanic
6 red fetch
5 strips
2 mountains
2 mox
lotus
2 simian spirit guide

4 street wraith

4 daze
2 ancestral walk
twister
2 brainstorm
4 force
3 null rod

4 piledriver
4 lackey
1 sharpshooter
2 siege-gang
2 hunter
4 warchief

     I do agree that recruiter seems slow, though. I have to leave in a hurry, be back later.

[Mark_Story]

I think street wraith is a terrible choice in this deck.  Brainstorm or curiosity would be far better.  Sure wraith cycles for free, making your deck 56 cards.   But honestly what else does it contribute to the game plan of this deck. As an aggro control deck, the minor draw that street wraith can provide are totally eclipsed by the fact that counter goblins is a slower flavor of goblins, and not a combo deck.  I think the deck should be focusing more on solid disruption and fast efficient beats. Things that goblins have always done well. In the disruption category you can easily run the following:

mana leak - all around ok, can lose its potency over time
delay - the new mana leak, giving you a 3 turn head start on any really dangerous spell should give you ample time to deal with it, however eventually the spell will resolve which can be a big problem.
disrupt - cantriping daze, pretty hot in legacy right now and could be effective in vintage as well, but easily played around.
remand - I don't know how effective this would be as your kill isn't always going to come through the before the enemy gets another turn.
daze - see disrupt but add free as in beer, for card drawing.

I feel that null rod will be essential to a counter goblins strategy.  Other solid disruptive cards could be in the eye of chaos, blood moon, pyrostatic pillar.  All are slightly meta game dependant.

I would suggest a list along these lines.

4 goblin lackey
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin warchief
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 siege-gang commander
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
4 goblin matron

4 force of will
4 daze / mana leak
4 curiosity / brainstorm
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 chain of vapor

2 blood moon 
3 null rod

1 black lotus
1 mox ruby
1 mox sapphire

4 volcanic islands
1 island
3 mountain
4 wasteland
1 stripmine
2 polluted delta
3 wooded foothills

I think a list similar to this runs a better balance of threats and counters without many of the dead cards like street wraith and simian spirit guide.

[the boogie man]

Street wraith helps you to get to your better cards faster. It may not draw as many cards, but it draws them fast and free, leaving you more mana to lay down beats. And I agree with the blood moons. I also think that mana leak and all of the other two mana counters are no good in this deck. they force you to keep two mana open, which is a critical point in this deck. Even in your deck, I think that saving 2 mana really isn't an option. I think a couple o fincinerators wouldn't be horrible, as they can kill ichorid and fish creatures.

Also, I really cannot agree on the matron. When you play her, sure you have a creature and a goblin tutor, but that will tap you out unless it is really late in the game. Early in the game, I really don't think that tapping out is an option at that point in the game. you could either be laying a more potent threat (piledriver or blood moon) or casting a draw spell. I think that you are trying to play this as an aggro-control deck, but I don't think that is what goblins is. This is an aggro deck. Look at fish. even fish does not run two-mana counterspells. It was good in food chain goblins, because you could finish combo pieces or create mana by continuously searcing for them, but I think that they are unnecessary in this build.

[weedian]

Boogie man, are you seriously calling Matron bad.

Warchief = Matron costs 1R plus hasted

= Piledriver for 1 red also hated.

Warchief = the best card in the deck.