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Author Topic: Top 4 at Monster Den with Cerebral Assassin  (Read 12889 times)
moxpearl
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« on: April 16, 2007, 10:09:24 pm »

And now for something completely different…

The Twin Cities, Minnesota.  Currently, home of the jankiest metagame, where you can expect the unexpected.  Why not try to revive a little known outdated deck and have some fun with Sundering Titan, one of my favorite vintage creatures (2nd to Auriok Salvagers, of course!)  18 people showed up at the Monster Den for the monthly vintage tournament.  25 were needed for the ancestral, so we were playing for $225 cash instead. 

A year ago, I could always count on the usual suspects -- gifts, slaver, tps, 5c stax, uba stax, and oath, with tier 1 decks showing up at the top tables.  However, this year, the metagame at the Monster Den has been chock full of random and hate decks.  The past few months have had SS with leaks and no erayo, enchantress, a 5c stax deck with bobs, karn, and smokeys, counterbalance control, a myriad of TMWA types, illusionary mask, and tons of fish of all varieties.  Even the standard decks are odd, such as an oath deck packing colossi and dragon’s breath. 

With my newly acquired bazaars, I wanted to try Dragon.  WGDX seemed like a great choice, but with all the swords, stifles, crypts, and extripates, I didn’t think it was viable.    However, if not Dragon, why not Sundering Titan?  He is so much fun to get into play.  Swords?  Sure, lose three lands.  Stifle?  Sure, take on a 7/10 beater and lose lands when you get rid of him.  Crypt the grave?  I’ve got more toys to animate.  What’s the fastest deck that gets 7/10 into play?  Cerebral Assassin.

Competitive?  Maybe not, but it looked extremely fun.  So, I sleeved it up, tested it, made some changes, and decided to give it a try. 

Monster Den Cerebral Assassin:
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
1 underground river
1 shivan reef
4 bazaar
1 academy
1 vault of whisper

5 moxen
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 sol ring

1 worldgorger dragon
2 7/10
1 eternal witness
1 triskelion
4 goblin welder
2 squee, goblin nabob

3 animate dead
2 reanimate
1 vampiric tutor
1 demonic tutor
1 yawgmoth’s will
4 duress
1 entomb

1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 tinker
3 intuition
2 careful study
2 deep analysis
1 echoing truth

SB:
1 sulfurous springs
1 duplicant
1 razormane masticore
1 darkblast
2 tormod’s crypt
1 foil possessed portal (I don't normally play foil, but this one is so cool looking)
1 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
1 balance
2 Shattering Spree
3 Ray of Revelation

Main changes from the lists I’ve seen :
Squees – just 2 instead of 3 or 4.  Squee is a slow draw engine with today’s fast paced decks.  However, this legend still helps offset all the card disadvantage discarding.  Squee is also helpful with SB Possessed Portal and Razormane.

2  Deep Analysis –DA is a faster draw than squee, though against fish decks, the -3 life hurts.  Intuition for 2 DA and 7/10 is a popular pile.  Why not 4 DA and no squee?  The flashback life loss along with cities and painlands eat away at your life very fast.  I settled on a mix of 2 squee and 2 DA.

4 Duress – I’ve seen some lists with Force of Will or Xantid Swarms.  There’s not enough blue to pitch for force and the deck already has too much card disadvantage.  The Xantids can be slow and cannot stop combo (which is the deck’s worst match-up.) 

Artifact Toys – I’ve seen Platinum Angel, Duplicant, and Possessed Portal in the main deck, but I chose to leave them in the SB.  There is so little room in this deck, so 7/10 had to shoulder most of the burden of winning. 

Careful Study – I tested Read the Runes, but the mana cost was too much.  Since there are less instant tricks, Study for U usually equals RTR for U2, so RTR is only better when you have 3 extra mana sitting around.  I’ve also seen Thirst for Knowledge, but three mana is tough to get in a wasteland heavy environment.

This tournament was full of fish.  Bob fish.  Disk Fish.  Counterbalance Fish.  RWB Fish (tmwa.)  And there were a few variations of gifts, combo, and oath decks.  The dust settled after four rounds, and the Top 8 contained UWB fish, UB fish with mesmeric fiend, UW fish deck, ETW gifts, Slaver gifts, 5C-Bob Stax, and another decks I wasn’t sure of, and of course my MDCA deck. 

On to the matches:

Match 1 – UW Landstill
Game 1, the early turns consisted of leaks and swords battling summoned, animated, and reanimated welders.  Finally one stuck, and I was able to discard and weld a 7/10, smashing his two tundras.  At 4 life, he played Balance and my gas was gone.  However, he soon fetched to drop to 3, and I top decked Triskelion to win.
Game 2, He mulled and kept a Black Lotus and brainstorm hand with six cards.  When I dropped a welder, he brainstormed and mana leaked.  I had reanimate and intuitioned for 7/10 who stomped for the win.
Matches 1-0, Games 2-0

Match 2 – 5C-Bob Stax
I’ve seen this deck lock the board down only to lose to his own Bob.  This player is a gambler with Bob.
Game 1, he opens with Eye of Chaos...nice, for me.  However, later, he locks me out with crucible, wasteland, and Karn beating for the win. 
Game 2, I open with ancestral, discarding Dragon.  Next turn, I RE-animate dragon for a 7/7 flying attacker (the only time WGD saw play this tournament.)  He echoing truth’s my dragon and the game returns to normal.  But, I eventually get out two welders with reoccurring triskelion and 7/10 to win.
Game 3, He opens with Leyline of the Void, which I didn’t see coming at all.  I had one echoing truth for it, but it was practically over for me.  Without tinker in hand, I switch to plan C with the turn one play of emerald, pearl, city of brass and Eternal Witness!  My opponent plays welder and balances me to zero cards.  EW beats for like 8 as my opponent plays chalice at zero and 1.  His welder finally blocks to stop my aggro attack.  I play Razormane Masticore and he has little to stop it.  Time is called and he plays Demonic to play Karn.  I ping Karn and attack and he doesn’t block, dropping him to 1 life.  He topdecks Smokestack to add a blocker.  In my remaining two turns, I’m not able to get through his two blockers.
Matches 1-0-1, Games 3-1-1

Match 3 – Blue control with Trinket Mages and Tops.
Game 1, I have to mull to five and I keep a bad hand with no lands, but with welder and ancestral hoping to draw a land.  A few turns later I get a 2-squee/bazaar engine going but it’s too late.  He’s able to tinker out colossus with trinket mage to assist.  After taking 13, I weld out the colossus, but his trinket mage beats for the win.
Game 2, early on, he gets out Trinket Mage, lotus, and top.  I duress and he brainstorms protecting a counter.  Next turn, he uses lotus to counter a threat, but I’m now free to tinker out 7/10, only destroying 1 island.    He’s get out a Morphling, but I animate another 7/10 to join the bunch and even Superman can’t save him.
Game 3, I can’t remember the details, but he gets stuck on low mana, and I get out double welders early with 7/10.
Matches 2-0-1, Games 5-2-1

Match 4 – ID into top 8.

Top 8:
Quarterfinals – UWB Fish
Unfortunately, this is my friend Brad, and we obviously didn’t want to meet in the quarterfinals.
Game 1, I open with land, lotus, duress (see swords, standstill, mage, and lands), take swords, and he drops a mage naming animate dead.  I vampiric for ruby, play welder, and then tinker for titan.   With his manabase crippled, he’s not able to recover. 
Game 2, he gets out an early confidant, and I intuition (getting forced and REB’ing back) for darkblast, 7/10, and DA.   He gives me 7/10 and plays mage naming darkblast.  I’m able to drop 2 welders, but he topdecks mystical with confidant, gets echoing truth, and beats for the win.
Game 3, I get out an early welder, but he vamps for darkblast killing my welder.  I duress seeing lots of lands, and I demonic for tinker.  He drops grunt and I tinker 7/10 into play.  He’s able to get up to three lands with echoing truth and stifle to stop the 7/10, but I have a welder on the board and intuition in hand and he scoops after the intuition gets another 7/10, trisk, and random card with bazaar in play.
Matches 3-0-2, Games 7-3-1

Semifinals – Slaver with Gifts
Game 1, I get a decent hand with welder, lotus, reanimate, gemstone, DA, and bazaar.  Little do I know, but he has the nutz with black Lotus, lots of artifact mana, yawgs, recoup, gifts, drain after a brainstorm.  He drops a land, mox, sol ring, and I drop the welder turn one.  Next turn, I decide to use the lotus to DA, he Thirsts in response.  It resolves and I get ancestral in the next two, but still no titan.  He gets drain mana up.  I draw petal and decide to flashback DA, which he drains, and I play ancestral resolving, but I get no titan or mox.  I can bazaar, but at that point I would need to draw mox and titan, so I decide to wait.  He combos out next turn with my DA mana.  Probably should have gone for the small chance.
Game 2, I mulligan into double welder, two lands, animate, and dragon, and I play a welder.  He opens with land, welder, mox, vault.  Not good for me.  I drop another welder, but still no discard outlet.  Next turn, he plays a land.  Turn three, I still don’t get a discard outlet, and on his turn, he thirsts slaver to the grave and that’s all she wrote. 
Matches 3-1-2, Games 7-5-1

The SlaverGifts and UB Fish split the top 2 prize.

Post-tourney thoughts:
- The careful study’s worked well.  I might need one more or maybe one TFK because I found myself a few times needing another discard outlet.
- Getting DA with intuition against fish is bad, because the loss of life adds up
- I didn’t use Yawgs, WGD/animate, or Possessed Portal once.  They’re what makes this deck strangely fun, so I’m disappointed the opportunity never presented itself.
- Don’t dilute your deck too much when sideboarding.  Even with hate on the board, you always have a few more options to win.  With this deck, it doesn’t seem to works to SB answers for answers against you.  They can just become dead cards and this deck wants to get toys into play fast.

Props:
To Jason, the owner of Dreamers and Monster Den, who continues to support this awesome format on a monthly basis.
To the newer players coming out for vintage.  The old vintage rank and file in the Twin Cities is no where to be found, so it’s great to see new faces at the tournament.
To the players trying out new inventions and decks, even if they aren’t top tier.  Seeing weird combinations of old cards is one of the reasons this format is a lot of fun.

Slops:
To Wizards, for continuing to make Ichorid better, and graveyard hate more popular.  It's so hard to play a Bazaar deck these days.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 07:23:03 pm by moxpearl » Logged
RaleighNCTourneys
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2007, 10:34:52 pm »

Thanks for the report! Just curious- why did you guys only do 4 rounds?
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2007, 12:35:33 am »

I played at this tournement and had a great time.  No joke that it is the jankiest metagame I have ever heard of, granted Ive only played in Minneapolis and Madison.  I used one of those versions of TMWA with little success, however at 2 of the last 3 months at the Monster Den I made top 4 with it.  My version runs few creatures and is more of a hide/seek control with 4duress, 4REB, 4bob, and 4grunts all maindecked.  This month everyone was playin different versions if TMWA and I lost the mirror in the first round which was running sedge slivers.  I ended up 2-2-0 and ranking 10th or 11th I think.  I lost the mirror first round, beat oath the second, beat gifts with severence/belcher/ETW/DSC all maindecked 3rd, and lost to a UB fish type deck with mesmeric fiends in round 4.  That lucky dude got lotus and confident/fiend both games plus 2 confidents G1 and 3 in G2.  I had no chance even with my EE.  Gotta love broken draws in vintage. 

I brought my good friend anthony with me this time for his second tournement in 4 years.  The first was 2 months ago and he made top 4 with oath.  I guess he was one of the new faces.  Unfortunately he lost every round this month Sad  I hope it doesnt discourage him from going next month.

My brother (Methuselahn) played workshop/mask/drednaught, and got hosed out by all the RWB decks in this janky format.  Poor meta choice I guess.

All in all I was really surprised to see 4 RBW decks in a tournement with only 19 people, but I guess I can be thanked by having success with it on a few occasions in the past (ego boost). 

The last thing I have to say is that Jason at the Monster Den really is a great guy, and thanks to him there is a vintage community in the Twin Cities.  I look forward to next month.

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moxpearl
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2007, 07:50:33 pm »

Thanks for the report! Just curious- why did you guys only do 4 rounds?

The owner mentioned he thought there would be a lot of drawing-in in the fifth round, but I'm not sure that's more true than keeping it at four rounds.  The top 4 seeds drew in this time, so I can't imagine it would be much worse than that.  Four rounds is really cheesy when there is an odd number and a bye, because that person can win just one of the next two matches and draw into the top 8.  He does close the store on Sundays after the Vintage tournament ends, so it does allow him to go home early.  Being a family man myself, it's no big deal to me as I don't mind going home a bit earlier too.

All in all I was really surprised to see 4 RBW decks in a tournement with only 19 people, but I guess I can be thanked by having success with it on a few occasions in the past (ego boost). 

And my other friend who sometimes makes the tournament could have made it 5 RBW decks if he was free.   I remember when you switched from Affinity to RBW and you were the only one playing it.  Now, it's ironically at this tournament, it was the most popular deck archetype.  Maybe it's time to build the Hate the Hate Deck.  Hmmm....Oath with maindeck SSS, 4 factories, and LFTL!
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 11:22:21 pm »

Cerebral Assassin was probably the most fun deck idea that Eastman came up with. What really surprises me about the list is the lack of animate effects - you're only running 5, and no dance of the dead. I think we originally ran between 7-9 so as to be more bomb heavy (just animate a titan whenever to blow up lands) and only three welders (we found the animates to be more usefull). Any reason for the lower number of animate effects?

I believe we also ran FoW over Duress so as to not eat up our mana for casting spells. We also had messed around with cabal therapy at one point to do such tricky plays as animating a titan and then just immediately saccing it (if necessary) to completely wipe out a manabase. I feel that you should try a way to move the portal to the maindeck, as it is simply the absolute nuts. Getting it into play when your opponent doesn't have a resource advantage, or you even have a single squee, can usually win you the game outright.

I'm not sure if CA can compete in today's meta - it needs a severe SB overhaul from the old lists and some anti-hate maindeck - but it is definately a surprise deck and a blast to play.
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moxpearl
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 07:28:36 pm »

Any reason for the lower number of animate effects?

I feel that you should try a way to move the portal to the maindeck, as it is simply the absolute nuts. Getting it into play when your opponent doesn't have a resource advantage, or you even have a single squee, can usually win you the game outright.

I haven't seen a CA list with more than five animate effects.  The original Eastman deck (one from two years ago!) that I saw had 4 animate deads and no reanimates.  I honestly don't know what you'd take out to fit one more in, and I've typically never had problems having an animate spell when I need it.  My problem as more often been getting a toy into the grave.   I definitely wouldn't cut a welder, because it seems like turn 1 welder followed by turn 2 discard is it's only chance against the speed of todays decks.

I agree the Portal can lock the game by itself, but there are so many Bobs in my metagame, and Portal doesn't stop Bob from drawing cards.  Even the popular Grunt in my metagame will bury Squee back into the library.  Also, if the opponent has bounce, I've sac'd a card and they've lost no lands vs. them getting 7/10-stripped twice.  Maybe, I've strayed too much away from the original design, and in some sense my deck sort of looks like WGD with Titans instead of Dragons and Welders to replace the dances/necromancy's.  But, against today's decks, it just doesn't seem like there is enough time do anything fancy.   It seems better to just slam Titan down as fast as possibly and beat while they try to recover their manabase.

If your team has some new tech, I'm all ears, particularly to fight Gifts and Long. 
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2007, 09:56:15 am »

Occasionally I load up CA to play against friends on MWS with mixed results. I've been testing Urborg, Tomb of Yawghmoth. It takes the strain of Gemstone Mine's, makes Bazaar tap for B, which is nice, and your Titan has an extra swamp to target Smile

I'm no big fan of Reanimate. Taking 8 life usually means your opponent only needs to storm for 5 and you cant go for the dragon (combo) kill.

I cut down to 2 squee's myself because I still play Portal maindeck. Without Portal I would cut them entirely.

Why was Balance in the sideboard if you expected alot of fish and random decks ? Even against gifts or long, Balance becomes a Mind Twist or an out vs Goblin tokens.


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moxpearl
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 09:26:32 pm »

Occasionally I load up CA to play against friends on MWS with mixed results. I've been testing Urborg, Tomb of Yawghmoth. It takes the strain of Gemstone Mine's, makes Bazaar tap for B, which is nice, and your Titan has an extra swamp to target Smile

I'm no big fan of Reanimate. Taking 8 life usually means your opponent only needs to storm for 5 and you cant go for the dragon (combo) kill.

I cut down to 2 squee's myself because I still play Portal maindeck. Without Portal I would cut them entirely.

Why was Balance in the sideboard if you expected alot of fish and random decks ? Even against gifts or long, Balance becomes a Mind Twist or an out vs Goblin tokens.

On Renanimate, I agree it's painful to take the 8 for Titan, but if it resolves, you'd just nuked 2-3 of their lands and they'll take 7 next turn.   Also a fairly common play is turn 1 countered welder followed by reanimated welder turn 2.  Turn 2 duress-reanimate or carefulstudy-reanimate is also common.  I guess it all depends on how aggressive you want to play, and my deck build strives for a turn 2 or 3 Titan.   And maybe it's by my deck's design, but it's rare that I win with the WGD combo.

On Balance, it's one of my favorite cards, but it just seemed too defensive game 1 when I tested it.  Commonly, it would drop both player to two cards and my opponents two cards would be better than my two.  It's also dead if I have turn 1 welder and they don't play a creature.   If I put Balance back in, I probably would have to take out Yawgmoth's Will or Reanimate, and the other two seem better game 1.   I might test Balance some more though if I decide to pick up this crazy deck again.
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2007, 11:22:30 pm »

With all due respect...taking one of my lists and making the same exact changes ive tried over and over in various combinations and calling them your ideas or whatever is sorta silly IMO...not that I mind too much of course but maybe giving credit where its due would be nice. Simply put calling this your deck with your ideas is just as bad as if I would have said I was the original creator of CA and not Eastman and the Hadley kids.

If you need evidence or what not I can of course go back and detail all aspects of these things for you, but please dont try to take credit. (even if CA isnt really competitive and there isnt much to be overly proud of any longer, heh) This whole report seems strangely enough like it was purely cut and pasted from various reports and posts on the subject myself and players such as Nataz and the few others who worked with me to try and expand CA long after Eastman had given it up for other ventures. I am even willing to say that If you really wanted me to I could find a paragraph that is almost word for word your last paragraph in the post above this one...

and just because I feel like it now I can also say that my Chinese Foil Possessed Portals are much hotter than your regular Portal..gg

@ MadManiac...

If you are actually interested in how the deck progressed after Eastman, I would be happy to point you in the direction of all the various posts and even a small primer I wrote on the deck oh so long ago..In that info would be all the answers you need as to why things changed, from FoW ---> Duress to dropping squee (in fact the last lists we had actually worked on had no squee after Diceman showed me the light with his early work on WGDX) to adding dragon combo to cutting portal from MD to adding Reanimate to later dropping Reanimate to trying Living Wish even, and all the hubbub in between. (we even had a 4 waste 1 strip + Null Rod version going for a bit if youd believe it)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2007, 11:30:21 pm by Lunar » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2007, 11:50:43 pm »

If you need evidence or what not I can of course go back and detail all aspects of these things for you, but please dont try to take credit.

With all due respect, nobody cares.

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Over the past two years, arguments over the proper names for some decks have repeatedly resulted in flamewars and other rules violations.  As a result, TMD staff has decided to prohibit the discussion of deck names on the forums. This includes arguing about who did what innovation first or who came up with what "tech" first.  This is not a place to stroke your E-Penis!

Thanks for the report, Tom!  CA turned out to be a great choice for you.  I really like this list with Duress.
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 12:04:10 am »

Yeah, I wrote a letter to Bram about my post before you posted and if it needs to go the moderators of this board can do that job, not you. Regardless of that, taking credit for something that is not your work is pretty lame and is generally frowned upon by most people. The thing I am more concerned about is that various aspects of his posts seem almost like direct plagarism on his part, not the card choices but actual sentances he has written. (maybe we just think alike? I dunno)

Again, I reported myself to the moderators and they can do whatever they feel is proper, I apologize if I am out of place. Simply put lets all be civil from this point and end it here until mods can take a peek.
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moxpearl
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 12:12:21 am »

With all due respect...taking one of my lists and making the same exact changes ive tried over and over in various combinations and calling them your ideas or whatever is sorta silly IMO...not that I mind too much of course but maybe giving credit where its due would be nice. Simply put calling this your deck with your ideas is just as bad as if I would have said I was the original creator of CA and not Eastman and the Hadley kids.

If you need evidence or what not I can of course go back and detail all aspects of these things for you, but please dont try to take credit. (even if CA isnt really competitive and there isnt much to be overly proud of any longer, heh) This whole report seems strangely enough like it was purely cut and pasted from various reports and posts on the subject myself and players such as Nataz and the few others who worked with me to try and expand CA long after Eastman had given it up for other ventures.

Sigh.   I did not expect this sort of response from my tournament report.   I presume you're Scott Lemengar, and I did enjoy reading your article "Peace in the Middle East" from mtgsalvation which I used as a starting point, but I didn't think it was really that important to write a bibliography on a top 4 finish at a local 19 person tournament where I won $25.  I'm certainly not taking credit for anything, and as you joke yourself, there's not much to be overly proud about.    But, this isn't that important, this deck isn't that cutting edge, the changes are also not, and as TMD rules state, this type of discussion is silly.  Instead, I would hope our goal as vintage players should be to have productive and fun discussion on decks and reports.
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2007, 01:15:46 am »

I'm the player that lost to MoxPearl in the top 8, playing UWB fish.  I am shocked that he netdecked to beat me, with what I had assumed was a completely original pile.  Funny, naming the deck Cerebral Assassin didn't tip me off that the deck was loosely based on a deck I had come across in the past.  In hindsight, naming the deck Cerebral Assassin almost implies giving credit to the original creator of the deck.

I all seriousness, are we all expected to read/remember everything Lunar may have previously written.  If Tom is implying that he made decisions in the deckbuild, isn't it possible that he could draw the same logical conclusions that Lunar drew by looking at the overall vintage card base.  Even if he got the ideas for what he considers modifications to the deck from something he read, he is still only implying that he made decisions about one card versus another and why, not that everything is a completely original idea.  Heck, to my knowledge, I was the first person to use serum powder in an Ichorid deck (though it was a mana version), and yet, without posting anything, other people came to the same conclusion.  There are many competent players out there that can develop a more optimal build starting from a list from an earlier point in time.  I understand that there would be frustration if someone implied that your deck was their original idea, but I really didn't take the post that way at all.
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2007, 09:08:15 am »

It's hard to break Lunar's heart (I gave him slops in my last tourney report, even tho he has kids/wife/career to worry about.  Lunar, you know I love you!)

It is enirely possible that in a deck like Cereberal Assassin (my pet deck is SlapJack WTF?) that two different players might see the same innovations.

Reanimate: CA cool!

All friendly, right?

I am just curious why FOUR Duress is needed.  Sure, 4 Duress is cool, but CA style decks have only so many slots.  What were you worried about Duressing that you needed 4 Duress slots in a non "4 Duress Archetype".?

Yes, I know, that the FOW alternative to Duress also takes four slots (and a Blue card), but Force of Will is easier for me to blindly accept in T! than 4 Duress.

I am aware that your list is an evolution of earlier lists, with no Squee (ok, you have 2 MD Kudos) and no Possessed Portal MD>
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 10:26:32 am by LotusHead » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2007, 01:16:30 pm »

The stuff Lunar brought up is off limits for discussion here. If Lunar wants to persue this issue in private and feels totally plagarized then this needs to be handled in private. Otherwise, consider re-read the forum rules before posting. You violated the rule below:

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Deck Names:  Over the past two years, arguments over the proper names for some decks have repeatedly resulted in flamewars and other rules violations.  As a result, TMD staff has decided to prohibit the discussion of deck names on the forums. This includes arguing about who did what innovation first or who came up with what "tech" first.  This is not a place to stroke your E-Penis.

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someone_unimportan
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2007, 09:56:47 pm »

Hullo! I'm the one who played Dry Slaver at the tournament! Man, I never thought anyone would post the results of our little local tourney on TMD! Congratulations, and are you coming again next month? Hopefully we can play each other again.
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2007, 10:48:42 pm »

I am just curious why FOUR Duress is needed.  Sure, 4 Duress is cool, but CA style decks have only so many slots.  What were you worried about Duressing that you needed 4 Duress slots in a non "4 Duress Archetype".?

Yes, I know, that the FOW alternative to Duress also takes four slots (and a Blue card), but Force of Will is easier for me to blindly accept in T! than 4 Duress.

Why is it necessarily a "non-4 duress archtype"?  It seems getting an early Titan/artifact into play turn 2 or 3 often requires expending much of your hand through card disadvantage (bazaar, study, entomb, vamp, and even often required mulligans), which of course is worth it since most decks can't recover from the land loss and 7/10 beats.   So, I had four Duress to guarantee I had early disruption against the countermagic or other disruption card.  Also, particularly in my metagame, swords (which prevent reanimating the welder back) and extripates are rampant, so it's even more imperative to clear the way.  Force could serve a similar purpose, but the extra blue card seems tough with all the discard and lower blue count.  Also, seeing the opponents hand is very valuable as you're shaping your hand with bazaar.   Of course, this is with my limited experience with CA.  I was just trying this fun deck in my janky metagame.

Hullo! I'm the one who played Dry Slaver at the tournament! Man, I never thought anyone would post the results of our little local tourney on TMD! Congratulations, and are you coming again next month? Hopefully we can play each other again.
Ahh...you must be the one who stomped me in the semis?  The only way we can make our meta not so little is if more us get active on the boards and recruit others to try the format!   Maybe after the Legacy GP is over and as summer starts, more people will play in the vintage tournaments.  It has one of the best prize payouts of Jason's magic tournaments, and it's funny, but the cheapest deck Ichorid could do quite well.   I hope to be at the next one, barring any family or work commitments.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 10:53:49 pm by moxpearl » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 02:16:30 am »

FoW was pretty much long ago abandoned in Cerebral assasin for various well documented reasons...the card disadvantage and extreem low number of blue cards in many builds was seen as too hard to reliably use. This was further complicated from my early addition of reanimate to the deck and entomb which further put the hold on FoW as the black card count went up considerably. You gotta remember we shaped the deck to put out 2nd and 3rd turn titans consistantly and duress was found to complement that plan substantially...you must also remember this was nearly 2 years ago (maybe even longer ago) and the meta was a bit slower which made this goal extreemly effective and somewhat easier to pull off IMO. Eventually I had dropped to 3 duress to allow for some MD meta sorta stuff (and went back to 4 animates) which gave more space for stuff for like 2x Echoing truth or one time i ran orims chants etc etc etc....blah blah blah...

The early/funky/actually somewhat successful answer to your swords/extirpate problem was the addition of 2x Living Wish (i know i know, lol) to the MD and the use of a tool box sort of SB to pull creatures out of. Hi-Val helped me set up the board and in the one tournament I played the wishes at (an early Eudamonia P9 event) I did hit top 8 out of 30 some players and Living Wish actually won me at least 2 games (grabbed a titan which had been stpd and hard casted it once, hehe...and the other was against CS where i nabbed a withered wretch from the SB to pwn up his welders) If you want to get even jankier try it out (its also detailed more in my Cerebral Assasin primer which MIGHT still be found on mtgsalvation and maybe even mtgnews if that site is still around)

anyways, here is some info if you are interested in CA:

http://mtgsalvation.com/177-vintage-peace-in-the-middle-east.html
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=22922.0
http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=285176&highlight=cerebral+assasin

and thats about all I can track down that is outside of tourney reports atm...the primer seems to be gone off salvation, ill have to see if I have a copy anywhere

EDIT: found a link to the old primer:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=16626
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 07:07:34 pm by Lunar » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 02:47:04 pm »

Hmmmm . . . agreed about promoting the Type 1 tournament. So, if anybody who reads this lives in the Twin Cities or the surrounding area, there is a Type 1 tournament on (normally) the second sunday of every month at Monster's Den in Minneapolis. You can check www.monsterden.com to make sure that it doesn't change because of some random holiday or event. The prize has been an Ancestral Recall the past few months since the top 4/2 almost always split and sell it back to the store. If we can't get enough people for the power, the cash payout is generally such that the top 4 can split for $50-80 apiece. It is a 15-proxy meta, so there is a lot of leeway in which decks you can play. The cost is $15. We hope to see you there!
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2007, 05:57:09 pm »

yeah, yeah.  This last event was on the 3rd Sunday of the month -- because of Easter.  Same deal with next month, but because of Mother's Day.  Attendance was down, but should jump up again when we go back to the regular time of the second Sunday of the month.  Jason's been having monthly power tournaments since before Fact or Fiction was restricted!  Pretty cool.

I have to admit, I haven't posted an announcement in a very long time.  In the past, only Full Members could reply to tournament announcements, and well, Minnesotans don't seem to be overly interested inTMD, apparently.  I would rarely get replies, and thus, stopped posting them.  Jason may have an account, but I'm not sure he's seen a need to post here.

What we really need is a demand to fill out decklists.  There's never been an issue before, which is why it continues this way, but I think it should be done. Doing this, we can keep a record of the changing meta and hopefully promote Vintage here and maybe increase attendance.  Who knows.

I like the CA list here with the few animates and with Duress.  Let's face it, the format has changed dramatically since the original CA list was revealed.  Any real comparison between Tom's list above and Eastman  (who the heck is that) deck are in a totally different context.  Today, Vintage is faster and grave hate is much more powerful.
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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 08:34:16 pm »

Very nice read.
Good work on top 8ing with an old archtype.
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