[Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Future Sight Set Review

[policehq]

How many threads will Steve and Peter ruin with all this?

You two aren't gaining any ground on each other, your points are addressed to the wrong people to get any action, and it highly discourages any on-topic discussion.

It shouldn't look like an act of congress, where someone has to second my request, to get a reply pertaining to the thread's title.

Right now, if Steven said, "You know what Peter, you're right. Future Sight really sucks for Vintage, and we need a B/R overhaul. 'Binary' is an accessible term in the metagame." Then what? Yay...

-hq

[Smmenen]

I'm surprised to see that you left out Magus of the Moon altogether, even if to say you think it's neat but won't make a big splash. It's seen some consideration since it was spoiled, and I think it is a great improvement to have a good effect on a creature.

-hq

To get back into the discussion of Magus - I think that one of the reasons I omitted it from my set review is that I was using the lens of Standard where being a creature is generally considered to be a drawback.    I agree that there is some potential – esp. with SSG – for abuse.   Turn one Magus has the potential to do a lot of damage.   On the other hand, it seems to me that both Yixlid Jailer and Aven Mindcensor seem to have far more potential as disruptive aggro-control elements.    I’ve tested a large swath of cards from this set already, but the more I think about Aven Mindcensor, the better I think it is.   Maybe it's time to return to Vial Fish with Chalices just so you can run more Moxen to support this dude.   

[Prometheon]

To get back into the discussion of Magus - I think that one of the reasons I omitted it from my set review is that I was using the lens of Standard where being a creature is generally considered to be a drawback.    I agree that there is some potential – esp. with SSG – for abuse.   Turn one Magus has the potential to do a lot of damage.   On the other hand, it seems to me that both Yixlid Jailer and Aven Mindcensor seem to have far more potential as disruptive aggro-control elements.    I’ve tested a large swath of cards from this set already, but the more I think about Aven Mindcensor, the better I think it is.   Maybe it's time to return to Vial Fish with Chalices just so you can run more Moxen to support this dude.   

I've been thinking that as well, although perhaps instead of running vial, you could run a nearly mono white fish deck with Ancient Tomb for Mindcensor and Glowrider, and then white lands for True Believer, Children of Korlis (insane against Bridge from Below!), etc. Blue could be splashed for walk, ancestral, daze, Ninja, Meddling Mage, whatever. The mana would be a nightmare, especially if you wanted to run Wastes, but the power level and disruptive potential of fish's creature base is on the rise.

[Imsomniac101]

To get back into the discussion of Magus - I think that one of the reasons I omitted it from my set review is that I was using the lens of Standard where being a creature is generally considered to be a drawback.    I agree that there is some potential – esp. with SSG – for abuse.   Turn one Magus has the potential to do a lot of damage.   On the other hand, it seems to me that both Yixlid Jailer and Aven Mindcensor seem to have far more potential as disruptive aggro-control elements.    I’ve tested a large swath of cards from this set already, but the more I think about Aven Mindcensor, the better I think it is.   Maybe it's time to return to Vial Fish with Chalices just so you can run more Moxen to support this dude.   

I've been thinking that as well, although perhaps instead of running vial, you could run a nearly mono white fish deck with Ancient Tomb for Mindcensor and Glowrider, and then white lands for True Believer, Children of Korlis (insane against Bridge from Below!), etc. Blue could be splashed for walk, ancestral, daze, Ninja, Meddling Mage, whatever. The mana would be a nightmare, especially if you wanted to run Wastes, but the power level and disruptive potential of fish's creature base is on the rise.

I already have such a list concocted. If there is enough interest, I could start a new discussion. Also see my Stax list featuring Tomb + Aven Mindcensor.

[Prometheon]

I'm definitely interested, and haven't had time to throw a list together or test due to exams. I've only thought about the build from a purely thematic standpoint, but it seems very strong. Years ago (before I bought drains...) I played straight WW and I actually had a very good Slaver matchup despite playing an undoubtedly sub-par list. I'm excited with what can be done with all of the enw cards since then. I am quite certain that Children of Korlis will prove to be amazing given what Future Sight is offering, as they give you game against Ichorid and super-fast storm combo (which will probably struggle getting to double digit storm.)

[Imsomniac101]

I am in the middle of exams myself, which explains why my posts contain nothing more than decklists and scant opinions. rest assured I'll post both lists in about a week

[Purple Hat]

I'm definitely interested, and haven't had time to throw a list together or test due to exams. I've only thought about the build from a purely thematic standpoint, but it seems very strong. Years ago (before I bought drains...) I played straight WW and I actually had a very good Slaver matchup despite playing an undoubtedly sub-par list. I'm excited with what can be done with all of the enw cards since then. I am quite certain that Children of Korlis will prove to be amazing given what Future Sight is offering, as they give you game against Ichorid and super-fast storm combo (which will probably struggle getting to double digit storm.)

WW having a good game against older slaver lists isn't particularly surprising.  Creatures had a good game against old slaver lists.  newer slaver lists are less prone to the "oh....you're playing aggro?  I lose" problem than their earlier counterparts.  I'm not saying that such a deck is bad in concept, in fact I think the deck you guys are talking about seems to pack a lot of annoying tricks.  I'wm wondering why you'd go with a blue draw engine instead of scrapping blue all together in favor of either black or red.  Black would give you confidant and the new graveyard hate creature, while red gives you magus of the moon and simian spirit guide to power out your threats on turn 1 instead of turn 2.

[Prometheon]

Red was actually my first thought for exactly that reason. Magus of the Moon fits PERFECTLY into the deck, as it costs 2R and is therefore excellent to accelerate out with Ancient Tomb, and then "fixes" the Tomb afterwards, so you don't have to take further damage. He would have to be played after any Glowriders and Mindcensors in most cases though. The problem with red is the complete and utter lack of a draw engine. Black seems strong in that Confidant is insane, but I'm not sold on Yixlid Jailer yet. It hoses Ichorid and Recoup, and I don't know if that's worth a slot (and another creature that dies to Dart/D-Blast). I would probably rather use Withered Wretch, but his double black cost will likely be too much of a problem.

The main reason I would want to run blue over red or black would be Daze. The card has been ridiculous in many fish-like decks I have seen, although these have usually had black in them for Duress, so I'm not sure if it would continue to be strong in a mostly white deck.

Edit to expand a little: Though Magus of the Moon seems insane, basic Island is most likely going to be the deck's biggest problem...So what about Choke? Green also gives us Keen Sense as a draw engine, and ESGs as additional and unstoppable acceleration (Guiding out an instant-speed Mindcensor wiill be hot in a red or green build.) I think the problem with this deck is that base white is simply not good enough by itself (or is it?) and every color has good things to offer:

Black: Confidant, Duress, Consultation, Jailer
Red: Magus (which has built in Massacre protection, as most decks don't run basic Swamp), SSG, Shattering Spree, great SB cards against other fish decks
Blue: Ancestral, Walk, Daze, Ninja, Standstill
Green: Choke, ESG, Keen Sense

Alternatively, a White Stax type list has already been posted, and perhaps a mono-white deck could be built with 4 Glowriders and 4 SoRs. Along with Wastes and/or Rods, this could be a crippling strategy, although probably a little too slow for the meta, and horrible against Ichorid.

Another important question is: Null Rod or no? It's awesome with Ancient Tomb (first turn rod ftw!) but with cards like Mindcensor, Magus, or even Confidant, you want to run a lot of Moxen.

[Imsomniac101]

In the Stax list I posted, Null Rod is really really good. I haven't had a chance to observe Aven Mindcensor in action yet. From my limited number of games so far, In The Eye of Chaos has been godly. ITEOC + Null Rod is a virtual hard lock against Drain decks.

I think the reason why blue is included over any of the other colours is because decks like that need a good mix of reactive and proactive solutions.

I think Magus of the Moon is not worth including. It seems too vulnerable and would probably prefer the enchantment better. Green is not worth including, and playing cards like SSG and ESG mean that you will run out of cards and steam very quicky. Yixlid Jailer is what I'm on the fence about.... mainly because it doesn't hit YawgWill.