[Article] Another Ichorid Piece

[BreathWeapon]

I remember there being a red card that can discard a Mountain as an alternate casting cost and remove an artifact, it's similar to Crash, but I couldn't find it in the database. That seems to be about as good as Abolish against Pithing Needle and the stuff that Stax uses.

That may be so, but keep in mind that Abolish is also able to get rid of Enchantments, in addition to Artifacts.

Well I was thinking that it could be used in addition to Abolish, but I'm also thinking I imagined the card, because I can't find it any where.

[T00L]

I imagine abolish + chain would be the best post sideboard strategy for ichorid

[Warden]

Anyone think of Riftstone Portal?

You just need to dump it in the grave (very easy)
Could solve the G mana issue for Emerald Charm, etc.

*Other than Gigapede, is there another creature that's relatively big and can't be targeted? I think there's a big U/G creature. Anyone know him? Im thinking of adding 1 or 2 if these guys arent bad

[A.-1.]

Simic Sky Swallower 
Creature - Leviathan
Flying, Trample
Simic Sky Swallower cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
6/6

It's the biggest U/G untargetable I can think of.

[wethepeople]

Anyone think of Riftstone Portal?

You just need to dump it in the grave (very easy)
Could solve the G mana issue for Emerald Charm, etc.

Keep in mind that when we actually need Emerald Charm, there is a Leyline of the Void on your opponent's board.

[ErkBek]

Veggies, what are your thoughts on running Dryad Arbors in the maindeck to free up sideboard space? I know you liked factory and nexus in the main, so how about arbors?

[policehq]

I don't remember exactly, but I think his last list was something like:

4 bazaar of baghdad
4 serum powder
4 mishra's factory
3 blinkmoth nexus

4 mishra's bauble
3 urza's bauble

4 ichorid
4 nether shadow

4 golgari grave-troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 shambling shell

2 sutured ghoul
2 dread return
2 dragon breath

4 chalice of the void
4 cabal therapy
4 unmask

And we need to fit in ~4 Dryad Arbor, 4 Leyline of the Void (post-FS Ichorid will require it), Narcomoeba, Bridge from Below.

-4 Mishra's Factory
-3 Blinkmoth Nexus
-4 Nether Shadow
-4 Mishra's Bauble
-3 Urza's Bauble

+4 Dryad Arbor
+4 Leyline of the Void
+4 Narcomoeba
+4 Bridge from Below
+1 Dread Return
+1 Dread Return target

One proposed method of making the swap.

I get less and less happy with Flame-Kin Zealot every day, and people are learning how to play against Bridge from Below to avoid a zombie rush. I'm happier sticking with the Sutured Ghoul kill; bounce and spot-removal is not a problem as long as you play your Cabal Therapies correctly.

Bridge from Below still allows you to beat down without a Dread Return combo finish.

-hq

[Warden]

*see decklist above

-4 Mishra's Factory
-3 Blinkmoth Nexus
-4 Nether Shadow
-4 Mishra's Bauble
-3 Urza's Bauble

+4 Dryad Arbor
+4 Leyline of the Void
+4 Narcomoeba
+4 Bridge from Below
+1 Dread Return
+1 Dread Return target

-hq

Policehq, I like the way you setup you MD. Main thing that sticks out is No Golgari Thugs....What do you Sb out?
im not concerned about what's being put in, more of what is being taken out. So if you wanted a Chain of Vapor/Emerald Charm, what are you taking out of the MD to make room for it?

-thanks

[Clark Kant]

It seemed like meadbert is going for a build of the deck that is as
resilient and disruptive as possible.

Meanwhile, Stephen went with a build of the that wins on turn two as
consistently as humanly possible on the notion that winning early
consistently is the best way to minimize the chance of getting stopped
by hate, a philosophy that I definatley think holds true a good bit.

And finally, kobefan went with a build of the deck that ensures that
you can consistently deal with Leyline with turn two as that is the
hate that most effectively shuts down this deck, even if it hurts the
ability of this deck to deal with other hate cards like Yixid Jailer.

This was my attempt to adopt kobefan's list with Stephen's plan of winning on turn 2 as often as possible without abandoning the other goals of disruption and leyline hate as much. The key change from Stephens build is to switch it to the flame kin/cephalid plan as imho, the latter is a lot more comboesque.

The main advantage to the flame kin/cephalid plan over the sutured ghould plan is that you get to run 4 dread returns and 4 targets for it. So you can dread return a cephalid sage even with just a few cards in the yard on second turn into another dread return all the way till you get the flame-kin in the yard and win that same turn. With the sutured ghoul plan, you only have 2 dread return and if you don't have that along with sutured ghoul and dragon breath in the yard by turn 2 which you many times won't as you only have 2 of each, you really can't win till turn 3.

And I really think that it's best to optimize both an extremely comboesque build like Stephens for environments where hate is lite (and the best way to do this is probably to just take stephen's most recent build verbatim and simply replace the sutured ghoul win with the flame-kin zealot win) and a very resilient build like meadberts for places where hate is heavy.

I pretty much just tweaked kobefan's build because it seems like an extremely strong plan against Leyline.

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Serum Powder

3 Wooded Foothills
2 Dryad Arbor

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
2 Shambling Shell

4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge From Below
4 Ichorid

4 Chalice of the Void/Petrified Field/Leyline of the Void/Street
Wraith
4 Unmask
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Dread Return
3 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

SB:
2 Tropical Island
3 Windswept Heath
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Emerald Charm
2 Reverent Silence

I went up to 14 dredgers just because multiple dredgers in the yard
before turn 2 is so key to being able to win on turn 2. The build also
makes room for Lion's Eye Diamond as that too is key to being able to
win turn 2.

Unlike the previous sideboards which needed one of 7 lands AND one of
7 spells in your early hand to deal with Leyline, this build plays 10
of each which greatly increases the probability of being able to do
this. If not for this, Arbor is probably a slightly worse way to ensure you get 3 creatures by turn
3 than Nether Shadow.

And with these changes, you now have both 4 Unmask and 4 Chain of
Vapor postboard to deal with hate  cards that are not Leyline.

Lastly this build lets you bring your entire sideboard in and the only
cards that are dead if your opponent doesn't open with Leyline is
Reverent Silence. Chain of Vapor almost always has it's uses, Emerald
Charm lets you dredge another 12-18 cards to your graveyard, and the
fetchland/arbor plan at the very least helps you dread return turn 2
all while fueling many additional creatures with Underworld Dreams.

The one major thing that the above build needs is a way to protect
Bazaar from Wasteland when your opponent goes first and plays it turn
one. Petrified Field works a bit but the question is, how to go about
making room for it.


What changes would you make to this build?


Honestly, is Leyline common enough to dedicate the orient the build so heavily versus it at the expense of resiliency to far more common though not as potent hate cards like Wasteland, Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt.

[policehq]

Meadbert's stance on lands was, at one time, that six was enough. I know that for a while he played 7 sideboard with 8 answers (Chain of Vapor and Emerald Charm). When I played mana-Ichorid, before Empty the Warrens was released, 8 lands was comfortable even with the reliance on hardcasting Duress, recurring Ashen Ghoul, and flashing back Ancient Grudge. 10 lands certainly isn't too many, but since you fear Wasteland, Pithing Needle, etc. you can make room for other cards in the sideboard by trimming down on lands.

That said, I like 4 Dryad Arbor maindeck for the synergy with Dread Return and Bridge from Below. Post-sideboard, you can bring in three fetches, 1 Tropical Island, 4 Chain of Vapor, 4 Reverent Silence (preferred over Emerald Charm for the horrid double-Leyline of the Void openings) and still have room for 3 Pithing Needle to target Wasteland and Tormod's Crypt. Ancient Grudge might be suitable to target things like Eon Hub, Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, etc. as well as Tormod's Crypt.

I still feel that Sutured Ghoul is the optimal kill condition, and nothing about running him means that you have to play 2 Dread Return. My testing experience with players using cards like Children of Korlis, Bloodfire Dwarf, etc. shows that there are a lot of ways to attack Bridge from Below in addition to Echoing Truth and other standard answers to nullify your Flame Kin Zealot.

Here is my list:
4 bazaar of baghdad
4 serum powder
3 dryad arbor
1 wooded foothills

4 golgari grave-troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 shambling shell

4 ichorid
4 narcomoeba
4 bridge from below

3 dread return
2 sutured ghoul
2 dragon breath
1 yosei/sundering titan/petradon/mindslicer*
4 street wraith

4 cabal therapy
4 chalice of the void
4 leyline of the void

sb
4 chain of vapor
4 reverent silence
1 wooded foothills
2 windswept heath
1 tropical island
3 pithing needle/ancient grudge

*- This is a preference call. Use whatever you wish to buy another turn, or if you feel that 1 Cephalid Sage would be sufficient to win that turn, by all means use it.

-hq

[Vegeta2711]

Veggies, what are your thoughts on running Dryad Arbors in the maindeck to free up sideboard space? I know you liked factory and nexus in the main, so how about arbors?

I think it's a worthwhile idea if you're willing to sacrifice a dredger or two along w/ one or two other cards. I'd have to bang out a few more slots from my current list, but testing Arbor's in the main is definitely on my to-do list. Fact is, as you pointed out, Arbor is just better than the other two since it sacs and makes the mana I need post-board which reduces the need for stuff like Riftstone Portal and such. It also means it's easier to board in cards, since you won't be forced to take so many of your borderline cards out of the deck in the first place. Keeping both plans intact is very helpful.

[McBain]

I was just curious about cards generally find themselves boarding out, and vs what decks. Who do you find will generally play leyline and who doesnt?

[policehq]

It's really hard to tell at the moment; even Fish is starting to board Leyline, aren't they? Stax, Oath, Long, Gifts, pretty much everyone has the chance to run it if they have the Sideboard space and Ichorid shows some prevalence.

-hq

[Vegeta2711]

So yeah, I'd just recommend Shay's list at this point in time for this point in time. By combining my general base and sideboard w/ Becker's ideas you get a dominant Ichorid deck for the field. It's truly a beast.

For reference:
// Lands
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Dryad Arbor

// Creatures
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Ichorid
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Flame-Kin Zealot
    2 Cephalid Sage

// Spells
    4 Serum Powder
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dread Return
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Leyline of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Reverent Silence
SB: 3 Emerald Charm
SB: 4 Contagion
SB: 2 Tropical Island
SB: 2 Wooded Foothills

I've had a very hard time coming up with anything better for the deck. Realistically the only thing left to do is somehow work Grudge into the board.

[wethepeople]

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Reverent Silence
SB: 3 Emerald Charm
SB: 4 Contagion
SB: 2 Tropical Island
SB: 2 Wooded Foothills

I can't seem to figure out why people choose to run 2 Tropical Islands. The only card you would be hardcasting is Narcomoeba, which even then is very difficult. I myself would prefer having Bayou, so I have the ability to hardcast Cabal Therapy, to either 1) disrupt my opponent, or 2) work as a Lion's Eye Diamond, and discard a Dredger at hand when you are lacking Bazaar of Baghdad.

[The Atog Lord]

I can't seem to figure out why people choose to run 2 Tropical Islands

I had no intention of casting a Nacramoeba. Tropical Islands let me bluff Chain of Vapor. Now that everyone knows the list, and trying to bluff Chain won't work, they should be either Forests or Bayous.

[Warden]

I can't seem to figure out why people choose to run 2 Tropical Islands.

Personally, I like Tropical Islands if your SB runs cards that utilize it. There is no need to "bluff". Chain of Vapor + Emerald Charm can utilize a Trop. Island.
I'll post my list, which has been testing to nice games

About which build to use/run: It's a preferance of style of play along with the metagame. I personally like Ghoul better as of right now.
They are both equal in my mind --- Zealot builds have more slots to play around with but need Bridge from Below to win, where as Ghoul has a tighter decklist yet can win without bridge.

I tried PoliceHQ's list, which was very nice -- but I had to tweak it a bit (probably due to a difference in playing styles)
*Props to PoliceHQ who definately has something going with his list. I felt that some things had to be altered slightly


The Kill
2   Sutured Ghoul   
2   Dragon Breath

Food/Fuel
4   Ichorid 
4   Narcomoeba
4   Golgari Grave-Troll   
4   Shambling Shell   
4   Stinkweed Imp   
4   Street Wraith   

Spells 
4   Cabal Therapy   
3   Dread Return

Stuff 
4   Bridge from Below
4   Leyline of the Void   
4   Chalice of the Void   
1   Lion's Eye Diamond  (A comfortable choice, should Bazaar not being in a decent opening hand. You could easily sub this with a x1 of any of the usual creatures. Debate and playtest who works there and who doesnt.)

4   Serum Powder   
4   Bazaar of Baghdad   
4   Dryad Arbor (Why 4? Well, either you draw them and play them or they rot in the graveyard. And if I need to win fast, that extra 1/1 creature that winds up there occasionally makes the difference)
   
Sideboard
4   Chain of Vapor     (you can debate, but this card has more pro's than con's)
4   Emerald Charm     (anti-enchantment or bazaar again. For 1 G this is a staple)
2   Reverent Silence  (It does the job but is more conditional than I first thought. However, when it resolves it works wonders)
3   Tropical Island      (for actual use, not for bluffing)
2   Wooded Foothills  (gets the dryad arbor/tropicals...depending on the situation)

*At times I sorta miss Nether Shadow, although we have Narcamoeba --- Shadow was a good friend.