New to Vintage, hate moxen, RW Aggro need help I'm not a n00b, I'm a t2 veteran

[Kataki_Rulez]

So, everyone, stop by and read the amazing deck of funniness. As you can tell, I love Kataki, he was one of my first magic cards EVER, and has now found a home in Vintage. And, yes, my deck is RW aggro. It will probably be good in my current environment where the meta is 50% crappy rogue, 15% good rogue, 10% good t2 players flashing their moxen and lotuses that they won, but bad decks, 2% Stax, 5% Oath, and 18% everything else. So, here's the build I'm working on, it's almost finished, and, no, I',m  not some 10-year-old rich kid who is using a badly-modified Rav Block theme deck:

4 Plateau
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's factory
1 Karakas (tech against Oath!!!)
5 Mountain
2 Plains

3 Kataki (the pwnzors)
3 Jotun Grunt (yes, I know it works against Lavamancer, but you don't have to pay the upkeep)
4 Grim Lavamancer (see Jotun Grunt)
4 Goblin Welder
3 Gorilla  Shaman (screws with moxen)

3 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sudden Shock (I think it's better than magma jet in a format filled with FoW and Mage)
3 Shattering Spree
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt

So, for talk about this deck, post. I  have a board, but all that it is is 3 Pyroblast, 3 Red Elemental Blast, 3 Disenchant and an Orim's Chant. Let me say a few things: this is the build I will make. I will modify it a little according to what you have to say, but currently I own the entire deck aside from the Chants and Plateaus. Also, please do not suggest P9/Going a different colour/etc., for practical reasons. I have no moxen, and I refuse to play Chains of Mephistopheles. However, this deck has 2 things going for it: 1) Surprise. 'Nuff said. 2) Sheer, unadulterated metagaming. This deck has hate for EVERYTHING. If you can help with the board, I would also be grateful. This is doing well on MWS, but it's MWS, which has people who think Coldsnap isn't in t2 playing on it. Cheers!

[hauntedechos]

Hey man, welcome to TMD,

off the top of my head it seems like you really want to build The Mountains Win Again(R/W).  Not saying this looks anything like it, just that TMWA is R/W as well, and is viable.

x3Tormods won't be enough to pull off a win vs. Ichorid, especially post FS.  Also, you'll need something faster to force Tendrils Combo to interact with you.  Latest suggestion I've heard that I like is x4 Children of Korlis, nice 1cc white creature.  That would also compliment your Orim's chants.  Swords is pretty limited in viable targets these days, but I guess they couldn't hurt, cut them to 3 I'd say at least if you insist on running them at all.  Your going to want fetch lands to smooth out your mana base as well, because you'r running so many factories/wastes you'll need them to get your on colour mana when you need it.  x4 Welders seems a bit much even Slaver lists seems to run 2 these days.  I'll assume that you're in a non-proxy environment, because if you aren't then you need to proxy lotus,Pearl and Ruby.  Vs Ichorid maybe have a 4th Grunt in the side?  I'm not sure as I'm not sure how to optimize this list.

One last thing. Rogue is GOOD ALWAYS, only bad decks are bad decks.  A rogue deck is a well thought out deck that succeeds by metagame predictions, then wins games based on being right.

Hope this has helped a little at least.

Cheers
Mike.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Thank you very much! However, sacrifice children seems more of a sideboard option... I'll test it further. I AM in a pro-proxy environment, but I just don't like moxen, and this build is meant to kill them.

[Damos2001]

Sudden shock is no where as good as Magma jet even with mages and FoW out there (this is like saying moxen are not good in a format with chalice and null rod in it). Sudden shock is good VS. Tog and some of the new hulk flash combo decks. So if you see this all the time then yes shock is the better. But if you do not see them then jet is the far better card. And look at it this way they waste a force on it good. One less counter in there hand. Same is true if they drop a mage naming it. There are just far better things to use those cards on then the jet.

Jet was never in the dekc as a 2 damage spell it was there for the second ability on the card Scry. The one thing about this deck was that it just does not have any card drawing in it. And that is where jet came in. It gave the deck some card drawing in a way.

Also 4 lavamancers is about 1 to many. Please trust me on this I have played R/W weenie in a few tournys now and tested it a lot and 3x mancers are just more then enough. And I to agree grunt and mancer can work wonderful together.

Another thing to thing about is Null Rod. Now this depends on your meta. If there are not moxen in your meta then rod is useless. But if there are moxen being ran you really should think about runing null rod. It is just amazing in a deck like this.

Another thing I noticed was that you say oath is a big problem in your meta. But you have no Kami of the Ancient Law in the deck. This guys can just be game against oath. He beats them in the face and when they finally do get an oath out he killes it before they even get a chance to use it.

Some of the question cards I have are.

Shattering spree (at least in the main)
Piller
Engineered Explosives

What are this in there for?

Spree.  Is good against stax but with welder, shamen and kataki in the main already you have good answers to stax. I have won more then one stax match up runing 4 welders, 3 shamens and 2-3 kataki. Mainly because welder along side your burn lets you play there own game against them.

Piller. I tested this as a SB option against storm based decks (back when tendrils was the only good storm card) and just found I hated it. Most of the time they just tutored up a bounce spell. Then bounced it and killed you all in the same turn. Only taking 4-6 damage from it. But found that it killed me. Remember everything in your deck will cost you 2 life or more to play now.

Explosives. Maybe you could tell me what match up you have this in there for. I mean if it is for the aggro match then I belive it is like spree. You have a good number of hate for aggro already in the deck. But if you did need more red just has better answers then Explosives.

Lastly one of the biggest things I found from my testing was that you really need to put your opponet on a clock. As welders, shamens, and mancers just do not do the job. I kept finding over and over that I really need about 12-14 two power or guys (note i am counting the factorys with this). Because if the game goes to long your oppoent will just recover and win.

Hope this helps some.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Actually the explosives are hate for Ichorid. Ichorid is starting to go off turn 2 or 3, and it is REALLY hard to kill all of their tokens without some form of Wrath effect. Sudden Shock can definitely  change to Magma Jet. Pillar is better as Children of Korlis, and Kami of Ancient Law I'm arguing with as a possible weapon against Oath over Shattering spree, but I'm also starting to consider options like Molten Rain against, say, Ichorid. Because I am in a proxy environment, Ichorid sees a lot of play. My maindeck is probably going to look something like that, but until then, my board needs help. Once again, thanks!

[A.-1.]

I definately agree with hauntedchaos on the number of Swords to Plowshares maindeck. Two to three is fine with the rest in the sideboard if you want. Lavamancer and Magma Jet/Sudden Shock kill a lot of the creatures in type 1. If your metagame has big artifact creatures and Oath running around then I can see four swords being an acceptable number. Also post board versus Oath you'll want to side out the Swords since it is fairly common for Oath to bring in untargetable creatures. In these matchups two to three Seal of Cleansing in the sideboard isn't a bad idea considering they also help in the Stax game. Another card to consider if Ichorid is popular, is Pithing Needle in the board.

Best of luck with the deck and welcome to type 1.

[Kataki_Rulez]

As I said, my meta is Fish, Oath and bad stuff. The bad stuff needs to actually be accounted for, as it makes up 60% of the meta, so the Swords are neccessary. Pithing Needle I am thinking about, but I had a card that I forgot, and I need it! I do have 3 disenchant in the board, but I don't know how well those will work, this deck needs some testing. It is doing well, but sacrifice children I am wondering about. Should I cut Shattering Spree for Ronom Unicorn? Keep it up, friends!

[Damos2001]

Bloodfire Dwarf can be good against ichorid also. As it killes every creature they bring out (save the dread returned target but that is what swords is for). And on top of that it also lets you remove all the bridge from below that they have in the yard. Also with 3x crypts in the main you have some game against the deck anyways. As you can chump block with your creatures a little then pop a crypt. Like I said dread return is your biggest threat I think.

Also not that if i remember my the way the stack work's right then they will not get any creatures from bridge from below if you use the dwarf. As the dwarf will go to the gravyard as part of the cost and there for trigger the bridges remove from game ability before the dwarf does it's damage.

Just an idea worth thinking about if you think ichorid is a problem. As I belive stoping them from ever geting the token in the first place is better then killing then waiting and killing the token then.

I think you can afford to run 1 explosive's though and 1 Enlightened Tutor also (This way if you did not stop the bridges in time you still have a way to deal with the tokens). Tutor is nice as it gives you a little card selection out for the deck.

Though one question I have is you say you are in a proxy enviroment so why not proxy a mox ruby and mox pearl ?

Also if you are facing off against other moxen you really need to have a few Null Rod's or else Chalice of the Void in the deck. This are key cards to a deck like this as they help slow up your oppoent long enough to hopfully win.

And I say Unicorn is far better then spree. As I said before you already have plenty of artifact hate in the shamens, Kataki and Welders. And unicorn is another beater for you too.

Though if you feel you still want artifact hate then I have an idea. I remember at one time when I ran R/W I ran 2-3 Unicorn and 2-3 Hearth Kami in the deck. The hearth kami is nice if you think you will see chalice alot. As chalice for 1 really hurts and this gives you a way to deal with a chalice for 1.

As always a few ideas for you to think about and I hope it helps some.

[Zarathustra]

Bloodfire Dwarf can be good against ichorid also. As it killes every creature they bring out (save the dread returned target but that is what swords is for). And on top of that it also lets you remove all the bridge from below that they have in the yard. Also with 3x crypts in the main you have some game against the deck anyways. As you can chump block with your creatures a little then pop a crypt. Like I said dread return is your biggest threat I think.

The whole deck is a threat.  Ichorid will probably side out it's Bridges against any aggro deck.  It can be a waste of space.  Crypts are hardly the solution for a deck that can cycle through it's deck in a matter of 2-3 turns.  Besides, Manaless Ichorid plays 4 Chalice of the Voids, which help against Crypt a lot.

Also not that if i remember my the way the stack work's right then they will not get any creatures from bridge from below if you use the dwarf. As the dwarf will go to the gravyard as part of the cost and there for trigger the bridges remove from game ability before the dwarf does it's damage.

It depends when you do it.  If you do it during the Ichorid player's turn, then they can choose the order of Bridge's resolution.

Just an idea worth thinking about if you think ichorid is a problem. As I belive stoping them from ever geting the token in the first place is better then killing then waiting and killing the token then.

Ichorid won't be dumping it's whole graveyard in just 1 turn.  So, chances are you will only hit a 1-2 Bridges upon sacking a Dwarf.

I think you can afford to run 1 explosive's though and 1 Enlightened Tutor also (This way if you did not stop the bridges in time you still have a way to deal with the tokens). Tutor is nice as it gives you a little card selection out for the deck.

I'm sorry, but that sounds terrible.  First, Explosive's is only a one-shot effect, so next turn you're gonna be facing more sideways dudes.  Second, E. Tutor is gonna put the card on top, which is really slow against a deck like Ichorid.

-DShell

[policehq]

You have a good bit of defense against Ichorid, but I just wanted to add a note of warning: If Ichorid gets Leyline out game 1, Bloodfire Dwarf will not remove their Bridge from Below(s).

-hq

[Kataki_Rulez]

The Explosives were a suggestion from a friend to kill Chalice for 0 or 1 with. I don't like the dwarf, just because it seems to me that Fanatic is better. I thank you for saying this deck is doing well, so suggestions welcome! However, I don't want to run anything other than a 1-drop against the Spree, because I might be new to Vintage, but all of my Type 1 aficionado friends have unanimously agreed on 1 thing: In Vintage, you either need to be able to win turn 2, or screw your opponent from winning on turn 2. This deck is clearly the second option, but Spree and Shock's are cuttable, but I don't think that killing the Sprees will help. Once again, I need to make a good deck, but help is required!

[hauntedechos]

Well let's take another swing at this,

Let's back up and look at WHAT you need to deal with rather than card suggestions.

you need 'yard hate
accelerant hate
creature board control
combo control

yard hate is available from many angles.  Let's see what pulls multiple duties:
Leyline seems very popular because it doesn't affect YOUR yard.
x4 is good for ensuring the highest percentage chance, that you see it opening hand.  Keep them in your SB as they are, so far as I've seen, the best Ichorid defence.
x3 Jotun Grunt is good as it's a large beater, and it's a slower continuous Tormod's Crypt.  As stated, ichorid will run chalice at 0

Combo answers:
Children was suggested as it's a first turn way to force combo to interact with you.  They will then need to bounce it/Massecre it to combo out.  Another option to bolster this match up is True Beliver.
Orim's chant is a good inclusion for your SB.  It does nothing for your Ichorid matchup, but against combo it's a pretty decent defence.

Accelerant answers:
Null Rod is a turn 2 option, but no matter when it hits, it shuts off the accelerants.
Chalice at 0.  Provided you see it first turn, it's great disruption
Kataki war's Wage. you have it in your list already, if you can couple it with Null Rod, the artifacts get dumped in the bin.  Sadly it's a 2 drop, hence the importance that you run moxen and Lotus (yeah you hate it, but I hate taxes and yet I still have to pay them)
-all 3 are over kill, especially in the face of you running Mox Monkey, but it's up to you to find the optimal numbers/inclusions

Control answers:
your running R, you've got a possible 8 R counters.  Sadly, they all require R and none of them have the wide range of FoW/pact of negation/Daze etc.
under these circumstances, you may be too slow on the draw in the face of Combo.  Let's face it the chances of opening with Mountain, Ruby and 2 Blasts in hand are pretty slim mate.

suggestions:
Diesnchant = the Axe
you'd rather drop a Seal of Cleansing (against....Oath?) and leave it up to them to interact and remove it.  Against, artifacts you already have soo many options that Disenchant is of no use to you.  Most enchantments are game ending (think Bargain, Necro etc) or potentially game ending (ichorid's new Bridge)

Thats it from me right now, as always PM's are welcome
and let the flaming begin

cheers
Mike

[Kataki_Rulez]

Hmmm... Moxen weren't actually in any of the builds I checked out, and I think the Pro's know best. However, if I say, win some moxen, I MIGHT run them. I just am running a deck that screws with everything. Leyline is one of the best suggestions I've heard so far, and I am running 8 red counters and 3 Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing in my boar. =( that means that if I run Leyline, I have 0 space. If I cut 2 of the red counters, I can run 2 Pithing Needle, but that will only allow me to play with very weak hate against 2 possible matchups. True Believer was in the main version, but the double coloured ended up being to hard to dig for, even with fetches. What I am looking at now is cutting the 3 Sprees for another crypt, a land, and a sudden shock/something else, or 3 Hearth Kami. The problems I am having is that you're chances of drawing moxen (in this particular deck) are so low, it could physically harm the deck to run too many 2-drops, however Chalice of Pwnage is really popular, and is going to destroy all my 1-drops. I think I will run some Sacrifice Children, but I don't really know what to cut. I am in Canada, so this is a long weekend (celebrating one of the greatest pricks of all history, Queen Victoria, but that's a different story), so I may go and see my Vintage aficionado buds. Thank you for the help, as you suggest more things, this deck will get better. Cheers, and keep it up, this deck's history s getting stronger (though I don't find MWS to be a very efficient story teller).

[policehq]

What exactly does Shattering Spree do to prevent your opponent from winning turn 2?

Grim Lavamancer, Jotun Grunt, and Tormod's Crypt all in the same deck is bad juju.

Goblin Welder purely as a defensive mechanism is really bad since it is only effective against Stax and Workshop Aggro, which are near-obsolete unless Harlequin and Yespuhyren's attempts pay off.

It's hard to tell you what to do, though, since you're in such an odd metagame.

There is really no competitive reason not to use on-color Moxen and Black Lotus.

-hq

[hauntedechos]

Using Leylines and Grunt and Lavamancer is enough.  Crypt is fast at 0, but not very viable these days.

[rkmancer]

I've tried to develop some kind of this deck as well.  (Itlooks like basic TMWA for me).  But since TMWA run 3 colors now (RBW), I used to use just (RW) since i added magus of the moon and aven mindcensor.  Since u have 4 plateau in your deck, what do you think about it? Here's the idea:

I lock the 'mana devolepment' with my MoonMan, lock the 'searching for solution' or some kind of 'combo killer' with my aven, and beat my opponent a.s.a.p to make this deck more AGGRO. As mana acceleration, I use Mox, Lotus, SSG, and ancient tomb. I put out mishra's factory and wasteland since they have bad correlation with Moon.  For aggro, I think what best creature can I adopt from white weenie or sligh (jotun is a must, grim too, maybe isomaru)?

The principle is like angel stompy from legacy, but with creatures which are more realiable to make a lock.  Of course you need some equipment (jitte??).

What do you think??

This post is an egregious violation of Rule 1, Deficient Writing Skills.  In Standard English, sentences conclude with a single period, not two periods separated by a space.  Also, the first person nominative singular pronoun "I" is always capitalized.  Lastly, internet abbreviations such as "u" and "hv" are below TMD's posting standards.  You have been directed to review the site rules recently; please do so before posting again.  If you have any questions, feel free to PM a moderator.  -DA

[hauntedechos]

Hey all,

I'm not a Long player, but last time I checked, they ran Massacre in the Sb and possibly 1 main.  Basicly if you control a plains (and you do) and they control a swamp (and they do) Long plays it for free, and it kills off your 2/2's (which I think was what your plan was.  On the other hand, if you can get censor online before they tutor up the Massacre, then you may have some time to work with.  However, Long playing all thoes draw 7's isn't terribly concerned with not being able to search it's library, and one of thoes draw7's is going to hit Massacre I think.  Can any Long players confirm/tell me I'm full of crap in concerns with this?

Cheers
Mike

[Kataki_Rulez]

Hmmm... Mindcensor does seem like a good choice (and a token 3-drop), and I do want to run him, but Long seems to always haver some trix up their sleeves. However, it seems to be better than Shattering Spree. I need to think about this. Record for everyone: this deck is going well, but it has a weak matchup with combo. It pwns stax and oath, but it can't quite hold its own against, say, Dragon. I hate that deck so much. Crypt is working very well, when I took it out once for experimentation, I ran headlong into Manaless Ichorid, and got my butt handed back to me in a paper bag. Explosives then barely saved me game 2, and Sudden Shock won game 3, but game 1 was a bloodbath. Long is hard to find on MWS, because good players are hard to find. Thank you, all! Cheers, and keep it up!

[wethepeople]

Hey all,

I'm not a Long player, but last time I checked, they ran Massacre in the Sb and possibly 1 main.  Basicly if you control a plains (and you do) and they control a swamp (and they do) Long plays it for free, and it kills off your 2/2's (which I think was what your plan was.  On the other hand, if you can get censor online before they tutor up the Massacre, then you may have some time to work with.  However, Long playing all thoes draw 7's isn't terribly concerned with not being able to search it's library, and one of thoes draw7's is going to hit Massacre I think.  Can any Long players confirm/tell me I'm full of crap in concerns with this?

Cheers
Mike

Long, and many other decks run Massacres in the board, if not Pyroclasm. This is so they can get rid of Meddling Mage, (and all of your other guys) as well as the new Aven Mindcensor. Unfortunately, Mindcensor scoops to Darkblast, Lava Dart, Pyroclasm, and Massacre, which makes it significantly weaker.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Looks like Sacrifice Children is winning. One thing before I go on: Mox Monkey is the nickname for Kataki, isn't it. He is awesome. Anyways, my board is looking something like the following:

3 Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Orim's Chant
1 Pithing Needle (which is foily)
2 Hearth Kami
2 Ronom Unicorn

I find this board underwhelming at best. I don't know precisely what to do, but if anyone actually has a list of this deck that they'd like to share, I would like to see it. I am now a part of the Vintage community (hopefully), so I think that if I can discount SOME suggestions, I'm in the okay-area. However, there is 1 weapon that I have not considered: surprise. I have only mentioned it briefly, but I think that if I can turn Plateau (the "bad" dual) into a weapon, maybe someone will make some play mistakes. I really don't know, but please help! Cheers!

[zeus-online]

Mox Monkey is the nickname for Kataki, isn't it.

Sorry to disappoint you, mox monkey is Gorilla shaman!

...Having played dragon a bit i can tell you that the worst thing is a quick clock backed by multiple different sets of disruption...Fx.:
Grunt + Crypt + StP.....Also, it's significantly harder to deal with permanents then spells when playing dragon.
1 Piece of disruption will almost never be enough.

/Zeus

[Kataki_Rulez]

Ah thanks for the update on slang! I know what Dragon is like (grumble), it has consistently (this is on average) killed me turn 3. The occasional turn 2, at only a few turn 1 kills (land, 2 moxen, Putrid Imp, Discard dragon, animate dead, thanks for playing). Mind you, that has only happened a few times! How do you mess with Dragon combo? I know for a fact that my local meta, dragon is a small percentile, mind you, it is the percentile that top eight's consistently. Maybe I should have more board hate for things like dragon. Against "Rogue" decks, I can usually hold my own (Gorilla Shaman is mad beats! Seriously, once I went all wha-chow on this guy, and beat him with Mox Monkey in 20 turns!) Anyways, thanks for the help, the current build of the deck is pretty good, but I will probably switch the spree's for Children or Fanatic (please tell me which one is better). The board, as it turns out, really does need 8 red counters and 3 Enchantment-kill, so please help me with the remaining 4 slots. If you have another deck, like Dragon, feel free to post it and let everyone else know how to fight with it!

[A.-1.]

I'm also no expert on Long but Pitch Long (which is just B/U) may have Massacre/Virtue's Ruin or Thrashing Wumpus board.
2.5 Grim is the simliar to Pitch Long in board options.
5 color Grim may or may not have Thrashing Wumpus board or possibly some Underground Seas and Massacres board but more likely Pyroclams since it has all options from all colors.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Hello, everybody! Thanks, once again. My board is the following:

3 Seal of Cleansing
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
1 Orim's Chant
1 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawa's Jitte

This is probably what I'm going to stick with. I just have a question: What is The Mountains Win Again? Could someone post a list? I need it!

[someone_unimportan]

Being moderately competent with Long I will tell you this: Long is EXTREMELY concerned about the Mindcensor if it does not have the Massacre/Pyroclasm/EtW in its hand. Its outs become: Yawg's Bargain/Will and draw 7's IN HAND. Shutting down the Grim Tutor engine of the deck hurts sooooo much. On the flip side, because you aren't running moxen currently, 2W will be too slow to matter the vast majority of the time. On the subject of Children: I'm not sold on this card as a good defense against Long. It doesn't actually stop them from doing anything but kill you, so they can simply sculpt their perfect Mind's Desire -> Yawgmoth's Will  -> 19 Copies of Tendrils (Only need nineteen because you have to sac children while you still have 2 life). Being R/W I'm not sure there's much better, unfortunately. Both Mindcensor and Pyro Pillar are better functionally against Long, but they are both a little slow without moxen. The Orim's Chants are probably your best bet against combo, unfortunately they are sad times against other decks (fish, ichorid, oath, CS, although they are somewhat decent against Gifts).

EDIT: Lolz, I'm being stupid. Add Chalice of the Void. You aren't playing moxen, and Chalice for 0 is amazing against combo in conjunction with wasteland. Null rod is good times against Control, and Combo as well.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Chalice>Children? I don't know about this one, because chalice for 0 can be very bad on my ichorid matchup...I'll have to see.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Hey, everyone! I have one word: GLOWRIDER! It seems to be really good combo hate... I'm thinking: board the Pillars, run 3 Glowrider maindeck, or vice versa. I am also wondering: What should I run as my last 3 slots, I've narrowed it down to the following

1) 3 Jitte
2) 2 Jitte 1 Sacred Ground
3) 3 Sacred Ground
4) 1 Maze of Ith, 2 Sacred Ground
5) 3 Sphere of Resistance
6) 3 Glowrider maindeck, put the Pillars in the sideboard
7) 3 Pillars maindeck, 3 Glowrider in the sideboard.

It's one of those, tell me your preference. Also, you are the more experienced players, so:
Chalice or Children?

[Stamford]

Im sorry, but I really have to tell you this.

Regardless of how much you hate paper jewelery that tap for mana and cost $200 and above.

You still would run them for greater deck consistency.

Even though you run hate for your own artifacts, they can help power out your threats much much faster, which is very relevant in a format where turn 1-2 plays matter alot.

Shutting down 3-4 of your own artifacts in exchange for speed and 10-11 of your opponent's artifacts is a very good incentive.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Yes, that boat has sailed. Plus I have a few friends here in Canada telling me not to run moxen, so just chill. Anyways, I now have one slot left in my board, it's going to be either a Jitte or a Maze of Ith, or a Pithing Needle. Everyone, which one?

[Myriad Games]

What is The Mountains Win Again? Could someone post a list? I need it!

I like to think I know something about The Mountains Win Again, having guided the deck through continual testing, development, and evolution since June 2005. The build you have posted certainly looks like an interesting concoction. One of my favorite characteristics of TMWA is that it can change so rapidly to adjust to a metagame. Check out the official thread and let me know if you have any follow up questions.